So she does not even acknowledge there is a problem? Or she puts the problem onto you? Seems to me she left her "dream job, dream house, etc, etc" because she wanted to, not because you twised her arm. I've been reading on this forum for quite some time now and have not really contributed because I am not a very good writer. Seem to have a hard time getting my point across or do not know the right words to say. I have been waiting months for my hubby to read the book. He said he would but the book is still in the same spot as before. I am to the point where I just don't care anymore, and ironically enough it was at that point when he came to me and said he wants to make the marriage work. Hes being nicer to me, actually went out with me on New Years Eve for the first time in about 8 yrs, but we still sleep in separate beds. Anyway would seem to me that now is that time to try to get her to see that her reaction to a simple request of reading a book is a little bit exagerated. I'm sure others will chime in soon and have much better advice for you. Hang in there.
Annette, you should write more often! You need more confidence in your abilities.
I definitely didn't twist her arm to sell her house, etc. We had a commuter marriage, and, although it was definitely getting more difficult with our daughter, it seemed to be working fine.
I added NOPkins comments to the letter, about how I know she loves me because she left her house, etc., but that I still needed passion, etc. She said that what my letter said was basically, "even though you gave up all of this, I need you to still give up more and have sex with me."
Is she the sort who'll probably later calm down and be a bit more rational about it? Or at least reconsider?
Though the hardest part is that, to a certain extent, she's right. You do need more, and that is what the whole point is. Hopefully she can reach a point where she sees it not as "giving up" more, but participating further in your marriage...
Is there any way you could sort of give her an introduction to the love languages idea, mention the things you've been doing differently to try to let her feel more loved in your marriage as an example of ways one spouse can go out of their way to consciously do so? Or would that turn into an "I do this... you do that..." battle? /-:
Hopefully she'll calm down and be more willing. It took a lot of courage for you to do that. It's a big step... and whatever happens next, it's good in the long run that you took it. Good luck, man.
I am turning in revolution
these are the scars that silence carved
on me
I think she'll eventually calm down, she always has before. As to whether she'll read SSM or the 5LLs, I am less certain. She may calm down and just go back to the way things were. As I've said before, if that happens, I will still stay with her, but mainly because of our daughter, and because the 3 kids from my first marriage don't need to go through another divorce.
Hairdog, The message you may have inadvertently conveyed is this: “All of the other stuff about you and everything else you have done doesn’t really matter. The fact that it is clear to me that you love me doesn’t really matter. I don’t care about any of that stuff; all I care about is sex with you. All I really value about our relationship is what happens for me when I have sex with you. Unless that happens I can’t be happy with you. You could have stayed in your house, in another town, essentially being a single-mom, and I would have been just fine as long as I was having lots of sex with you.”
Someone says, “Everything about you is wonderful and I’m so in love with you, but I can’t really be happy with you unless we’re having lots of passionate sex.” It isn’t that hard to hear that as “I ONLY value having sex with you. Everything else about you really means very little to me.” So in response the LD spouse says “It’s ONLY sex” and the HD person feels their needs aren’t accepted and validated by the LD spouse. And the LD spouse feels like everything ELSE that makes them who they are is meaningless to the HD spouse.
I’ve been trying to figure out what was so different about my experience with my “HD” spouse from what gets written here. The above pretty much sums it up. My H passionately adores ML and having sex with me. I wanted to improve our sex life because he loves it so much. But I felt loved by him for all the other qualities that make me me. He was happy being with me and because he was happy with me he wanted to ML to me.
Now before everybody jumps in with “But I really DO love her/him for all those other qualities! That’s WHY I so desperately need to ML to him/her!” Stop and think whether that is the message you’re really conveying to your spouse IF you are continually saying that you aren’t happy with them without lots of passionate sex, regardless of everything else about them that you think is really great.
I’m actually trying to help you get the sex you want but the message has to change from “Only sex will make me happy with you” to “I AM happy with you; therefore, I want to have lots of sex with you. I want to express my love for you and my happiness with you. I feel like all this love I have for you gets bottled up inside and I ache to express it. ML with you is what lets it all out for me.” See the difference?
Thanks, MPT. I appreciate everything you said, and I actually have little doubt that she perceived it in the negative way you indicated. However, even if I had said it in this way:
Quote: “I AM happy with you; therefore, I want to have lots of sex with you. I want to express my love for you and my happiness with you. I feel like all this love I have for you gets bottled up inside and I ache to express it. ML with you is what lets it all out for me.”
...she would have found a way to perceive it negatively. She would say something like, "but ML is not something that is important to me, or that makes ME feel loved, so you'll have to come up with some other way, like vacuuming the living room. Aren't MY needs important? Why is always about YOU?"
As a Buddhist, she says that the root of my suffering is my attachment to sex. That I should give up that attachment, and then my suffering will end. That's really easy to say for an LD person. Well, I'm not LD or Buddhist. I'm HD and I want to ML to my W, who I love in so many other ways but this one.
First of all, wow! I'm so proud of you for finally doing it! You may be bummed for a while, but you had to do this. She needs to understand that she's the only woman you want to ML to. You love her so much that you want to improve your marriage; it's not *just* about sex.
Quote: Said she has trust issues with me (I'll go into this later, but I tend to think they are all red herrings). What are these "red herring" trust issues? Maybe they're enormous to her. They must be if this is how she reacts to you giving her a book.
She does not want to confront her own reasons for why our sexual relationship is nil, so she blames it all on me, and other external stressors. Things can only get better now. I have to admit, I'm shocked by her reaction. She's treating you like her son, not her husband. I think a wise dber will have to chime in here. The ball is in her court, it's time for you to 'go dark' or something like that...
Be strong! You've done really well! Now keep your eyes open to those first signs that things are moving in the right direction! Keep us posted.
Trust issues are related to finances. She's had to bail me out financially about three times, and I recently overdrew my checking account by $20 and she said I never change. I'll be the first one to admit I'm not the most fiscally responsible guy. To address this, I've basically handed all financial matters over to her.
Also, I started smoking cigarettes, kept it a secret from her, she found out, I quit, then started again, she found out, then I quit. She points to this secrecy as a big trust issue.
I think these are red herrings because they aren't related to sex. I welcome other people's views.
Oh my goodness. It only makes sense that the spouse with better financial skills handles the finances - that is not a trust issue, unless you can't explain where the money is going(?)!
As for the smoking, I can kind of understand her there. Both H and I were smokers and we tried to quit just before we got pregnant with our DD. I found out when I was about 5-6 months along that he had been smoking and covering it up. I felt concerned that if he could hide smoking as well as he did, could he be capable of cheating on me just as well? I felt deceived and hurt by it.
Hairdog, Hodgepodge of thoughts follow. I have to run soon so pardon the incoherence or lack of thorough thought.
If I were you I would respond that you want to help her feel loved in the way she feels love, but that you still have a need to EXPRESS your love in the way you need to.
Then, frankly, I think you should ask her which of these two scenarios she would feel best about (1) she argues her point exceptionally well, and gets things exactly the way she thinks she wants them but leaves another person whom she loves feeling lost, or (2) she lets go of her point for a bit and listens to what the other person is feeling, works with that person to find a win/win solution even if it isn't exactly the way she thinks she wants things right now, and this person whom she loves feels heard, accepted, and loved.
On second thought, that's what someone outside of your relationship should be saying to her. I don't think you're in a position to say it and be heard right now.
You and she aren't communicating as two people who love each other. Not saying that you don't love each other, but you aren't communicating as two people who love each other. You are two people who are trying to get your world to work according to your individual perspectives instead of as a two people on the same side. Perhaps you should be talking about that for now. Put the sex issue on hold for a bit and address the you vs. me approach to problems.
Why does your wife feel it is always about you? Does your wife feel like she has to "take care of you?" These are rhetorical questions on my part. I think you need to ask her why she feels like it is always about you.
The financial issues and the smoking thing may not be directly related to sex in your eyes, but they may be very important in how she sees you and her role in the family. There may be other things that make her feel she's the infrastructure of the family and consequently is already giving a great deal.
