The ups and downs of DBing

[tori2012]

Wendylon, you two definitely need to work on the trust. He might see you as someone who reminds him of his shortcomings, so he's avoiding you. Although you don't understand why he wants to spend money to go away, I would just listen and then tell him your point of view without wanting to control. If he decides to go, let it be his decision. I know he seems to have a problem with controlling his impulses but if he sees you as the "police," the avoidance will continue. It's a tough one. Just make sure you're happy, though. I don't want you to live a "half-lived life." I want you to fully enjoy every second you're given on this planet.

[Wendylon]

Thank you so much, Tori, for stopping by. You're right that H sees me as the police and carries on avoiding me. I don't want a half-lived life either but I can't see that leaving H will help. I feel stuck.

Over a month later and I'm still in the same sitch except that S18 and D16 are away so H's behaviour is more in my face. S13 isn't a witness and it makes me think that S18 and D16 act a bit like brakes on H's acting out.

By his own admission, H isn't doing very well at the moment. He's full of resolutions but I've heard that so many times that I practically prefer not to hear about his well-meaning intentions.

Last weekend, he threatened to move out after I'd asked him if he'd followed through on two financial chores. He claimed he couldn't stand it anymore. I just stayed out of his way and he was back to normal by the next morning. Later we talked a bit about his outburst and said that I'd been over-reacting as he in no way meant that he was leaving the family just that he needed a break. It's certainly not how it sounded at the time.

By mistake I opened a letter addressed to him. I found out that he's trying to get a loan and this letter was confirmation that he could get one for £5k. The interest rate is terrible and he would need a guarantor and I'm not sure who he would have got to be his guarantor. I just chucked it in the bin. He's been saying that he wants to get away to go on holiday which surprised me since he still owes me £2k. Now I understand how he's planning it.

I'm scanning in old photos and have got to my university days and all the photos of my first serious boyfriend. I keep wondering how my life would have been if I'd stayed with him--not a v productive line of fantasising.

I know that I need to detach and GAL. I'm not bad on the GAL side of things but I'm very up and down on the detachment. I can start obsessing about his lying. I actually asked him something the other day that I knew the answer to (did he owe anyone any money) and told him I really, really wanted to know the truth. He said he didn't have any debts and repeated it several times. I know for a fact that he does but didn't say as I knew from snooping in his study.

I've said that I don't trust him because he's lied about too many things over the last few years, big and small. He's hugged me and said that that really isn't what he wants... I keep thinking that I've married a weak man. I feel embarrassed vis-a-vis my friends and family. Looking around, I think they're all in stronger/better marriages.

Our finances should be separate before too long. He's still in the process of transferring his mother's house into my name and whatever income I can generate from that will be his contribution to joint expenses. At least, I'll know what to expect.

His earnings will then cover his debts, his personal expenses and pay for treats and mishaps. He's paid for D16's trip right now. I know he'll keep spending on the children, especially trips and holidays. He does lots of unpaid work in the field of autism and is on several boards. I think it's all in a good cause and makes him feel appreciated but he actually doesn't earn very much.

I'm sorry not to be more upbeat. I'm still convinced that DBing is the way to go. I'd love to get to the point where I'm enjoying life regardless of H's shenanigans. I still get stuck trying to get him to follow through on his promises--even the ones that don't affect me directly such as exercising.

[tori2012]

Wendylon, here is my take on some of your points:
1. Think of your life situation as a choice. I know you feel stuck, and if you feel stuck, you feel as though you have no control. But you do have it. I don't think you want to end your M but what changes (small or large) can you make to the way you and your H interact that will improve the quality of your life w him?
2. Avoid comparing yourself to others. A lot of people seem super happy but you never know their realities.
3. A productive way to use your imagination is to picture the life you want and to feel what it would feel like to be there NOW. This exercise will lead you to changes you can make or provide answers to your questions.
4. I wouldn't trust your H either. Joe lied to me to my face many times even after I told him I really wanted the truth. He signed pieces of paper saying he'd stop lying. Nothing worked. So it's OK to feel the way you feel. However, try to focus on the positive things about him (like the work with autism.)

Hope this helps. Sending you a huge hug (((((((((((())))))))))))

[Wendylon]

I've felt better, Tori, ever since reading your take on some of my points. I love the way you reframe things. Thank you very much.

Yes, I am choosing to stand/DB as best I can for now. I'm not a victim.

H called (after the time he'd said he'd be back for supper) to ask if it was OK for him to go out for a curry with some colleagues. I said, "yes, sure, but will you be back in time for us to watch Spiral?" In retrospect, that was a bit clingy of me. It would be fine if we didn't watch our current series it tonight. In fact, I'm pretty sure he will be back too late. He did apologise for calling late. I could even watch it without him if I really wanted to but I'm a bit scared to start doing one of the few things we do together on my own. We could end up spending even less time together.

Thank you for the hugs!

[tori2012]

Wendylon, so glad I can help a good friend like you.

Something needs to be taken out of your heart: fear. It's OK to do the stuff you do together on your own. This doesn't mean you'll stop doing it w him when he's home. What is happening is that you're associating the show or whatever other routine you have with safety. It's like me associating my old house with the M. But if you let go of fear and just be in the moment, you will feel more at peace and I think he will do so too.

Don't beat yourself up for being too clingy. Just take note of the behavior you don't like and don't repeat it.

I recommend watching the Eckhart Tolle/Oprah show on A New Earth, available on YouTube. I watched all 10 episodes and they were so enlightening! This was recorded a few years ago, but I guess I didn't know about it until now.

(((((((((((((((())))))))))))))

[lionhrt]

Hi Wendylon,

Been a while since I caught up but Tori's posts above were right on the money for me. Sorry to hear you are not in a great place.

FWIW I don't think you married a weak man. I think your H is in some sort of MLC....maybe not full blown....but his behaviours, threats to move out, anger, lying, spending, debt, confusion etc etc. I may have missed/forgotten earlier posts but did you read the MLC resources? I wouldn't advocate getting obsessed by a label, but the resource list might ring a few bells....and I don't think this excuses his behaviour.....but it may help you understand.

You sound as if you are trying to fix him......he needs to work on this himself. You do as you are doing, protect your finances, protect yourself and as you said on my post....expect nothing. Give him all the space in the world to work on himself while you continue to make yourself stronger and hopefully enjoy life....but be there (like you have) when he needs you.

His work with autism is to be commended and hope you are championing him with this?

All the best Wendylon

[JuneReN]

Hey Wendy, been a while

Do H's debts affect you directly right now? I know that as spouses we are responsible, but is it something you can let go? He is obviously not going to come clean to you...quit asking lol!

That is the worst thing about snooping though, it gives us more info than we really want sometimes. Sometimes (as a person attending snoopers anonymous myself) ignorance is good :P

Here are my stock phrases for you when H is going out :

Sounds fun, have a good time!

Super, say hi to so and so (do not use this if H is going out to dinner with XGF, just sayin'...)

Good for you...

You get the picture. Because you are doing the same thing RIGHT?? Getting out....

Good to hear from you
Ruby

[Wendylon]

I keep forgetting how validating and encouraging it is to get feedback. Thank you very much, Rkyfat and Ruby. I guess because DBing is pretty counter-intuitive and counter-cultural, it's really useful to be reminded of the philosophy and have it applied to our own sitch. I see it so much more clearly when I read others' threads.

Snooping is really a double-edged sword. I found out that H owes money to a coach but I'm stuck with that info because I read one of his emails. I have asked him to tell me honestly if he owes anyone money and he lied and said he didn't. You're right, Ruby, I need to quit asking questions because I get angry when he doesn't come clean and he doesn't!

Thank you, Rkyfat, for saying that H isn't necessarily a weak man. This board helps to realise that his behaviour isn't so abnormal.

Thankfully, the financial separation is happening slowly and I can see a time when I won't need to rely on him for anything financial. His mother's house is being transferred into my name and I'll try to make it produce some income even if not in the short term. He'd conveniently forgotten that he owed me 2k but that got sorted out today. I was feeling stressed that he managed to 'forget' the facts. He was meant to reduce the mortgage with it so that the stamp duty on the transfer of his mother's house to me would be lower. As it turns out, he can't really put the money into his account without it being eaten up by the bank. Facts really don't stick with him. I can see how he gets into financial trouble.

He's still over-drinking about once a week but I'm trying to let go of that and not comment.

No sex, no affection, but our interactions are relatively pleasant. He thanked me the other day for being nice about his drinking binges. He said that he was going to say "thank you for not being horrible" but that actually I was being nice.

He and my brother went out and had a nice time together. My brother says (semi-jokingly) he's going to take my H's side in our disputes!

You're right, Rkyfat, that all his unpaid work with autism is commendable. I guess I get a bit critical because it's public and outside the house. He doesn't do as much privately whereas we have someone with autism in our very own house. To be fair, he gets S14 up every morning and does take him out.

Ok, more detaching and less focus on H. Those are my goals!

[Wendylon]

Still trying to detach--not terribly successfully today but not at its worst either.

The first thing I think about when I wake up in the morning is H and how he needs fixing/changing/improving. I feel as if I'm addicted to thinking about how H should be different.

H can't seem to get the right ADs and is either depressed or sleepy. At the moment, he is very sleepy all the time (he's on Zyban and Wellbutrin). He went back to bed after S14 was picked up for school and then again he had another sleep before supper. I find all the sleeping so unmanly and unattractive and yet I do feel some compassion at the same time because I hate feeling sleepy. I can see that he struggles but, as I said, I hate seeing him sleeping during the day. Often his belly is hanging out visibly and that gets to me too.

Another irritant is H leaving the table half way through the meal to floss his teeth. He goes to his study and takes forever sorting out his teeth. Often, he never makes it back to the kitchen before the end of the meal. I think he's actually on his laptop. He then snacks after supper. I hear him make many trips back and forth to the kitchen. I feel like asking him why he doesn't actually have his supper with us and then stop snacking. I find the snacking annoying too since he's overweight and not exercising.

I know that I need to detach and I'm not expecting anyone to say anything to the contrary. After supper, I was hanging out with D16 in the kitchen and thinking that it's actually really nice not having him around all the time so I should simply enjoy it. Glass half-full as opposed to half-empty... D16 and I joke around a lot. I actually really enjoy one on one time with her and we chat about things that H wouldn't be that interested in anyway.

I did snoop a bit today. Of course, it didn't help my mood. I saw that he's taken out a new credit card. I also saw that he has unopened financial looking letters in his study. Not opening his mail is what led to the bailiffs coming to the door in April. He doesn't open 'scary' letters.

On the positive side, I do have moments throughout the day where I feel lucky to be living the life I lead and notice that I do have tons to be grateful for. I don't want to make H the focus but that's often where I go mentally. It nearly feels a bit OCDish.

[Wendylon]

I have been feeling a bit more detached when it comes to H. He hasn't shaved in days and I haven't said a thing. That's definitely a 180 on my part. I'm usually 'on his case'.

Earlier this week H worked 35 hours straight and didn't come back overnight. He was doing some IT work to do with a company changing their internet provider. I still managed to have a nice night without waking up every hour to see if he was back. Earlier in the evening, I hadn't harassed him with texts or calls to find out what was happening either. I kept thinking that it gave me nice one on one time with D16. S14 was away with Social Services for four nights so it was really peaceful just chilling out with D16. I don't think the two of us have ever had the house to ourselves. (S18 is still in Canada and won't be back until September.)

I got annoyed today as H spent the afternoon out and came back smelling of alcohol. I managed not to say anything though. I had a little rant about the tenant who moved out this morning leaving the flat a tip. I was hiding my irritation at H behind my other irritation. I also had a rant about the other tenant who is a hoarder. I suspect that H knows me well enough to know that I was pissed off with him but he won't know for sure...

He's signed the property transfer documents so it shouldn't be long before his late mother's flat and one above hers are properly in my name. Whilst it is a big responsibility and I've never been a landlord before, at least I'm more in control and I'm sure I'll eventually get more rental money than H was getting. His income can go to paying off his debts and his living expenses, and in due course to paying for family treats. At least that's the plan.

I went to see a specialist this week re my morning anxiety. He's put me on a drug I'd never heard of before (Mirtazapine/Remeron). I'm hoping it will help. I've only been on it 3 days so hard to say anything apart from fact that I'm really sleepy. I read that lots of people put on tons of weight. I'm not keen on that but I haven't noticed increased appetite so far.