Enough - time to move on

[MrBond]

"When it comes to value decisions, I DO want my kids to make choices and pick sides."

It doesn't work that way. Many adults can't process this how do you expect kids to?

You never answered the question of whether or not you read up on how to discuss the situation with your kids. I seriously suggest you talk to a C that deals with children and get their recommendation on how to deal with the situation.

"I don't want my children to go through a broken marriage. "

It's ironic when you say this because you "forcing" them to choose a side, is how they are going to treat their spouse. That is what you're teaching them.

If you want to teach them morality, that's fine. But what you don't seem to get is that there is a way to do it and a time.

[Underdog]

Rock,

I just want to weigh in with a different perspective to consider. I've been here for a really long time, have seen a variety of experiences, miracles and bizarre outcomes. Some are surprises and some are not. I will say my words with those experiences in mind, including my real life experiences with family. I urge you to work on that anger and judgement for not only your sake but for your children.

I have personally seen very unpleasant outcomes - predictably - when parents bring on the moral police and throw the spouse under the bus. What those kids need the most from you is for you to show the vulnerable, forgiving side so they learn love and compassion for others.

I'm not saying you have to agree with your W's choices or morals. But those kids have her for a mom, and they don't have the choice to divorce either one of you. All they want is to be able to love and be loved by both of you.

The predictable outcome I see most of the time is that the parent who vilifies the other is ultimately rejected by the kids. No matter who is at fault. Please don't put them or yourself in that position. It's a trap. And you and the kids will be hurt the most.

You live through your actions and not your words. Your kids are paying attention, so give them your best you that you can.

I say this in kindness and hope you can see something good in my post to you.

Good luck.

Betsey

[Lanzo]

If I can chip in as well based on my own current experience.

D10 as she was then started to notice Mom and Dad passing each other in the house without communication, she noticed that the fun and laughter had gone and she started to ask questions. I agonised over this, and no I haven’t read any books, but I did speak to SIL and she said if she’s asking questions then she deserves her some answers. I had a sit down chat with D and explained the overall situation to her at which point she burst into tears, after some comforting she said it was hard for her to take on board what I had just told her but she needed to know. She said whenever she asked mom any questions the reply she got back was nothing “you’re too young to understand”.

Now that she does understand what’s going on the questions I get are slightly different like, “dad, mom calls you and your side of all sorts of bad names why don’t you do the same ?”. That I can answer easily. Or the one time three of us sat down for a meal D said dad you made an effort to make conversation but Mom just messed about with her phone.

I have mentioned before (maybe in my thread) that W has answered questions on her original A and said it was a mistake that Dad won’t let her forget, but in talking to D11 on grown up stuff she said that she won’t be making the same mistake as her mom has.

I have seen D11 grown up very quickly now that she knows mom and dad are not together and she has developed her own self defence mechanisms for dealing with when W goes out on her “date nights”. If I make a comment like oh mom’s taken her overnight bag D will quickly say “leave it dad” followed by lets “find a fun movie we both can watch”.

So yes D11 has quickly adapted to the situation and I think most kids do, she knows her mom is making wrong choices but she loves her all the same and I encourage her to do so. When we finally do split I’ve told her to make sure she maintains a good relationship with her mom whatever happens or whatever she sees.

I am angry and bitter and would love to portray W as some sort of **** crazy woman to D11 but as Underdog says that would be counter productive in the long run.

Lanzo

[RockJC]

I think you can talk with your children about what is going on in your home honestly, and express your values without "Throwing your spouse under the bus" or "villifying your spouse".

I am trying.

I just know that you cannot ignore what is going on in front of your children like it is not happening.

[MrBond]

"I just know that you cannot ignore what is going on in front of your children like it is not happening."

AGAIN, you are missing the point. You never answered the question of whether or not you ever read or got C about how to approach the situation with your kids.

[RockJC]

I don't think I am.

And I found your question condescending, which is why I didn't answer it. But, yes I am in counseling and I have asked specifically about how to deal with this issue.

[MrBond]

"And I found your question condescending, which is why I didn't answer it."

Really? in what way? I asked a simple question of whether or not you discussed how to talk to your kids in the way that you just did with a C or if you had read any books on the effects on children. I'm concerned about the well being of your kids as I am sure you are and your defensiveness hinted that you didn't.

There are no winners or losers. Your children are caught in the middle of this. Any child T worth their weight will tell you that the way you approached it was wrong. I understand that YOU have gone to a T but have you ever considered going to a child T?

They are your first priority.

So if you think my intention was purposely to demean you, when I have other people to help, then that's your attitude.

"yes I am in counseling and I have asked specifically about how to deal with this issue."

So the T told you to talk to your kids in EXACTLY that way huh?

[RockJC]

//Really?//
Yes, really.

//in what way?//
In the "I know what I am talking about and you dont" way. In the "I am smarter and wiser than you" way. In the "Anybody who thinks like you is a fool" way. In the "you are not educated and need to read a book" way. in the "Your counselor doesn't know what he is talking about" way.

But mostly in the arrogant "If you don't agree with me, you are wrong" way.

Yes, your comments are condescending. I am very surprised that you do not see that.

con·de·scend·ing - Acting in a way that betrays a feeling of patronizing superiority.

[Lanzo]

OK, I'm stressed and I don't want to come on here reading these tit for tat answer.

So lets end this with "Advice graciously offered", "Advice respectfully refused".

Lanzo

[MrBond]

"In the "I know what I am talking about and you dont" way."

First off, I never said you didn't know what you were doing. I asked if you had talked to someone about it. And specifically, that situation.

"In the "I am smarter and wiser than you" way. In the "Anybody who thinks like you is a fool" way."

Where in the world did you get that from? I'll be the first to admit that I don't have all the answers and that's just being plain honest. I seem to have struck some kind of nerve with you about your situation.

"In the "you are not educated and need to read a book" way. in the "Your counselor doesn't know what he is talking about" way."

Um I definitely don't know where you got this from. I just asked if you talked to your C specifically about how to approach this with your kids. But hey, their your kids not mine.

"But mostly in the arrogant "If you don't agree with me, you are wrong" way."

Again, I have to laugh about this. I never said you had to agree with me and I never say that I'm right and you're wrong. The last time there was a guy who was perfect, he could walk on water. Last time I checked, you and I aren't him.

Look, I get it. I have two kids of my own when my W was going through her sitch. She had an A with her boss whom she saw every day. Was I p*ssed and wanted to say something to the kids? Of course I did. But then I realized in the long run it wouldn't have done the kids any good. So I went to my C and my kids' C and asked how to approach it. And I'm glad my kids came out of the experience fine with no resentments and no judgements on their mom. And my W thanked me for not getting the kids involved.

You're angry, resentful, had your pride hurt, etc. I get it. But you taking it out on someone who just had your kids' well being in mind (again, I want to stress that I'm sure you do too), isn't doing them or you any good.

But of course that's my two cents. They're your kids not mine. I'm not the one that's going to have to deal with them when they grow up and their relationships. That's not being condescending, that's just the truth.

How you choose to raise your kids is up to you. Always will and always has been.