NEW LIFE / NEW ME

[lovethehub]

Hi F!

Sounds like you are doing okay and I am happy to hear that. I agree with Sandi2, your W has no reason not to be nice to you because you have made this very easy for her.

It does seem that your W is going to need to miss you and understand that things are different now if anything is going to change. I am glad you aren't going to accept every invitation - even though it is good for the girls, if she is cake eating she has no reason to want to come home. It is important for the children that you have the R you do, that you keep in touch and know what is going on. It is going to be important for your M that she miss you and feels the impact that things are different. She needs time to feel this and reflect on it. At some point it seems you should be pulling back more than you have. Sandi2?

[sandi2]

Yep, I agree totally.

Btw F, I hate these auto spellers. I had typed the word confusion in that post, but I think it was changed by my IPad to something else. Anyway.....

I would like to go back to something hotwheels said when we were talking about being too nice to the WAW. He brought up about being too eager to please. I believe a man can be nice and still hold his head high b/c he has not compromised his boundaries. However, once you get over into that area of being too eager to please your WAW, then you are in danger of her seeing you as a doormat. You guys cannot imagine what a turn-off it is for a WAW to see her H jumping through hoops of fire just to please her. It usually draws her disrespect and disgust to the point she can hardly be civil to him.

That is why I am always talking about having her respect for you as a man, first, is more importantant than anything else. Being her doormat only increases her disrespect for you. And, btw, a woman can get angry at her H and still respect him as a man. If the anger is not over issues of you not being a man. Does that make sense?

If she respects you, then there is a lot of hope of having her to feel in love with you again. But if she doesn't respect how you are as a "man", she won't be able to have those in love feelings.

So, for whoever is reading this, you need to focus on how you are showing your manliness around her and in your daily life, rather than ways of pleasing her while she is a WAW.

[Makingchanges]

Great advice sandi2
Any guys that need help in that department there is a lot of good info on theartofmanliness.com Sorry mods if that was a no-no; I think its a great site

[Fartiltre]

Yesterday W and Ds came here in the morning to pack down D6s aquarium and move it to Ws. I had cleaned it and bought four new fish for D6. I don’t want the aquarium here so all I could do was to help it off the best way possible.

I haven’t seen the Ds since Monday so big hugs. They simply loved the room I made for them – even W liked the ideas I put into this. I haven’t involved myself in decorating before, since my ideas have always been rejected – now I decide and it works perfectly. I am working through the entire house over the months to come.

I have made a big mosaic of pictureframes in different colors on a wall. The children get to choose the pictures for frames in their personal color. S10 has gone with soccer players, heroes, D4 with Hello kitty, backyardigans – you get the idea! They have put their heroes in and then I have reserved two colors for me to put family pictures in. I looks like a million! I bought the frames in IKEA and put them on the wall with Velcro so I can easily take them down and change the picture which by the way I Google and then print. There you got it – easy to copy but put a small F in the corner for me
I loved the expression on Ws face when she saw this!

I have gotten some of my things into the house that she has moved out. Things I like but have agreed to move since she doesn’t. I like the things being back. I also bought a robot vacuum cleaner. I have suggested this for years but W resented this idea. D4 asked about it today and I showed it – it works to an extend that even W could see.
I like working the house and the garden.

I didn’t reach out for a hug when they arrived – I simply went directly for the Ds. She walk-by-touched me twice and kissed me on the cheek when we said goodbye later. Coach told me to continue the touching but yesterday I didn’t feel like and at the same time I wanted to focus on the children.

I helped packing the aquarium and then we went off to her place. She was eager to get the girls to show me the house. She is definitely proud of the house but that must be the fog and a few things hit me while there:
- The house is the opposite of her stated wishes when we were together.
- She is totally blind to all thing things that she will miss like space, air, silence etc.
- Presents from me are all over the house.
- She is good at decorating so it will be cozy but for now she has a long way to go.
- She is now in the city with all its advantages.

We installed the aquarium and then she drove me to the triathlon. I couldn’t do it because of medical issues but went there to cheer on my buddies. These two guys are both married to ladies from Ws mothers group. One of those ladies is one of Ws best friends.
They finished the race and we all met up at one of them. Them – two couples with children and mutual friends to me and W – and me single. We made a barbecue and just had a wonderful afternoon. They – especially the women – asked about how I was doing and I just kept my PMA high and avoided answering anything.

All along this day I have been thinking how much Ds and W would have loved being there!

It was so nice seeing the girls again – I miss them so much! SO MUCH!

I feel like I have been living in a bowl for five months and that somebody just removed it! I miss the good times and my family but I do feel good!

Today I am off to a concert with Ws cousin – it will be great

[Fartiltre]

Sandi & LTH,

Thanks for being here! I feel privileged!
I have a lot of questions and do hope you both will take the time.

Sounds like you are doing okay and I am happy to hear that. I agree with Sandi2, your W has no reason not to be nice to you because you have made this very easy for her.

I do feel okay!
I guess I have made it easy but at the same time I believe I have stood my grounds in regards of not helping her move, the financials, the talk to the children and so on. I do feel I have kept my boundaries but then again it is sometimes hard to evaluate your own sit.
I haven’t worked against her and this could be the reason. I see that now.

It does seem that your W is going to need to miss you and understand that things are different now if anything is going to change.

I agree to this and in here is also one of my big problems!
I understand she got fed up with me! Coach told me that she properly moved out in anger and I understand this as well. She got enough and I pushed her away. This was prior to BD.
Few weeks after BD I changed totally and started working 180s, PMA and all of that and I have done this for five months. I can without any doubt say that if we didn’t have a history she would be attracted towards me today.
But if she is stuck prior to BD this will be almost impossible to R.

On July 23. I gave things a last shot and got this from her:
We have been talking about this over and over
I have been withholding myself so much for the last months.
This has been coming for so long and you didn’t see.
It is not fair that you tell me you feel cheated because you didn’t get the chance.
Funny enough you are not angry in the mornings anymore
IDLY
You have been pursuing me for sex – I don’t believe how you have gotten through these months
I have given you everything you wanted
This already started when before D4 was born.
You have gotten it your way since BD

(You can read the entire post in my previous thread)

She is in the fog and this is not something she will miss.
So how do I make her miss me?
Can I do anything but focus on me, GAL and detach because that’s what I am doing.

Should I address her anger at some point?
For now I feel I shouldn’t address anything at all and just let her be! She is all excited about her new life but in a few days’ vacation ends and that’s when real life will happen. The summer has been beautiful but soon fall will hit. Financials has been easy on her with the new bank but soon daily life and expenses will come.
….and so on!
(This will also hit me but I feel prepared!)

I am glad you aren't going to accept every invitation - even though it is good for the girls, if she is cake eating she has no reason to want to come home.

I won’t and I don’t believe she is cakeeating at the moment. I believe she would like to eat dinner and do familystuff at least once a week but for now I don’t do this. At the same time I wonder if this is exactly what I need to do. It would give me an opportunity to show the new me and for her to realize that children has two parents for a reason.
That’s why I have made the 3-1 rule!
Am I doing wrong?

It is important for the children that you have the R you do, that you keep in touch and know what is going on.

I am doing this. I want to be a part of the children’s life! I am already facing a problem:
D6 is a girl scout on Wednesdays for 5PM – 6.30PM and this present a problem. Scouting is 15 min from here and this means that D4 will have to spend an hour in a car and that our eating time will be very late.
When W asked me about D6 attending I told her that this could be a problem. W got disappointed and a little angry. In fact she ended up telling me that I have to call D6 and tell her that she can’t scout because of me. (Funny when compared to the not blaming her for BD) I instantly backed out when she got angry and just told her that we can discuss this matter at a different time.

I don’t think the scouting will work and in my head I trying to formulate a rule that I might follow. Something like:
I will do all the good I can for the children but doing good for one should not hurt another (to much).
I don’t know if this makes sense and would really like your comments. (It feels like W doesn’t realize that D will have impacts on the children!)

At some point it seems you should be pulling back more than you have.

This is what I am doing right now:
I won’t reach out to W but since I have a history of going silent I won’t go completely dark
I guess I will initiate convo 1 time every time she has initiated 3 times.
I will be pleasant and nice towards her.

How and when should I pull back?

You guys cannot imagine what a turn-off it is for a WAW to see her H jumping through hoops of fire just to please her. It usually draws her disrespect and disgust to the point she can hardly be civil to him.

I fully agree!! I do not feel I am being a doormat. I am still working on my values and boundaries and I do try to stick firmly with these.

If she respects you, then there is a lot of hope of having her to feel in love with you again.

Once again I agree!
At the same time I think the only way I can earn respect is by being me! Focus on me and the children, live a nice life, GAL, be happy, do good in business and life in general – all of that!
Sandi, you told me many times in the beginning that there was no magic-word that would fix this. I looked but I am not doing that anymore. I am working me. Off course I look towards W but I mind my own business and me and I do not try to adjust the me towards her – anymore! So what is left is the hope and the patience.
If you have any suggestions towards actions I should take then please let me know.

How do I earn respect?
How do I go from respect towards feel in love?
How do I show the manliness you talk about?
How do I attract her from here?
Do you believe coach is right about the anger that W feels?

Right now I feel I have all the time in the world and that only two things can wreck this totally. Her falling in love with OM or me with OW. At the same time I have realized that I properly can’t do anything but work on me!


At the end of this long post I have one final question. 25 wrote this in my thread a long time ago:

Your wife has good feelings for you, still. That's a spark we're going to help you nurture in time.

I believe she is right about the feelings but how do I nurture the spark?



Ladies, I feel privileged and grateful that you both once again have taken the time to respond to my sit and give me advice!
I do hope the both of you will help me make out my path!

THANKS!

F

[hotwheelsaust]

F, sounds great what you are doing with the house. I am looking forward to the same thing, based on buying the house off the W. I have so many plans, that weren't looked as being great when they were mentioned ages ago, now I won't have to get anyone's opinion.
I can understand you not wanting to touch/hug the W. I suppose it is one of the ups and downs of the rollercoaster. Sometimes you just don't want to put the effort in.
It is good to hear you are feeling good. Did you google and find a picture of a cow and sheep, drinking beer while watching the sun set?

[Fartiltre]

Concert yesterday was a blast but I wasn’t home until 3 AM and I have been wasted today so my working day has been very inefficient.

W called this morning and asked about the concert. We talked about it and agreed that the concert we will attend next weekend with SIL and MIL hopefully will be as good. Then she asked about D6s first school day tomorrow and how we should plan it. I was in the middle of something and told her I would get back to her in the evening.

I finished work and bought groceries for the next days. I need to plan my shopping when children are here. I don’t want to waste time in a supermarket when they are here. I am in lack of time at the moment – lots of work at the office and at the same time at home. Tomorrow S10 will be here and the day after the Ds.
I should have planned my shopping’s better and will correct this next time.

D6 called me early in the evening on the phone and we talked about tomorrow. I will go to Ws and have breakfast and then we will go together to the school.
After talking to D6 I spoke shortly with W and then D4 told her that she wanted to talk with me with video so we connected on Skype. It was nice talking to the children – very nice!

XW1 called this evening and was talking a lot about this and that – she talked about the good things in singlelife and how she enjoys and has been for 10 years. She has given me this speech before and it is baloney all the way through. (She has been single with a few short breaks since she WAWed me.) She asked how I was doing and if the house was big being alone and so on. I told her I was feeling quite good, but also that I needed to get the house in order and some other practical stuff. I told her that I was sorry that I wasn’t able to plan better around S10 for the moment and that I hoped she understood that I will need some time to settle in to my new life. She said she did and told me that she would gladly help – all I should do was to call her.
I believe she meant good all the way!

I have been missing my family today but I am looking forward until I see them tomorrow.

[hotwheelsaust]

Just a few things F. With regards to the scouts, can you not do the shopping with your youngest daughter while the other daughter is at scouts? What a great time you would have together. You could even pick up some food on the way back so everyone still eats together.
Other thing is have both daughters come shopping with you. Again another great oppurtunity to spend some quality time together, even boring things like shopping.
I think you are right about you XW showing good meaning. Just be careful there that nothing comes from her seeing an opening she could take advantage of.
Take care F. By the way the temperature is getting hot here now. Perfect time to sit, drink, chat and watch the sun going down. Cannot wait until I am home next year, doing that by the pool.

[lovethehub]

I guess I have made it easy but at the same time I believe I have stood my grounds in regards of not helping her move, the financials, the talk to the children and so on. I do feel I have kept my boundaries but then again it is sometimes hard to evaluate your own sit.
I haven’t worked against her and this could be the reason. I see that now.

F, we didn't mean you did anything wrong, we just meant that don't mistake her being so nice to mean something else when she has no reason not to be nice.

I agree to this and in here is also one of my big problems!
I understand she got fed up with me! Coach told me that she properly moved out in anger and I understand this as well. She got enough and I pushed her away. This was prior to BD.
Few weeks after BD I changed totally and started working 180s, PMA and all of that and I have done this for five months. I can without any doubt say that if we didn’t have a history she would be attracted towards me today.
But if she is stuck prior to BD this will be almost impossible to R.

You spent a long time doing 180's, your W sees what you are capable of and knows what you want. Keep up your 180's for you. It may not be too late to R, however, this most likely will not occur until she senses she may LOSE the new, improved F.

We have been talking about this over and over
I have been withholding myself so much for the last months.
This has been coming for so long and you didn’t see.
It is not fair that you tell me you feel cheated because you didn’t get the chance.
Funny enough you are not angry in the mornings anymore
IDLY
You have been pursuing me for sex – I don’t believe how you have gotten through these months
I have given you everything you wanted
This already started when before D4 was born.
You have gotten it your way since BD

Many WAW's feel this way. It most likely took her a long time to get to the point where she was so lonely/angry/sad/frustrated/whatever that she couldn't live that way any longer. It can be even more frustrating when you are finally so fed up you are leaving and that is when the LBS takes notice and shapes up. She sounds angry that this is what you did. She knows you have changed. It really seems like time to give her the space to figure it out, let her see you moving on.

She is in the fog and this is not something she will miss.
So how do I make her miss me?
Can I do anything but focus on me, GAL and detach because that’s what I am doing.

You are focusing on you and GALing, however, you don't seem detached at all. You are in constant contact and still doing many things together.

Should I address her anger at some point?
For now I feel I shouldn’t address anything at all and just let her be! She is all excited about her new life but in a few days’ vacation ends and that’s when real life will happen. The summer has been beautiful but soon fall will hit. Financials has been easy on her with the new bank but soon daily life and expenses will come.
….and so on!

Do not address it. You gave her your apology letter, that is all you can do for now. See what happens as her new life sets in and she is a single mom trying to handle work, school, homework and bills.

I won’t and I don’t believe she is cakeeating at the moment. I believe she would like to eat dinner and do familystuff at least once a week but for now I don’t do this. At the same time I wonder if this is exactly what I need to do. It would give me an opportunity to show the new me and for her to realize that children has two parents for a reason.
That’s why I have made the 3-1 rule!
Am I doing wrong?

She has seen the new you...I cannot say you are doing wrong, this is what your coach is advising. I assume there is a reason although per the books you would normally be detaching and moving on... What does your coach say about why she is recommending this approach?

I am doing this. I want to be a part of the children’s life! I am already facing a problem:
D6 is a girl scout on Wednesdays for 5PM – 6.30PM and this present a problem. Scouting is 15 min from here and this means that D4 will have to spend an hour in a car and that our eating time will be very late.
When W asked me about D6 attending I told her that this could be a problem. W got disappointed and a little angry. In fact she ended up telling me that I have to call D6 and tell her that she can’t scout because of me. (Funny when compared to the not blaming her for BD) I instantly backed out when she got angry and just told her that we can discuss this matter at a different time.

I don’t think the scouting will work and in my head I trying to formulate a rule that I might follow. Something like:
I will do all the good I can for the children but doing good for one should not hurt another (to much).
I don’t know if this makes sense and would really like your comments. (It feels like W doesn’t realize that D will have impacts on the children!)

I agree with the suggestions Hotwheels gave. Scouts is a lot of fun and there will be many things your children will be involved in over the next 10-12 years that will require the schedule to be bent or thrown right out the window. If you don't like the shopping idea (which is great, esp with picking up food to eat on the way home) you can try to find another parent to share driving with - you drive one way, they drive the other. If you don't want to leave D6, hang out. I had a GS Troop for 3 years and often had younger siblings at the meetings and we just included them in anything they were interested in - D6's leader may feel the same way.

Think about it this way...what will be more important in the big picture? D6's scouting memories and the values she will learn or D4's schedule? It will all work and it won't be that bad.

How and when should I pull back?

What does your coach say?

How do I earn respect?
How do I go from respect towards feel in love?
How do I show the manliness you talk about?
How do I attract her from here?
Do you believe coach is right about the anger that W feels?

You earn respect as Sandi2 said be nice but stand up for yourself. Also, have an opinion. Sometimes people think they are being nice/kind by saying 'okay, whatever you want' but it is a huge turnoff.

How do you go from respect to love? You can't, your W has to make that step.

How do I attract her? I have to defer to your coach because she must have a reason for not telling you to pull back.


You need some vets to answer these questions..I am sure they can add a lot more!

[Fartiltre]

LTH,

Thanks for replying!

I am glad that you do not think I did anything wrong – you and Sandi had me worrying there! I am trying to do the best I can so hard these days – in regards of me and in regards of my communication with W.
I feel so busy with all of it these days and do believe I am doing OK.

You spent a long time doing 180's, your W sees what you are capable of and knows what you want. Keep up your 180's for you. It may not be too late to R, however, this most likely will not occur until she senses she may LOSE the new, improved F.

The more I look at my own sit the more hopeless I feel. She seems gone!
I will keep up my 180s for me because I feel good about them and they make me feel good about me. I feel, look, talk, walk and act better than I have done for years and that makes me feel good. I haven’t been able to work my 180s as hard as I would like for the last month or more because of two things. Mainly my medical issues have resulted in a lot of pain and therefore my physical capabilities are less than they used to be. Secondly I have followed advice from Sandi2 about not fixing everything. I do also feel good about my GAL these days.
In fact I simply just feel good except for W, Ds and family being gone!

It really seems like time to give her the space to figure it out, let her see you moving on.

What should I do to show her this?

You are focusing on you and GALing, however, you don't seem detached at all. You are in constant contact and still doing many things together.

I believe I am giving her the time and space I can without being unpleasant or rude! I do not initiate contact that much – W does! I don’t believe there’s anything to this but kindness and caring for the children and a little of me! Yesterday we went to D6s first day at school together. She invited me to eat breakfast at her house and I said yes. This is the first of several invitations I have accepted. She is still hugging, touching and being nice.

W called me this morning about me picking up the girls. It should have been a 30 sec. convo but it lasted 10 min. I try to end our convos everytime but she keep on talking about the Ds, that she got new internet, the concert we attend on Saturday, that the girls are looking forward to seeing me, she asks about S10 and so on. I answer her questions and try to be scarse on the words but still pleasant and kind. She told me that it was so nice that I was there eating breakfast yesterday.
I try not to read anything in to all of this but it still keeps my head spinning. She doesn’t want to live with me but she wants me in her life (Plan B, friend or what – I don’t know!). I still don’t get her actings….but I do believe she feels good about herself and her life! She has told her cousin that’s she plans on living without a man for a long time.
As read you, Sandi and everybody else I have to get out of her life. That’s hard when she act like this unless I just tell her straight to her face to back off. I fear doing this right now but possibly that’s just what I need to do and then I will do it.

Sandi2 once told me that I should trust my feelings about W. I feel W is gone but I also feel on a day like yesterday that she is confused about it all. I do not feel any doubt in her but I feel confusion about how to act around me. I am not detached – I love her! I try to act detached around her and I believe I am doing fairly well but it is difficult. I follow 37 rules to the best of my abilities but also try to mind advice from coach.

The suggestion about the 3-1 rule was mine initially but coach immediately told me that she agreed to this. I believe coach’s reasoning is that W is being nice and pleasant and I should be the same. I have withdrawn more than 3-1 for now. In fact I have only contacted W when she has asked me a direct question. Coach has all the way believed that W will come around and that’s why she has been telling me to touch, talk and be nice. Coach is still on this path but my concern about this is that coach does only have my POW and this could be interpreted wrong.

What is your opinion? Please do not mind coach’s advice – please give me yours?

Do not address it. You gave her your apology letter, that is all you can do for now. See what happens as her new life sets in and she is a single mom trying to handle work, school, homework and bills.

Agreed, I won’t!

You earn respect as Sandi2 said be nice but stand up for yourself. Also, have an opinion. Sometimes people think they are being nice/kind by saying 'okay, whatever you want' but it is a huge turnoff.

I believe I have stood up for me and my opinions!

Think about it this way...what will be more important in the big picture? D6's scouting memories and the values she will learn or D4's schedule? It will all work and it won't be that bad

Thanks! ALSO TO HWA!
I will give your advice some serious thoughts!


Any comment on the “Nurture the spark” from 25mlc?

You need some vets to answer these questions..I am sure they can add a lot more!

I really hope VETS will come by!

LTH, Thanks for taking time with all what is going on in your own sit. I was so happy reading about the latest development and I will keep you in my prayers.

F