One giant leap forward! - Part 3

[sandi2]

Do you remember just a short time ago when you were saying you could not imagine her getting to the place of wanting to have sex with you?

[T1000]

Yes I do.

[Fartiltre]

I do as well

When I read your update today Sandi2s post came to my mind very clearly! Spot on! Perhaps this was her final attempt on control and IMO you reacted perfect!

[T1000]

That was also what I thought when she first started this afternoon.

Where do I go from here?

[labug]

What's your boundary here?

She wants to have sex with you, that's pretty clear.

Can you have sex with her without putting more meaning to it than having sex?

If you don't want to have sex, why the sexual banter?

[T1000]

What's your boundary here?

She wants to have sex with you, that's pretty clear.

Can you have sex with her without putting more meaning to it than having sex?

If you don't want to have sex, why the sexual banter?

I think I could have sex without it meaning more right now but that could be easier to say than do.

I do want to have sex, I have just stated that it won't be until we have made progression in repairing the relationship. That means I could initiate or or be open to it after our first MC session.

I engaged in sexual banter because it's fun and I'm not saying it won't happen but it's just not right now.

I suppose in a way it's my way of controlling how she tries to control me.
Sandi mentioned that she will use sex to try and control me and the more I can stay away from the it or not do it the less control she will have.

[sandi2]

If you don't want to have sex, why the sexual banter?

I started to comment about the bantering, too. Unless there have been other times that you have not revealed, then the way it appears to me is that all she had to say we're two little words. "I'm horny". After all the warning.....you coulldn't hear bells going off? Gosh T, that seemed pretty easy for her to get you to play along. Isn't that like verbal foreplay for you? Honestly, I was surprised to read you could turn her down when you went back to her place. Then as soon as you left, the bantering started again. And now you ask where do you go from here?

Well, I can tell you what's next from her. She's going to turn the heat up b/c you didn't have sex with her (physically at least). It's your business, and I don't want to sound like your mother, but didn't we discuss how easy it would be to have sex, thinking you were working on the R, but then it goes nowhere.

You did tell her no sex till the R was better. Does she understand you were referring to the stipullations you gave her?

I think the main focus was for you to be in control and not let her use sex to pull you back into those old pattern and repeat the same old mistakes. How will she know you are serious if you play & tease her about it over the phone? When she opened the door by saying "I'm horny", I feel you should have ignored it or reinforced what you've told her about no sex before some therapy, etc. But it sounds as if it has been turned into a game. I believe you may have made that area a little more difficult for yourself.

You handled yourself very well while at her house. But how long wil you be able to hold out? After all the discussion on it, you are now asking when you can start showing affection.

You have to stay focused on the line you drew in the sand. You have to keep a clear head and stay balanced. The first mention of sex from her and it seem to throw you off. The issue is not so much about having sex.........but where it puts you in the R with her. You were wanting to show her you are changing, you are stronger, and she can't control you like she use to do by using sex.

She flip-flops every other day. One day she threatens D and the next day she wants sex. I don't know how you live with someone like that......unless you take the reigns that will take both of you in the right direction. She needs a man who is stable and can lead the family.

By some things she said was her "fears".......seem kind of shallow to me and I suspected she was playing on your sympathy to draw you back (b/c she had just switched from threatening getting a lawyer), so yes, I was suspicious, too.

So, it goes back to your boundaries and knowing what they are.

[T1000]

I told her that we wouldn't be having sex until we started to work on the R.
To me that is when she has paid for half of and gone to an MC session.
Rightly or wrongly that is currently my line in the sand.
That is what I stated and I plan to follow through on at least that.

From doing that I know she is fairly invested in the R.

She was telling about her money issues last night so I know she couldn't give up the money lightly. I was tempted to let her have a pass on it and pay it myself but then I thought well it's tight for me too.


The first mention of sex did throw me off and thats why I think I started the banter, as a way of coping.
I shouldn't have dealt with it that way but I did state my position on not having sex before and I stuck to it.
I can cut back on the banter because it gives mixed signals but now I've started wouldn't that also be a mixed signal?
She knows I'm interested, doesn't that make my position slightly stronger because I'm willing to say no?

I get the feeling I'm going to go down this road and at some point someone is gonna tell me I have missed opportunities to connect with W when I had them. I don't just mean sex either.
Last night we had dinner together and we talked. It was very productive and I'm glad I did although I was unsure at first.
I honestly thought I was going to get grief for that on here but nothing has been said yet.

[labug]

T, I'm not trying to tell you what to do. I would like to see you have a loving, adult R with your W. I don't know if that's what you want. Your goals are your goals.

This is difficult stuff but we each have to figure out who we want to be and how we want to conduct our lives. Having boundaries helps us do that but setting those is difficult in the beginning. Once you see the power in it, it becomes easier because your life becomes easier.

You have shifting boundaries. You say things and I think you want to mean them but when it gets tough, you move that line just a bit, just far enough that it's no longer painful.

I told her that we wouldn't be having sex until we started to work on the R.
To me that is when she has paid for half of and gone to an MC session.

Did you tell her all of that including the part about paying?
Is it a carrot on a string or is it a boundary because you know it's healthier for you, your R and therefore your children if you and W get things moving in the right direction before you have sex? Is going to one visit with MC enough to indicate that things are moving in the right direction? I don't know the answer to that for you.

I have no opinion on whether you should have sex with your W or not. But if you do, realize that you went into it with your eyes wide open. She didn't cast a spell and make you do it. I get that you would love to have sex with her but it's better to be honest about it than to set a boundary that's not really a boundary.

The "sexual banter" blurs that line don't you think?

I suppose in a way it's my way of controlling how she tries to control me.

It's my experience that mind-reading and assigning roles to others is a fruitless endeavor. What other people do shouldn't change your path if you're being the man you want to be.

Is it difficult to stay on that path? Yes. But do you want to be constantly giving your power away to other people and then blaming them for how your life is?

I know this is hard, I've had to walk the path of leaving all the fear that leads to being in victim/persecutor/rescuer triangle behind to become a very different person.

It's been difficult, still is at times but so worth the work.

[T1000]

T, I'm not trying to tell you what to do. I would like to see you have a loving, adult R with your W. I don't know if that's what you want. Your goals are your goals.

This is difficult stuff but we each have to figure out who we want to be and how we want to conduct our lives. Having boundaries helps us do that but setting those is difficult in the beginning. Once you see the power in it, it becomes easier because your life becomes easier.

You have shifting boundaries. You say things and I think you want to mean them but when it gets tough, you move that line just a bit, just far enough that it's no longer painful.

I know I do and I tend to feel it when I do then I'm disappointed in myself. Something happened last night in regards to the time I have off work, I knew where I stood because I have thought about before but when we spoke I moved the line a bit.
Looking back it makes it more difficult later on than it does easier at the time.

I told her that we wouldn't be having sex until we started to work on the R.
To me that is when she has paid for half of and gone to an MC session.

Did you tell her all of that including the part about paying?
Is it a carrot on a string or is it a boundary because you know it's healthier for you, your R and therefore your children if you and W get things moving in the right direction before you have sex? Is going to one visit with MC enough to indicate that things are moving in the right direction? I don't know the answer to that for you.

I didn't mention the part about paying. I just told her I found an MC and why I think it is one we should try and that it is £** each. I was concerned she would say she couldn't afford it. Strictly speaking she probably can't, just like I can't.
The more sacrifices we both have to make imo the more invested we are.
That might be seen as controlling but it's a way of me measuring which I need right now.

I have no opinion on whether you should have sex with your W or not. But if you do, realize that you went into it with your eyes wide open. She didn't cast a spell and make you do it. I get that you would love to have sex with her but it's better to be honest about it than to set a boundary that's not really a boundary.

I do realize that. In the past I have been blind to her manipulations. I am more aware of them now than ever even though I don't think I see everything yet and I may never fully.
Yes I would like to have sex with her. I really wanted to last night.
I owed to myself to stand by what I said to her and what I said on here.

I get confused on how it is a boundary or not.
I agreed that I shouldn't fall for her wanting sex without her working on the R.
She has agreed to go and pay for MC.
MC, to me, once we have been, is her working on the R.


I'm not saying it is or is not the right time after the first appointment to start having sex but that is where I thought it's a better place for it to be.

At what point should it happen? There is no black and white answer to when.
I'm not going keep posting on here until someone say's now is the time because that's not going happen.

The "sexual banter" blurs that line don't you think?

Yes it does.

I suppose in a way it's my way of controlling how she tries to control me.

It's my experience that mind-reading and assigning roles to others is a fruitless endeavor. What other people do shouldn't change your path if you're being the man you want to be.


Is it difficult to stay on that path? Yes. But do you want to be constantly giving your power away to other people and then blaming them for how your life is?



I know this is hard, I've had to walk the path of leaving all the fear that leads to being in victim/persecutor/rescuer triangle behind to become a very different person.

It's been difficult, still is at times but so worth the work.

I have a history of mind-reading and assigning roles to others. I see myself doing it a lot....well I notice it now quite often and try to adjust so I'm not doing it but it's a slow process.