No, the money wasn't going for anything wrong, just buying steaks and fresh asparagus and wine, when I should have been a little more careful.
The smoking issue was definitely about deceit and about doing something of which I knew she disapproved, and I screwed that up. But come on, it's over. Can we move on?
And thanks, MPT, for your comments. I think she definitely does feel like the "infrastructure" of the family, and I have probably contributed to this. I have to say, however, that when I assert myself, or do something without asking her exactly what she wants done, I tend to get criticized, which kind of destroys my urge to assert myself. So I turn a lot of things over to her.
She has also said that I need to show some confidence, yet when I do, especially in the love arena, she says I am being pushy. When I make 100 percent of the effort to kiss her goodnight, and, at the last moment, she turns her head so, instead of her lips I get a cheek, I can't help but feel a bit hurt. That's kind of an insult, in my eyes.
I wish she would forgive me for all of the real and imagined crimes, slights, insults, and transgressions, and let us move on as a couple and be excited to be together again.
Do yourself a favor and do not let this issue 'go' just because you have upset her. One thing I'm sure is a problem is she doesn't even KNOW what is in the book. I'm sure she's thinking it's along the lines of 'how to spice up your sex life,' or new positions to try, or new perfume she should wear to bed... whatever.
I think you need to explain to her that the book is primarily about the mispercetions and misinterpretations couples make about sex and each other. It is a communication book, a translation book, and a frank discussion of all the things couples do to hurt each other that they are most likely are not even aware they are doing.
If you brought her home a fire engine red teddy, black fishnet stockings, garters, and three inch pumps, then yes, I could understand her reaction to you. That is not what you have done here. What you have done is made an attempt to communicate to your wife about something you think is important, and it is far more than just about sex. If she gets mad at you because you are telling her you are hurting, she needs to seriously reconsider her attack. She is making this about 'her,' she is making herself a victim... and though I well understand her feelings of 'it's never enough,' she is completely MISINTERPRETING you giving her the book.
And doggone it, hairdog, you MUST draw a line in the sand, hold your boundary, and keep at it until she hears you. Yes, things may be very, very tumultuous at your house for a few weeks, because she is throwing a temper tantrum to get her way, and to get YOU to back down. This behavior must work very well for her as evidenced by the fact that you 'knew she would be pissed.'
I'll tell you what buddy, it is infinitely better to be 'pissed off' than to be 'pissed on' and that is what she is doing to you... even though I'm sure it is not on purpose. Why do you have to put your feelings aside just so she doesn't have to be mad, or just so she doesn't have to confront an issue?
Yes, when I was in your wife's shoes, I did indeed feel like it was 'always about sex,' with my H. I was completely ignorant of his feelings. Not on purpose, but because however he tried to explain it to me would not sink through my skull. When I read the book, and when SHE reads the book, she may have a different view of the whole thing because she will realize it isn't just YOU.
If you don't stick up for yourself, hairdog, no one will. That doesn't mean you have to be a jerk, or scream, or call names, but it does mean that you lovingly stick to your boundary.
There also seems to be some serious 'control' issues between the two of you, and you may want to think about heading back to marriage counseling to address them.
I was waiting for a "Corri" take on all of this. Thanks. I agree with everything, although we have been the counseling route and I didn't think it was particularly helpful. I generally have a high opinion of counseling, but this one was very passive, and I think she needed to be more involved. Basically she just told us that we had a lot on our plate, and that stress is a big libido killer, and that I needed to be patient, etc. So I've been patient. And I think my W just figured that I was accepting the whole situation, had given up, and that life would be cool and sexless. Today I shattered that illusion. It's going to be either a very quiet or a very noisy weekend at my place.
Quote: when I assert myself, or do something without asking her exactly what she wants done, I tend to get criticized, which kind of destroys my urge to assert myself.
Make a list of all responsibilities. See which ones you can take over from her side of the page... even up the load as much as possible. Why not ask her what she would like you to take care of? Tell her that you'd like to take on more and give her more free time for herself. Suggest some things that you know you could do without much chance of criticism. If she does give up something, and you feel certain that she'll criticize your contribution in some way, ask her exactly how she expects "it" to be handled. I'm not saying ask her to spell it out, but just repeat what she wants you to do as you see yourself doing it, and see if she agrees with your version.
Is she working or staying home with your daughter? How old are your other kids? Do you have both genders. You mentioned that you don't want to put your kids from 1st marriage through another divorce, but you know what? Depending on their ages right now, I don't think staying in a marriage (the way it currently is) is any better than divorce. You're teaching them that happiness isn't important. Know what I mean? I'm not saying give up, I'm just saying that if your W can't or refuses to see the problem, you need to really decide how important your happiness and self worth is to you.
Quote: She has also said that I need to show some confidence. When I make 100 percent of the effort to kiss her goodnight, and, at the last moment, she turns her head so, instead of her lips I get a cheek, I can't help but feel a bit hurt. That's kind of an insult, in my eyes.
Awwww I honestly don't know how she can not feel guilty for this behaviour. Have you asked her recently if she does in fact still love you? It's kind of obvious she's not *in love* with you, but does she love you? Ask her what you can do to make her fall in love with you again. Ask her what made her fall in love with you before? Ask her what happened to make her fall out of love.
Do you think she would take notice if she thought she might really lose you?
I don't want to divorce. Happiness is important to me, but I can be happy with her even without sex...I'll just find someone else to do that with. And I can't say that I'm kidding about that. Don't worry, that's not something I'm in the planning stages of right now.
As to whether she would take notice if she thought she would lose me, I think she would. The problem, however, is what CeMar has said so often: the important thing is that they desire us, not just that they "put out." I think that she needs to do a lot of work inside her head before she is ready for that. Unfortunately, she doesn't want to hear that.
I'm out of here for the weekend, folks. I will update you on this weekend next Monday...unless the snow storm they are predicting comes true, which means it may be a while. How romantic...stuck in the house with a loving wife who can't keep her hands off of you. POW!
Quote: And I think my W just figured that I was accepting the whole situation, had given up, and that life would be cool and sexless.
I don't think your wife is cool with your marriage. I think she has some very serious issues that need to be addressed by the two of you. As much as you need to stand your ground to be heard, you need to work very hard to hear what she is saying too. I think she has some very important, valid issues with you. She may not be just making it 'about her' to be a victim and manipulate the situation. It is a marriage and it is as much about her as it is you. I sense some very deep dissatisfaction from your wife.
She has made some very significant personal sacrifices for your marriage and family. No, you didn't twist her arm to do that and maybe you didn't feel she really needed to do it. But if you love her, you need to acknowledge what she gave up for her family. Put yourself in her shoes and feel what she is feeling. Express compassion and support for that personal loss. Even if she dismisses your support as unneeded, express and give it anyway. The loss is very real.
I also question whether your past "backing down" on things or handing them off to her HAS really worked well for your W. I think there is a good possibility she gets frustrated with your backing down and possibly loses respect for you. Not everyone gets disturbed by conflict. Some people can have a good fight, get it all out in the open, listen to someone else, appreciate a good argument, and respect and love the person who stuck it out as a fully involved participant. They may even be very turned on afterward.
Maybe your W wants you to "engage" not back down. A good fight doesn't have to be a screaming match with namecalling and objects thrown. A good fight is when both people stay engaged until they work it out together. You may be cringing at the thought of sticking it out with your wife, but it really won't kill you. (I don't think. )
But remember, you have to be as willing to listen to what she is saying and hear what she is feeling as you want her to do the same for you. No dismissing what she says as "just an excuse" or manipulative or intentionally misinterpreting what you're saying. You start with those assumptions and you won't be able to really hear her.
Maybe you could try what I do with my 5 year old twins when they're fighting. They have to sit on two chairs (far enough apart not to be able to touch each other) and neither can get up and go play until they've worked out their problem to the satisfaction of both . No screaming allowed.
On another note, when I wrote the possible interpretation that your wife gave to your note, which of the two below comes closest to your reaction?
A. "There she goes again taking everything the wrong way. I wish she'd stop doing that to me."
B. "If this is the way she sees things, that must really hurt her."
Thanks, MPT, for your thoughts. Of course, my first reaction to HER reaction to my note was, "there she goes again." But your points are valid, and I do take them to heart.
Friday night was not good. We basically communicated with my daughter as if neither of us was in the room. Her, because she was mad at me. Me, because I wanted to give her space and time to cool down. Saturday was a little better, but still the coldness prevailed. At one time, I saw he at the computer, looking at Bed and Breakfasts. I asked her if she was looking at them for the family vacation this summer. No. I asked her if she was looking at them for her and me to go to. No. Then she said, I just feel I need to get away. I left it like that.
Sunday morning, at about 4 am, she asked me if I was awake. Surprisingly, I was. We talked for about an hour and a half. Did we resolve anything? I honestly don't know. I certainly expressed my views about how intimacy, passion, and yes, sex, are extremely important to me in order that I can show love, and feel love. I told her about the 5 love languages, etc, and that my 'moral code' would not allow me to go outside of our committed relationship to find the physical touch I am missing so much.
And she talked, too, of course. I am trying to understand her thoughts on love and marriage and sex, and they just don't seem to make sense to me. I will try to articulate them to you, and please let me know what you think.
She says that my "obsession" with sex is a real turn off. She says that when I do nice things for her, she feels as if I am doing them in order to get sex from her. She says that when I leave her alone, don't touch her, give her space, that I am doing this in order to get sex from her. (as CeMar has noted, there is a lot of truth to this. Having had sex with her twice in the last year, I am trying everything.) She says that when sex becomes less important, or even, perhaps, not important at all to me, that is when she will finally be "turned on" enough to have sex with me.
How will she know that I have reached this point? She just will. Sigh.
I told her that she was trying to control my very thoughts, and that it was doubtful I would ever reach that point. She didn't really respond to that.
Then she reminded me about my ex-wife, and how her love language was gift-receiving. And how I was expected to buy her gifts, and how her moods were dependent upon the gifts I gave her, and how I began resenting buying her gifts. This, she said, was how she was feeling about sex with me. That was about the first thing she said that really made any sense.
But how am I supposed to change my thinking about sex? I have to tell you, I don't think I should. Although we "got along" the rest of the weekend, I'm not pleased with the outcome of the talk.
I still want her to read the SSM book, and it is still sitting on my dresser. She said she looked at it briefly, and that she may read it. I do not intend to hide it from the kids. My dresser is in my closet, so the kids probably won't see it, but she will, as the ironing board is right next to it.
One positive note. She said that as she was looking through the Bed and Breakfast Inns, she kept thinking to herself, "this is a nice place, I'd really like to go to it with Hairdog." (although, she didn't call me Hairdog.
That's enough for this morning. I await your comments.
Even though you didn't really understand all that your wife was saying to you, I hope that you see your 4 a.m. conversation as really, really big. The two of you made an effort, together, to communicate.
Think on this. You may want to send your W an email today and thank her for opening up to you this weekend. You are starting to understand her point of view, but one of the problems you are both having is really, really understanding what it is like to be in the 'other person's shoes.'
Tell her one of the reasons you want her to read SSM so badly is NOT because you think it will convince her to have more sex with you, but because you are darn near certain that it will explain to her what you are really feeling, and, you'd like to read the LD section of the book with her to be certain you are truly understanding her POV.
The SSM book, at least for me, is about understanding a POV that is not native to my own way of thinking. It is NOT about getting one person more sex (although that can happen). It is about compassion, empathy, and really understanding how different people view intimacy and yes, sex.
Tell her it is not your intent to upset her, or to MAKE her have more sex with you (okay, so lie a little), but to help the two of you communicate honestly and without fear regarding a topic that is very, very sensitive for both of you.
Ask her again if she will read it with you (adding a please might not hurt).
I honestly don't know how she can not feel guilty for this behaviour. Have you asked her recently if she does in fact still love you? It's kind of obvious she's not *in love* with you, but does she love you? Ask her what you can do to make her fall in love with you again. Ask her what made her fall in love with you before? Ask her what happened to make her fall out of love.
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