Turtle Goddess she of the hard shell soft

[uRworthy]

Oh J, I am so sorry. You know, we do the very best we can. We love them and are there for them.

But as with everything else in life, sometimes you cannot predict what is going to happen.

It is easy to look back and say we should have done something different. But when you are in the thick of it, you just do what feels right.

Your daughter knows you love her. That is what is most important.

And she is on her own journey. Sometimes bumps in the road forces you to turn the wheel. I hope this is what happens for her.

Hang in there, sweetie. This too shall pass.

[Whiterose]

I'm sorry about your daughter.....I hope she has a chance to think while in jail. We do the best we can and after that it's up to them.....hard for us parents to accept/understand their paths sometimes

hugs

[RosaLinda]

Oh J, that is awful. Please know that nothing you did brought D19 to this place. It's more a function of getting in with the weong crowd and personal choice. 

Hopefully a few days in jail will wake her AND H up to what is real and important in life! My older son got thrown in jail for a week after some experimenting with drugs and reckless driving, and was petrified straight by the experience. 

Snodderly Cadet is absolutely correct. An individual came begin a mlc and somewhere in the crisis something will snatch them out of it, i.e., will delay the process. Sometimes, it is a death, a health issue w/that individual or w/the spouse, child leaving home, but it is something that interrupts the process. Later on, they will pick up where they left off and generally it is far worse than the first time around. This is one of the reasons that we caution posters about trying to rush the process and/or try to shock them out of the crisis. The best thing that any of us can do is to allow them cruise through their crisis on their on, in their own time. It is far, far better that way.

Thanks for posting this Snodderly. It goes a long way to help us stand and not impede their spinning at all

J I'm so sorry you H's crisis will be worse second time around. My H's is too. He previously only had EAs and now moved into the big time with his PA. And is 20x nastier at times, and 20x more depressed. Hang in there, you are your family's rock J. 

[mizjjd]

Hello all. Thank you for stopping by, thank you for your good wishes and prayers.

Snodderly: Some children are just h@ll bent to do stupid things and not think about what the consequences are. Sometimes it is a cry for help and/or attention.
Yes. D19 had a speech problem as a child. Diagnosed as "apraxia", unusual because often that diagnosis is part of a larger problem such as retardation. D19 only presented with the speech issue, quite severe at the beginning, she was deemed only 10% intelligible at age 3. Years and years of therapy have her to the point now that she is probably 90% intelligible; often people think she has an "accent". While there was never any diagnosed learning or mental development issue, she always struggled in school. But, too, as a 5 year old the disparity between her math and comprehension skills was such that she was nearly considered savant. All this could certainly have contributed to "acting out" and behavior issues.

uRworthy: But as with everything else in life, sometimes you cannot predict what is going to happen.
THAT is probably a very good thing. Just imagine, if we all knew on our wedding day what we know now...
And she is on her own journey. Sometimes bumps in the road forces you to turn the wheel. I hope this is what happens for her.
I very much like your analogy uR.

WhiteRose ~ thank you for your kind words

RosaLinda, I should have thought of you when I asked Snodderly about others who had MLC double dippers. Actually, and this may be hard to believe, my H is less nasty now. Before he was very in-my-face arrogant and rude. Now, he seems to just be a general donkey. Thank you RL for sharing about your son. I hope for similar results for D19.

************************************************************************

Just back from S17B's soccer game. They lost, 3 - 2 with just a minute and a half to go.

I am ready for bed, fastfoodland is 8:30 tomorrow AM.

H should return sometime tomorrow. I am feeling rather annoyed at him right now.

I can visit D19 on Tuesday after work, for a half an hour. I am allowed to bring her 6 pairs of white socks, 6 pair of white underwear, 6 white bras without underwire, one set of thermal underwear, and a bible.

She phoned me just as I was driving to fastfoodland. She tried to play it all casual, no big deal.

She was crying by the end of the call.

The 5 minute phone call cost me $10. I put $25 on her commissary account which cost me $5.88 to do. So, I spent $40 in about 10 minutes today. And then drove 80 miles round trip for S17B's soccer game which cost me $5 to enter. About $60 gone with the wind... lol.

Goodnight all.

[beatrice]

Hi, what is known of MLC usually goes back to issues in childhood. Your daughter, with very high level math, and comprehension issues in early childhood, was probably very very frustrated as a small child. She is acting out now, not bottling it up. Hard for you, but maybe, just maybe better for her longer term mental health. My middle son was brilliant at math but fortunately very articulate. But he has friends who are much less so.

I hesitate to put everything on MLC but I do not think the way our husbands behaved when their kids were in adolescence and early adult life helps them at all. Growing up is hard enough without a parent acting like a goat!

As for the money you spend on kids - my goodness yes.

What subjects is your daughter specializing in? Is she playing to her strengths?

[mizjjd]

What subjects is your daughter specializing in? Is she playing to her strengths?

She takes no subjects, she is not in school. She did manage to graduate high school last year (2012) - after attending summer school. She was not able to "walk" in May. But she hung in there and got her diploma which impressed me.

She has not been tested academically speaking for quite some time. I would think the disparity is no longer there because she is not able to do the higher forms of math. As a child she could do simple addition/subtraction of up to 5 digit numbers at lightening speed. She was stymied by the more complex maths, nearly didn't make it through geometry. But, her comprehension I would say is now nearly average. School is not "easy" for D19 the way it is for her brothers and she has never made it a priority. She is what I understand to be a kinesthetic learner.

Since high school she has toyed with the idea of college, trade school and the Navy. All while partying and being unable to hold a job for more than a few months. Life is also not "easy" for D19.

I like your perspective that perhaps D19's life issues will be mitigated by my efforts. (Too annoyed with H right now to give him credit. But I guess I should. Because I think he actually did the best he could. He and D19 are very similar, they both flee sitches that are difficult or uncomfortable. And H is still "here". If I look at it that way, I have to admit he is actually "trying". His skill set just isn't good. What irked me this time was that after getting the "D19's in jail" text late Fri night he was up early Sat morning to go to the casino. Didn't say a word about D19. Then, a text from him "You should see about bond for D19" URGH!! Sigh. I felt he "should" have stayed here. Looked into things WITH me, and if options were available, been HERE to help. But, that's foolish. I should know better because that is not his style and never has been.)

Everyone of us has limitations. As I recognize more of both my own and H's I realize it comes down to deciding if, despite those limitations, a future is viable.

Thanks for stopping by Bea

[RosaLinda]

"He and D19 are very similar, they both flee sitches that are difficult or uncomfortable. And H is still "here". If I look at it that way, I have to admit he is actually "trying". His skill set just isn't good. "

This is an excellent insight J. You're right that this is probably why H went to the casino after getting that message about D19 being in jail, and just texted instructions to you about her bail. If this is how he has always been, the fact that he is still with you reveals a lot about his committment to you. 

"Everyone of us has limitations. As I recognize more of both my own and H's I realize it comes down to deciding if, despite those limitations, a future is viable."

Some of us have more limitations than others, and some are harder to deal with than others. If you were happy for over 10 years J, between MLC parts A and B, why would you even consider that your future is not viable? You may decide you no longer want it, but it IS viable. 

You are going through an awfully difficult time right now with very little support or back up, and are holding up great, following thru, making good choices and doing what needs to get done. YOU are one of Portia's Diamond Divas J, i am proud to be able to call you my friend. 

[mizjjd]

...the fact that he is still with you reveals a lot about his committment to you.
Sometimes I think this too.

I met H in Florida. He had left Canada with the intention of buying a sailboat, finding a deserted island and living out his days. He had no contact with his parents & sisters, no contact with his ex's & kids. He got as far as buying the sailboat - but then we met.

So I'd say he's a runner first class. And the fact that he's still here after 21 years (22 years T in October, M anniversary is in March) does say something about his commitment - if not to me, then to our family. Plus, he's still here after me asking him to leave 4 times, and after OW's H received my letter.

If you were happy for over 10 years J, between MLC parts A and B, why would you even consider that your future is not viable? You may decide you no longer want it, but it IS viable.

I guess I was happy "enough". See, H works like this. This is a small thing, but isn't the devil always in the details?

Saturday morning H woke up at 5AM to go gambling. I was NOT excited about the hour.

H says to me "You don't have to get up if you don't want to. I can make my own breakfast, unless you want to." He takes off his pajamas and marches his white-tailed rump into the bathroom. I watch his exit wondering if it is deer season yet, then shrug and get back into bed.

He finishes his shower. "What! I thought you'd have my breakfast made by now!"

J "You said you could make your own."

H "Don't you want to make me breakfast?"

J, closes eyes, counts to 10. "H, if you would like me to make you breakfast all you need to do is ask nicely."

H, "Well don't if you don't want to."

J rolls over, snuggles in.

H, "But J...."

J, "H, you could say I'd like it if you made me breakfast. Or, it'd be great if you made my breakfast... you know, something nice."

H, "I'd love it if you'd make my breakfast."

J, getting up, "There, was that so hard?"

H, "Yes. I don't want to be beholden to you."

Just so you know, pre DB J would have already had the breakfast made.

The other night H asked me to turn on the fry cooker because he was trying an "experiment" with a recipe. I turned on the fry cooker and resumed watching TV. Over an hour later, getting ready to go upstairs H realizes the fry cooker is still on. "J! You were supposed to remind me! I can't believe you left the cooker on all that time!" And yes, he was seriously upset with me for not reminding him. It was my fault. In H's world everything is my fault.

I now know, drumroll please, ITS NOT ALL MY FAULT. Hah. So there.

Sooo RL, idk about the viability of more life with H. And none of this even touches OW. OW = DEALBREAKER.

The cat's out of the bag, there's no putting it back. Lol, can you imagine, my H having to go through the rest of his life asking nicely for things!!

And that's just the beginning of my new standards. Even w/out OW what "was" is no longer viable.

i am proud to be able to call you my friend.


Right back atcha

[albamarie]

H, "Yes. I don't want to be beholden to you."

Hi Miz,

My H says this same line since MLC started, after 24 yrs those little words cut like a knife. It showed the real separation he had made between us. Sometimes I think what comes out of his mouth hurt more than his actions, that's when I found it easier to detach.

You describe what I'm struggling with about the viability of life with H, I am also not even touching the subject of OW, my M alone and who he is today is plenty to give me pause. How long do they continue to not "be there" as some sort of a viable person you would consider having a life with, and do we have the time and patients to deal with the mistrust that trails behind them?

I get your H being nice comment...where does that go? Mine won't ask...and if I don't seem to comply by mind reading, he's surprised.

It seems as if every little act of kindness or reaching out makes them recoil thinking we are now showing love and oh my goodness we can't have that! Like we as spouses will once again gain control of their minds and lead them as children.

Idk, I do believe in the process, I have seen H go thru the phases, but I can def see how it is for us more than for them. We as lbs go thru our own sort of waking up and moving forward and in the end I can see how we become smart enough and strong enough to be in control of our own destiny.

And, take control away from the MLCer. My motto....stop letting the crazy guy control my house

I like your new standards...I'm right there with ya

[RosaLinda]

"Sooo RL, idk about the viability of more life with H. And none of this even touches OW. OW = DEALBREAKER.

The cat's out of the bag, there's no putting it back. Lol, can you imagine, my H having to go through the rest of his life asking nicely for things!!

And that's just the beginning of my new standards. Even w/out OW what "was" is no longer viable."

Holy cow J. I see what you mean; you have some big decisions to make here I think. BUT...... to quote myself (LOL I never did that before) "couldn't facing the life changes and issues that enable a person to escape from MLC as a whole intact improved (I would assume moral) individual, also cause that individual to see that serial cheating is wrong?" Bringing that to the next level, to happily spend the rest of his life asking nicely for things? To be willing to be beholden to you because you love each other and that is what married people do? My vote is YES.

Do you have a DB coach or IC? Someone you can pour your heart out to? A FB alias?