NEW LIFE / NEW ME

[Fartiltre]

Sandi,

Thanks a million!

I am now LRT! After reading your posts I considered cancelling the concert W, MIL, SIL MIL friend I attended this evening but I didn’t!
Reasons: First off all I am properly the biggest Leonard Cohen fan in northern Europe and this could be my one and only chance to see him live! He was awesome! Secondly I wanted to show off the new me to MIL and SIL – I believe I did well. Finally I wanted to see how W would act around me. She was all touching and nice. I didn’t respond to her touching once, I followed your advice on the answering, I didn’t accept her invitation to meet up at her house and when we split up I gave her money for the trainticket and insisted she took them.
I am ready and I am all yours – Please do guide me as this progresses.


XW1

You asked if this would work against your goal to R. Are you referring to the ski trip or all this communication from XW1? Don't you find it rather odd that your XW has become so chummy? Has she ever invited you on a trip after the D and you and present W were together?

She has never invited me on anything like this! I don’t believe there is anything to it but I get your point – I will call her tomorrow and tell her that I won’t go. I don’t want to get chummy with her at all – I wanted to please S10. I wanted to give him a chance to have mum and dad at the same time. We D when he was 9 months so he never tried this – he talks about it a lot. I will go to the movies since I promised S10 this and then I will back off and decline invitations.

I don't trust a females who do what she's doing.

I get you and by the way I also have a trust issue around women these days

I never understood the coaches advice, but I try not to go directly against what they say. If I recall, your W's LL was PT, and she responded positively, instead of jerking away. So, look at it this way, you followed coach's advice and gave the PT and tried to make the R what you thought your W wanted. But she stuck with her decision to leave you, take the kids, and breakup the family. So now, things need to take a sharp turn.

She is PT and QT.
She did stick with her decision but I have felt the doubt in her so many times. I believe (perhaps because I need to) that these months living together has put me in a better position. I have worked myself and we have shared many wonderful moments with the children. Hopefully this will work in her memory – if she remembers.
Coach’s advice and the advice from different people in here have kept me confused. It seems like there are many different angles towards DB. I wouldn’t have been ready or able to go LRT before now…not while so confused and living together. I feel much stronger now. I feel prepared.

You are getting the shot right now! You just can't see it b/c neither of you have completed necessary steps in order for a R to be completed. We are going to work on those steps, right?

Oh, yes! I f you will guide me and lecture me on this one I promise you a capable and listening student.
You properly already knows this from following me but I do need strict rules, I need clarity, I need to feel prepared – properly like most men. I need to be able to put my tools in small boxes so I can find the right one when I need it.
Do you get me on this one?

And.....if you have no doubt she's attracted to you, it may be very soon indeed. From what I have read over the years, "most" WAW's aren't feeling the attraction.

I believe I wrote that if it wasn’t for our history….I don’t believe she is attracted to me right now but if she is not “one and gone” then I believe she could be in the future.

Well, I guess I got confused over the wording in her letter and the pre-bomb & post-BD. She is nice, she likes the PT, and is attracted to you, but writes this message that sounds pretty clear she isn't interested. Maybe I can't keep up with what's going on.

She didn’t write anything to me. You properly got confused due to my bad writing. The statements from 23. July was sayings.

Oh yeah, and men get sucked into the WAW telling them they want to be best friends and continue to do things together "for the children". It is one of the worst traps for a LBH'S who is grasping at any straw, and thinking he can be her friend and that will lead to a reconciliation. I have not seen it happen like that yet! I won't get into all the reasons right now, but you don't want to be her BFF hanging around like girl friends.

This has also gotten me a little confused. I have read many posts mentioning friendly stage but then again I haven’t kept track of how many of these that ended with R.
I won’t get sucked into this! I will be very hard on me refusing the children time with us both but I get you and I will do it to the best of my abilities.

You are in a new position now. You showed her your changes, before she left but she still chose to leave and not work on the R. From this point on, you must look at it with that mindset.

Will do!

Don't fear her getting mad, b/c she probably will, but when you do tell her this...you pick up the reigns to what you want in a future R with her. Understand? She won't like it and may spew, but that is okay. You don't have to stand there and listen.

I am not sure I understand this “reigns”-thing. Perhaps it is due to my English – I don’t know. Would you clarify for me?
I haven’t got a problem with her spewings anymore. I have left convos when she has started spewing for the last two months or more. Should I still validate her feelings?

That is another trap. Don't discuss it with anyone. If you must give an answer, simply say, "She made the choice to leave me, not the other way around. Now I move forward.". Then end the conversation right there. Refuse to listen or answer any more. She may try to have someone to intervene for her, but don't play that game.

I would simply love to give this answer – I am looking forward to doing it in fact! I have been told in here not to tell this and just to say something like “We are going through some rough times” or something like that! Is this change also due to LRT?

I think you need to stay away from your present W's relatives for a while. It helps keep down confusion, confronting nosy questions, etc.

Her cousin is a very dear friend of mine. We have discussed the sit once and then agreed to leave it be. I would simply hate to break of friendship with him. I am much closer with him than she is – I believe. I haven’t contacted her relatives but him and I won’t.
Since I started serious GAL I have made two new buddies. The issue is that these guys are both married two women from Ws mothersgroup. They have asked some questions but I do not discuss sit with them. We go to the movies, meet up for cardgame, help each other and so on. Beside these two guys and Ws cousin I see no problems in staying away.

Defriend her!

This is hard on me because this is an action. I have never defriended anybody and I don’t know anybody that has ever done that. Could this be cultural and thereby something not to do?

Make your own plans for the kids to have their birthday parties with at your house without the W..

I will do this but it will be difficult. My family is either broken up or dead – I have no relatives. I do have a lot of friends and I will start now trying to arrange something for Christmas. Birthdays will be easier since friends will attend if I invite them. This will make her spew MAJOR bolts of lightning so I will have to be prepared.

The goal is not about upsetting her, or making yourself look mean.

She will properly look at this from a different angle and that’s why the following will be extremely important.

When you do see her or speak with her, you continue to be polite and even "warmly" if possible….

Could you clarify warmly? Do you mean hugs? Not entering her house won’t come out as warmly IMO….

She thought you would continue to be her buddy while she pursued a different life. I don't think she ever thought you would cut her out of your life.

She is still living in this! I saw it tonight at the concert as I have seen it for so long!

Of course her emotions will run every which way before she starts considering moving back. Long before that happens, she will start taking relationship temperature checks just to assure herself that she still has you in her back pocket, emotionally. But, that is a ways off.

I agree! I have been following T1000 for a long time and read you advices in his thread. I hope I will be able to handle myself and reject her if my sit ever goes as far as Ts.

This will not be the easiest thing you've had to do, but I believe you will be a little surprised to discover the strength you will gain from this plan. Keep your eyes on the goal.

I will keep my eyes on the goal and I will do my best to follow through. I know there’s a rough and difficult time ahead but I also believe that if I am prepared for things to come I will cope!




I think I am starting to get the picture but I still need to get myself settled in this and that will properly take some weeks or months. As I read the principals of this I am to avoid contact if possible and if this is not possible then be nice, pleasant and attractive when I talk to W. If this is the path I will have to work a little more on my code of conduct.
Did you have any additions to my list?

I won’t initiate any contact unless urgent matters regarding children.
I will refuse any invitation except Christmas, birthdays, first school day and likewise.
I won’t answer her calls and since I don’t have and don’t want VM –she will just have to text or mail me.
I won’t enter her home
If she asks direct questions I will answer them in short sentences
I will ask her to get the rest of her belongings out of MY house
I will still be kind, smiling and nice (but short in words) when we talk
If W at some point asks me something I won’t answer until I am sure that my answer is one that doesn’t regard my wish for R
I won’t accept the key to her house that she wants me to have and I want her key to my house back.
I will remove her pictures except the one on the children’s family wall.

What about the scout-issue:

D6 is a girl scout on Wednesdays for 5PM – 6.30PM and this present a problem. Scouting is 15 min from here and this means that D4 will have to spend an hour in a car and that our eating time will be very late.
When W asked me about D6 attending I told her that this could be a problem. W got disappointed and a little angry. In fact she ended up telling me that I have to call D6 and tell her that she can’t scout because of me. (Funny when compared to the not blaming her for BD) I instantly backed out when she got angry and just told her that we can discuss this matter at a different time.

At the moment I feel like telling W that this won’t work. Dinner will be very late and bedtime therefore as well – doesn’t work on a Wednesday! What do you think?

I have read so much about validating feelings - should I continue doing this in your opinion! If she spew about me not wanting to spend time together then go: "I can see why you feel that way but....." or something like that?



Well, Sandi! Thanks don’t cover my gratefulness towards you at the moment and my English vocabulary isn’t enough – so thanks!!!!
I hope you will guide me and work with me in the time to come – I am all yours!

F

[sandi2]

How long has it been since she stayed the first night in her new place? I really, REALLY wish you would have started this path the day she left b/c it would have been less complicated. However, it is still, IMO, the way you need to go.

When I say less complicated, look at this trip to the concert with her and her family. Since you have waited till now to use the LRT, she may be more confused by your actions to step away from her...."now". B/c you were acting like her buddy. See what I mean? So, it still works, but may take longer. Just want you to understand.

Okay, about your XW1 and you wanting to show son what it is like to have both parents together. My D left her H when she was pregnant, so I know how your S wants the two of you together. However, if you were to start going out as a "family", it would up his hopes that his parents would get remarried. IMHO, it prolongs and adds to the inevitable disappointment he will experience when it doesn't occur. Lease don't get his hopes up, only to disappoint him later.

In response to the different advice you have received on the board, I don't want to offend anyone in what I am about to say. First and foremost, my advice is not foolproof in every case. I only have a small window to see what the poster reveals. If you notice, the majority of newcomers are other left behind spouses. The majority are just like you......new. They can identify with your pain. They can tell you what has not worked in their stitch. They can try to encourage each other. Very few members are WAS who R their M are here on the board trying to help LBS. Right? That is one reason I stick around b/c you all do not get many who will tell you what works or doesn't work from the view point of the WAS. So, what I'm saying is you have to take in account how old the person is, how long they have been M, how long they have been on the board, and which side of the fence they experienced. I know there have been sometimes I would be talking to some LBH, trying to explain what doesn't work with a WAW.......then some other LBS newcomer would come along and say just the opposite, or near about it. I sure understand how you could get confused. I have read some people's report of what their coach advised that I did not,agree with, but the coach has been trained, so I usually back off rather than oppose. Just bear in mind the people on the board are not professional. The majority Re in the same boat with you.

"She didn’t write anything to me. You properly got confused due to my bad writing. The statements from 23. July was sayings."

It is confusing! I suggest you not write about pre-bomb times or something that she said a couple of months ago. Maybe this will cut back on the updated facts. Remember how confusing T100's posts became b/c he would write an entire thread of several ways mhe was THINKING of saying something to his W? I believe he has stopped doing that and it helps a lot.

"This has also gotten me a little confused. I have read many posts mentioning friendly stage but then again I haven’t kept track of how many of these that ended with R."

But that is usually after there was a lot of fighting between the couple, or the WAS was having nothing to do with the LBS. what I want you to see here is there needs to be a break.....a gap......a space of time......before a couple is ready for that stage. Your W has been a little different, but as we've said, you have made things really easy for her. She is wanting to go to concerts with you. That is unusual, compared to others. And if you want to continue as things are right now, just say so. I can't promise you that your W will R with you by doing it this way. I believe you stand a better chance of R the M, but you have to make that decision and own it. I don't want you to come back later and say if you had not listen to Sandi you would have R the M. Okay? I am not a professional MC.

"I am not sure I understand this “reigns”-thing. Perhaps it is due to my English – I don’t know. Would you clarify for me?"

Sorry, I forget. It is an expression, like using the reigns to control which way a horse goes. When you have the reigns, you are in control.

"I would simply love to give this answer – I am looking forward to doing it in fact! I have been told in here not to tell this and just to say something like “We are going through some rough times” or something like that! Is this change also due to LRT?"

Yes, that is what you tell people in the beginning. It is part of that general over-all advice passed along on the board. But you have been here long enough so we can specific to your stitch. And, expect some newcomer to come behind me and say not to give answers to friends & relatives. What you need to understand is you are in a different position now than when you first arrived. And, I am not saying you are to get into discussions with her family & friends. I am saying with certain one (like you mentioned) who ask why you aren't spending time with her (or having long chats, or whatever), you can tell them that she chose to end the M and you are moving forward. If they are rude enough to ask you what that means, or other questions....you jthen tell them you aren't going to discuss it any further. Now, do you understand what I am saying? I don't want you to be confused, so ask questions if you are.

Regarding you giving her validation when she is "spewing" at you . I will give that some study, but right now I am thinking the only time you should valadte her is when it has anything with the kids, otherwise, if she spews at you, you shut it down, say "let's not talk about this further", and then end it. I understand the validating when you are trying to get her to stay in the M with you. But after she leaves, I don't think you should have that o. Your list of "to do's". If the she comes around to have a real R with you, then you can go back to the lavaditatiom, I just don't think a lot of men are gifted in this area and they come across in a pathetic way, not saying you did, but some do. Some sound like they doing nothing more than kissing tail.

I need to turn in for the night, I'm really tird. We'll tektite some of these issues as they come,

[hotwheelsaust]

Wow F, you are very lucky to get some serious advice from sandi2. In saying that, good advice to F from you sandi2.

[T1000]

As soon as I read this:
"This will make her spew MAJOR bolts of lightning so I will have to be prepared."

It made me realise how much this is the right path for you right now F.


It's S3's birthday in just over 2.5 weeks. I have agreed to spend the day with S3 and W for his birthday. I am also prepared that it may not happen and the S1's birthday in 1 month might be just me and the kids.

The things that are the hardest to to do are often the most affective. It might feel like the kids are losing out because of your actions but if it well help R with W it should be worth it in the end for the kids.

If your short on relatives for kids birthdays take them somewhere fun like a theme park, somewhere where other people aren't needed.

W and I have agreed to spend less on the kids this year so we can afford MC. Giving them both parents together is the best gift we could ever give them.

[sandi2]

T1000, you are another example of being in a different shift or position from some other newcomers. You will get a little different advice than F. Each stitch is on different levels, so the advice may shift of be more individually based regarding where you are presently.

[Fartiltre]

Sandi,

Thanks again – I hope you slept well!
I am off to bed soon! I have been helping one of these mutual friends working his garden today – it has been nice. They posted a nice picture of me on FB and at the same time W posted about us attending the concert. This last thing makes me realize how much she needs to tell the world that this was the right decision and properly also that we agree on this….
Weekend is over and tomorrow the girls leave me for 9 days – that’s going to be hard.

How long has it been since she stayed the first night in her new place? I really, REALLY wish you would have started this path the day she left b/c it would have been less complicated.

August 1. was the first night. We have seen each other a few times since then, she has contacted me several times and I think I have only called or contacted her getting back to her. I agree but was advised to stick with the 3-1. I can’t change this now. I don't think my chit-cahtting is nearly as much as I read you - I have withdrawn A LOT! I haven't told her anything about whats going on in my life for two weeks. I have answered her questions but that's it.

When I say less complicated, look at this trip to the concert with her and her family. Since you have waited till now to use the LRT, she may be more confused by your actions to step away from her...."now". B/c you were acting like her buddy. See what I mean? So, it still works, but may take longer. Just want you to understand

Buddy means the same as friend to me and if that’s true I haven’t been her buddy since she moved. It has almost only been practical stuff and children.
I haven’t been hanging around her place – in fact I have only been there at one occation and that was D6 first day at school. She has been here eating once and that was a major mistake. I can clearly see her family-cake-eating on this occasion in the rear view. I haven’t offered my help, my ear or anything except at this occasion so I do hope the fault is not too big.

I agree about the XW1 –matter and I have already called her and told her I wouldn’t go.

I get you on the advice/coaching part and do agree with. Let’s just leave this be – can’t change anything!

It is confusing! I suggest you not write about pre-bomb times or something that she said a couple of months ago. Maybe this will cut back on the updated facts. Remember how confusing T100's posts became b/c he would write an entire thread of several ways mhe was THINKING of saying something to his W? I believe he has stopped doing that and it helps a lot.

I will try to stick with the present and the facts – please 2x4 me if I backslide on this one.

But that is usually after there was a lot of fighting between the couple, or the WAS was having nothing to do with the LBS. what I want you to see here is there needs to be a break.....a gap......a space of time......before a couple is ready for that stage. Your W has been a little different, but as we've said, you have made things really easy for her. She is wanting to go to concerts with you. That is unusual, compared to others. And if you want to continue as things are right now, just say so. I can't promise you that your W will R with you by doing it this way. I believe you stand a better chance of R the M, but you have to make that decision and own it. I don't want you to come back later and say if you had not listen to Sandi you would have R the M. Okay? I am not a professional MC.

I get you on the break/friendly stage – just never read this explanation anywhere. That’s properly just me! I understand it. She is not just wanting to go to concerts – she wants christmas, birthdays, newyear, weekly dinners and this is just what she has told me to my face. I do not want to continue things as they are now and I know you can’t promise me anything. It is my decision to go with your advice and therefore the only one to blame in all of this is me. I don’t know the chances for R but right now I believe a full-blown LRT gives the best chances and that’s my personal belief – I would never ever dream of holding anything from this forum against you or anybody else.

Got you on the reign!

I do believe I got you on the explanation towards her and friends and I will aim my response towards her decision. If she wants clarification I will tell her that I don’t feel like being friends and at the same time that I will not be unfriendly towards her. If friends wants clarification I will tell them that this is what I need to do right now for me to be able to move forward. If they ask further I will end it. I believe the mutual friends and the cousin will accept this answer without holding anything against me…and if they don’t that’s just too bad.
If you agree I will practice this until I got the wordings right. Do you agree?

I will continue validating her feelings around the children. As an example the scouting issue will demand this. She came down hard on me when I told her that I saw problems in regards of D6 attending this and told me that I would have to tell this to D6 and take the blame.
I have practiced validating but I am not very good at it.

A FEW QUESTIONS FROM LAST POST:
Could you clarify on warmly?
What is your thought on the scouting-issue?
Should I hold back on the defriending on FB when circumstances are as written?


F

[Fartiltre]

HWA, T1000

Thanks for pulling and supporting - as always it means a lot!
I have been confused about wich path to choose after she moved out - but now it is clear and that makes me feel calm and good.
Sandi advice has made it all clear to me but I still need to get the rules of conduct in my future doings and sayings sorted out totally.
I will work this and time will be my buddy!

F

[hotwheelsaust]

You will get there F. I believe you have a very good chance with your sitch. Now with help from sandi2 and your ability to follow the rules, it has an even better chance.
Time will be your buddy.

[sandi2]

I'm not sure what you mean about the scouts. What I remember reading, i agreed with you that it was entirely too long for the little one to stay in car. Just b/c your W is telling the kids they can do something, and putting it off on you, does not need to become an issue. State what you will and will not do. In other words, if this was her idea for D to join scouts, but she did not consult with you, then why take responsibility for transporting them and causing stress for the younger D? Your W created the problem so she should be the one to either take responsibility or have the talk with D. She can't just pick and choose the parts that make her look like the great parent and then expect you to do the labor of carrying it out.

Back to something you said,

" agree but was advised to stick with the 3-1. I can’t change this now. "

What do you mean you can't change it? You have to stop any initiating contact. You can't have some percentage of initiating! You are in a different position now. If you initiate contact one time to her three....you might as well forget this whole plan.

You can't deferent her on FB and still have some kind of 3-1 contact rule. That's nuts. (btw, don't defriend her yet.)

Let me know before I continue. It is your life and you aren't here to please me. It won't make me angry and I am not saying you can't listen to anyone but me. I just don't want to spend a lot of time and mental energy if you are going to hang on to initiating contacts. That is not LRT, and it certainly is not showing her you are dropping the rope. Every time you initiate contact, it will set you back to the starting line. It aides her in her cake eating.

"I will continue validating her feelings around the children. As an example the scouting issue will demand this. She came down hard on me when I told her that I saw problems in regards of D6 attending this and told me that I would have to tell this to D6 and take the blame. "

I do not agree with validating her. You said you are not very good at it, and it could make you appear more like you are buttering up your W just to keep her in a better mood. This is another down side for her leaving the R. Why would you validate? And please don't tell me it is b/c somebody gave that advice. Guess what, things are different now.

"Could you clarify on warmly?"

Just disregard that word. It will only add more confusion. I should not have used that term.

[Fartiltre]

Sandi,

What do you mean you can't change it? You have to stop any initiating contact. You can't have some percentage of initiating! You are in a different position now. If you initiate contact one time to her three....you might as well forget this whole plan.

I can’t change the past – that’s what I meant! I was only referring to what is done is done….
I don’t and I won’t initiate contact – I follow the rules that are in my list to the best of my abilities.
Sorry that I was unclear!

You can't deferent her on FB and still have some kind of 3-1 contact rule. That's nuts. (btw, don't defriend her yet.)

The same applies here – 3-1 rule is gone!! Now it is 1000-0 unless something about children.

I'm not sure what you mean about the scouts. What I remember reading, i agreed with you that it was entirely too long for the little one to stay in car.

I have given this a lot of thoughts since I received several comments on this one. I will tell W that I think it isn’t good for D4 and D6 to eat so late, get late to bed and so on. I will also tell her that this is the reason for me not promising to take D6 to scout. If she wants me to take the blame I believe I will tell that this is due to her choices and not mine and if she wishes that I state this to the children I will do so.

I do not agree with validating her. You said you are not very good at it, and it could make you appear more like you are buttering up your W just to keep her in a better mood. This is another down side for her leaving the R. Why would you validate? And please don't tell me it is b/c somebody gave that advice. Guess what, things are different now.

It has to do with advice given to me….sorry to say. I would validate to show that I am understanding guy. I understand that things are different but you told me to be pleasant when I talk to her – I believe validating adds to pleasant – am I wrong?

I am confused about how to act when I speak to her and meet her!
I get the few words and the being kind but could you write more about this issue?
What about the 37 rules – are they also gone? Do I need a new set of rules?

F