Quote: Father_of_Three, I've searched for your username but cannot find any of your threads. I'd like to read about your situation. Can you send me a link?
Quote: "I don't need books to get better, you do, I'm getting better on my own."
That reminds me of something Lina posted, I believe, about how her H was working on *internal* things on his end that weren't obvious to her. Challenge her (gently, lovingly) to open up and share with you what she's been working on.
Quote: I invited her to bed sex-free for a night of cuddling. She got home at 3:00am.
Was she gambling or with friends? Isn't that a bit of an odd thing to do on Valentine's Day (without you)? I'm really sorry she didn't take you up on the offer for cuddles. I'm hearing alarms, but need to read more of your story.
In a nutshell, Aquarian, here is my situation, and my posts that I've started over the past few months:
The Valentine's Day thing started out as a planned event for her. I knew she was stressing about having the "obligation" to have sex on Valentine's Day, so I told her that for Valentine's day I would take our three kids (9S, 8D, 4D) to the monster truck event that was in town here. While we were there, I suggested that she go to bingo and enjoy herself and that we'd meet up after both events were over and have a nice quiet evening together.
10pm turned to midnight and midnight turned to 2 am and I wondered what she was up to. She came home at 3am and said that she decided to go to the riverfront casino because she had won $50 or so at bingo. I didn't argue at all, just said I was glad she was safe and home.
We laid in bed and I hugged her tightly and she then said that she'd "use her hand" on me if I wanted it. I wasn't after sex, just closeness. If she had suggested we make love, I'd have been all for it. But that doesn't come out of her mouth at all anymore.
I am so stunned by the Dinner Exchange between you and your wife, you could literally knock me over with a feather.
I think your response to her was very appropriate, and it was NOT passive aggressive. It was you exercising your FREE WILL, your ability to make a CHOICE. In some circles, this is called 'drawing a boundary.'
The only place I see you continuing to get hung up with your wife is getting 'into the sh!t' with her. The next time she calls you passive aggressive, simply say to her, "I'm sorry you choose to see it that way.' After all, she has a right to see the world in any way she chooses. You have the right not to 'step into her sh!t.' If she continues to plow on and try to convince WHY her view of things is correct, simply acknowledge that something is coming out of her mouth. "Yep, I hear what you are saying." You certainly don't have to agree with her, and neither do you have to defend your differing view point with her.
As for household duties, cooking, childcare, etc., I think you should treat your marriage like the business partnership that it is. Make a schedule. Tell her you'll cook x, y and z nights of the week. Tell her you'll cook what you enjoy cooking, and if she wants to eat it, great. If not, she can fend for herself. Tell her that when you cook, you will NOT be doing KP duty. And if she doesn't do KP duty of the night you cook, LET THE DISHES SIT. She can argue if she wants to; she can argue until the cows come home, but don't you DARE give in and do the dishes.
You will notice above that you are merely stating what you will and won't do. You are not stating what you EXPECT HER to do. It is her CHOICE either to do the dishes or not. It is your BOUNDARY to say that you will not do KP duty on the night you cook. If you give in, you are in violation of your own boundary, and she is not to blame.
Move her down to the level of friend, and offer to her the respect you would give a stranger, but NOT the respect a reciprocating spouse deserves. Treat her like the roommate and business partner she wants to be. You can do this, really. Believe me, she WILL notice. It may take a few weeks, but if you stick to your BOUNDARIES, and you keep a polite distance, she IS going to notice.
And when she does get around to asking you what is wrong, because she will, tell your wife that you are respecting her space and her right to choose. Tell her that you understand that this is how she is and you accept her as such. But be very clear to her that, for your part, you want a happy and loving marriage that you BOTH can enjoy, and if she is not willing to work with you and do whatever it takes to make you both as happy as possible, then the promise of 'forever' that you made to her is now null and void. Now, you will stay in the marriage as it is for as long as you can, but you just don't know how long that will be.
You are being WAY TOO acommodating for her, and I think it is half your problem. YES, become more independent. Fend for yourself. Think of yourself FIRST and extend to her the courtesy you would extend to a roommate. No, this is NOT cruel. You are giving to her exactly what she says she wants, but you are drawing your own boundaries.
Stay out of her sh!t, hairdog. Do not argue with her. There is no reason. But, that does not mean you cannot draw boundaries.
Dave, I am cracking up laughing here. Please do not torture yourself over this woman any longer. You have NO idea if she was truly HD or simply playing a very dangerous game with a married man.
I have been HD since I hit puberty (20+ years ago) and I have never, once, showed my panties to a man (let alone a married man) in night school or anywhere else. I have always conducted myself with class and, yet, I am no prude either.
So don't feel like your choices in life are: a loving and respectable wife, or a semi-stalking, promiscous-acting nutcase. In fact, her actions speak to me of someone who is temporarily HD....she was perhaps acting out over some traumatic event in her life. I mean, does YOUR high level of desire cause you to do crazy things to strangers? Most likely not. It is just a quiet presence that is always, always there like your heartbeat.
There is a good chance that this young woman was out to "prove" something to herself or to someone else. I wouldn't give her another thought. I am sure that she would have lost interest in you just as soon as the divorce was final and her power was diminished.
But, really, what I wanted to say is that if you are looking for women who look or act a certain way, in hopes that they are HD, you will be sorry!
CeMar, Regarding HD women and the magical surprises they spring. We went for a walk in the park one day and sat down on a bench. After a few seconds she got up and walked around me (I assumed she was going to sit on the other side of me out of the wind as my LDW would) but no... she sat on my lap slipped her hand under my shirt, moved it around then whispered "I love men with hairy chests". Guys like us live for that sort of experience don't we CeMar?
I have thought about this a lot, since I figure I will have to divorce my wife in the long run. I have already been screwed by one woman that pulled the "Bait and Switch" routine, so how do I find a REAL HD woman in her 40's that won't be subject to the FAKE desire that comes to women in the newness of a relationship? I want TRUE HD.
Hmmmmmmmm maybe once you are divorced, live with the woman you pick for several years. If she is truely HD it will not disappear after that time? Just a thought Annette
You know if you have met an HD woman if you know how to communicate with them, both physcially and verbally. Finding an HD woman is not the answer to your misery, just a temporary balm. I'm telling you, my H went through this with the woman he was with before me, and having an HD man and an HD woman in a relationship was NOT the magic formula.
SD: CeMar doesn't listen to me. This will go in one ear and out the other; he will completely ignore my point, come up with a list a mile long on how things SHOULD be, he'll give me at least two fantastic references, either books or web sites, that back up his arguments (which I will read because he finds amazing resources), and he will be no farther along to solving his problem because he refuses to draw boundaries with his wife. And I LOVE CeMar. I just can't help him because he refuses to help himself.
You, on the other hand, are relatively new here, and I've seen you come to some significant realizations on your own. I have tremendous hope for you. I have tremendous hope for CeMar, too, he just doesn't want to hear it.
I have said this before, and I will say it again. HDs and LDs speak different languages. You may THINK you are communicating with yor wife, but you are not because she feels defensive. This is not communicating. This is you talking, and her stewing. NOTHING COMPUTES in this type of scenario.
YOU may understand that the two of you are speaking different languages, but SHE doesn't get that. She hears blah, blah, blah, SEX, blah, blah, blah, SEX, blah, blah, blah. She has turned you off and tuned you out.
It is time to find another frequency. Time to learn her language, and you must do it standing firmly planted on your BOUNDARY LINE. If you have he Kahonas to do this, you have a chance at changing your marriage.
Was she gambling or with friends? Isn't that a bit of an odd thing to do on Valentine's Day (without you)? I'm really sorry she didn't take you up on the offer for cuddles. I'm hearing alarms, but need to read more of your story. 
