Thumpered: Thanks for your kind words of support, it really does help.
If I were to date, I highly suspect W would be happy. It would be seen by her as "a sign from the universe" that we should break up, and help her make the decision to move on.
Regarding the staying out late/all night without notice: Right now we both still inform each other our comings and goings. Let each other know if plans change, etc. I like this and don't want to blow it up. If I do the mystery tactic, I suspect she probably would too... it would drive us further apart, and my head would spin worrying about where she is/what's she doing!
T2: Yes, definitely depression going on here. It doesn't seem she's feeling much guilt for what she's doing to me though. Plus there's no kids, and our families basically know nothing of our sitch... so no guilt there. Although she did make a comment once along the lines of "leaving you in limbo isn't fair to you". I let her know I'm fine giving her time and space... for now.
It mostly seems like this is all about her... I really don't matter much right now.
Cadet: Thank you too, for coming to my rescue. I s'pose I should look into Conway's stuff already.
This stuff sure ain't easy, but I'm still here!
M: A really long time. Crisis: 5 years. She's still worth it.
Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
Your W keeps saying that she wants to feel passion, and that she doesn't think she can have that with you.
To me, that is a numbness caused by depression. Nothing to do with you at all!
I remember my H telling me at bomb that he "felt like a shell of a person", and that his feelings for me "had definitely changed".
The thing is, I think the depression makes them so numb inside they have a hard time feeling anything. So they search for that magical thing that can awaken those feelings again.
For my H, it was FT. But now a year and a half down the road, it seems he's discovering that she's not all she's cracked up to be. And... His feelings for me seem to be slowly resurfacing.
Your W's feelings for you are buried deep within her FY. They didn't just go away.
In sorting through spew my H has told me, he said that he needs space to work through stuff and that he can't give me a timeline. I told him that I understood, but that I won't live this way forever.
So he knows I won't stay in limbo I definitely. I'm not going to keep repeating it. Going to keep going till that has tank is on e.
I see a lot of positives in your sitch - she's still at home, no OM, dating doesn't appeal to her, she wants to keep up appearances, she is still nice to you, talks to you, tells you things.
I think you still have some gas in the tank. Keep going
Bomb January 2012 - doesn't feel the same about me
~ "There is nothing love cannot face; there is no limit to its faith, hope, and endurance."
"At some point she tells me that she wants Passion, Love, and excitement. That it doesn't seem possible with us."
Excellent DBing in such a difficult conversation FY. I can picture you gritting your teeth at this to continue to validate instead of shouting "yes it is possible if you would give me half a chance damn it!"
Has your DB coach suggested you try casual touching at all? My previous MC from BD#1, Mort Fertel (he wrote a great book named Marriage Fitness), advocates very lightly and casually touching your spouse in passing once a day to get them used to your touch again - like a a brush of your hand on the shoulder.
I asked my DB coach Chuck about it and he said he suggests that too. I think he suggested it to T^2 also. It worked okay after BD#1, but this time being touched daily was too much for my H so I backed off on it to once every two weeks. He seems to accept it okay now with no glaring or flinching away, and I'm considering gradually increasing it to every 10 days and try to get it back to daily.
Your W seems a bit skittish and withdrawn, but maybe it would help? There can't be any passion or excitement with absolutely no touching. Just be prepared to answer the head whipped at you with glaring eyes or the flinching away with an innocent expressionless face
What is her LL? For a lot of women it's physical affection, but definitely not for my H, and maybe not for your W either.
"I'm thinking I need to initiate R talks once in a while to help her feel "unstuck". The timing of when I do this will be important. Mostly just listen and let her talk. Let her know that I think we are a great team, and can be an even better one.
Also gently let her know that if she's so sure there's no hope for passion and love between us then let's end the M. Go out and find whatever you're searching for, my love... Just don't expect me to be a best friend after demoting me from H."
This might be helpful, especially as she complainind about you "never wanting to talk about us"
This is so hard for you as your W is SO cautious and slow but TVS is right - there ARE a lot of positives in your sitch. Carry on FY, you are truly a champion DBer.
Linda
Me 65, Ex 64 M 38 y 2 adult S, 4 G-Kids MLC 11/07 BD 12/09 D 3/14 Dating nice guy 7/14 Engaged to nice guy 12/17
Her depression is so clear, FY. So clear. She is swimming in mud for sure, trying to grab onto a branch or rock to pull herself up and out.
It is just too much effort for her to do anything to change her life. She does the least she can, I suspect, with GAL.
Doing anything about your marriage or working through her stuff is too hard for her right now.
So, she knows she is stuck, that is a good thing. She knows she doesnt feel right also good.
And I know it seemed like it wasnt about you and mostly it isnt in MLC and depression.
But I did see some good things in there, FY. She sees you standing by her, sees you being kind and supportive. I see that it matters to her.
She is working her way through. But, oh boy, at a snail's pace for sure. This is so hard for her.
Originally Posted By: Foreveryoung
I'm thinking I need to initiate R talks once in a while to help her feel "unstuck". The timing of when I do this will be important. Mostly just listen and let her talk. Let her know that I think we are a great team, and can be an even better one.
Also gently let her know that if she's so sure there's no hope for passion and love between us then let's end the M. Go out and find whatever you're searching for, my love... Just don't expect me to be a best friend after demoting me from H.
I think you are exactly right in this ^^^^^. I think the time is coming for you to say that to her. She clearly needs a push in some direction.
FY, you are a special man. I know how difficult this is for you. You are in my prayers.
I am so sorry your sitch is in this stuck place right now.
I agree with what the other posters said, except wouldn't stay out all night. W is too sensitive and may see that as a stab in her heart. But the "idea" of you not always being there for her for the rest of her life is an interesting one to ponder.
You know the main theme my H left me with when he moved out was that he felt no passion in life ... not just in love ... and he wanted to feel that again.
I would say that he now does. It took depression, near-D, AD's and all that you know we have been through.
I know you have a good gut feeling about what to do. I found a combination of withdrawing while connecting seemed to work. The best I can figure is that my H knew I was always there as a friend. He used those terms many times. And he seemed encouraged that I would seek a good life on my own after D. But when it came down to it, he really didn't want to lose me.
It's not anything you didn't already know, but just wanted you to know I really feel for you and I fully believe W can rediscover full passion for you and her life. She is just not ready. And H wasn't ready either for a very long time. He had to prove to himself there wasn't a better life out there. When he saw that he could be lonely forever, or have a difficult life in establishing something new at his age, or he could possibly rediscover bliss with me, he made his decision to see a doctor and went on the AD's for three months.
It's been a rough road but well worth it. You would appreciate that I made him late for work this morning
Me54/H47 '08 H is "done" March '12 H moved out Brink of D, December '12 2014 totally reconciled! ...... "I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal." Jim Conway
FY, I don't post much to you because you always appear to have a good handle on your situation. However, today, I thought I would chime in on what the other posters have suggested.
I would continue to do what you've been doing, i.e., informing each other of the comings and goings, etc. I would not up the ante by staying out late or w/o notice. This is one way to knock your progress back by several steps. Continue advising each other. This makes the bonds of friendship much stronger. You have to start w/friendship in order to get to the other side of the mlc.
However, you can go about your business and not share all of your activities, interests w/her. You can distance yourself a bit and allow her to sense the withdrawal and see if she will begin to come closer to you, i.e., like a moth to a candle.
There will come a time when you are given the opportunity to sit down and have a chat w/her and lay it all out to her that you are continuing to move forward w/your life and you do not want to remain in limbo for another year or so. She will need to be told this, but the timing has to be right, i.e., just as T2 advised his wife of how he felt. Timing is everything.
Yes, it is still all about her and it will be that way for a while longer. She still has a ways to go to actually start realizing that there is a real world out there and she's got a great husband.
Sometimes, when the mlcer is living at home, it takes longer for them to go through the crisis because their focus isn't always centered on them and what they need to do to heal and it's very frustrating for the family that is living w/them because they think it should have been over and done with in say 6-12 months. I always admire those who can deal w/the mlcer that is living at home because it does create a lot of tension.
FY, when the time is right, God will open the door for you to have that discussion w/her. For now, you'll need to dig deeper for patience and repeat often that this is about her, not you and also, you didn't break her, therefore you can't fix her.
Take care.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
TVS, thanks for reminding me of all the positives. Yes, yes I do still have gas in the tank, and you just gave me a little more!
Linda: I avoid touching W because she says she doesn't want to touch me, and could never have sex with me again. She still accepts a hair brushing... usually with no comments.
uRw: Your words describing what my W is dealing with brought tears to my eyes. I want to be here for her as long as I can!
RH: Your words, and especially your sitch, have been an inspiration to me and everyone else here. I can't thank you enough. I too believe in the power of withdrawing while connecting.
Snooderly: I'm almost embarrassed to admit that I was concerned that you stopped posting to me because you wrote me off as a lost cause, or worse, that I offended you with a comment or two. I'm so glad to hear that wasn't the case, because you truly are one of the Angels of the DB board!
A heartfelt thank you to my entire DB team for rushing in to rescue me today. It truly means a lot to me!
Had another R talk with W tonight... more to come.
M: A really long time. Crisis: 5 years. She's still worth it.
Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
