New and need encouragement

[Thumpered]

The ashes/business thing, its a way to keep holding you on, plan B type thing, incase his Plan A doesn't make it.

It sounds like you might need to back off just a tiny little bit, and let him deal with his own guilt on his own timeframe/way. I wouldn't encourage to much of that talk, as it really doesn't mean anything, just keep up with the neutral responses. He's gonna need to fall all own his own, and your his security blanket/co-dependant.

[Not Quitting]

Thanks Thumpered

I definitely didn't start the conversation and I certainly won't be bringing it up either. The business thing dates back to long before BD but it would involve a training course and government licensing which costs money so I'd also delayed agreeing to it. Without financing I doubt he could get it started anyway. It's been months since he even thought about starting his own business.

I've been pretty good at letting him initiate any contact unless it relates to S13. It's really hard sometimes especially as communicating is one of the underlying problems in our M.

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H texted last that his mom wanted him to call as soon as. He said he'd spoken to his sister earlier in the week and updated her on the sitch. He figured sis had gone straight to mom.

After he spoke to her, he called me to update. It seems MIL isn't happy - she likes her daughter-in-law (should I be honoured?? LOL) and doesn't want to see the family split. I just validated that she has her opinion and she will always voice it. He once again said that "we're not through yet" and said he'd told MIL that we've only split temporarily but that we are working on things.

That's the one thing he keeps repeating over and over, just about every time we talk about anything - that the separation is only temporary while we work things out. Who's he trying to convince - me or himself? I know, I know - stop trying to mind read!!

I kept my responses short and tried to keep my voice light. Not easy when the only thing I want is to tell him face-to-face just how much I love him, how much it hurts to not be with him, how much I miss him.

We're supposed to be meeting up tomorrow to pick up some stuff for S13. He offered to pay half so I suggested that perhaps he should be involved in the shopping as well. He's also asked if he can come along on Friday when I go to pick S13 up from camp. Until last night he had said he didn't think he could get the time off work. Him asking if he can come along instead of telling me he's coming is a change of direction for him. Now he's doing the 180s - maybe he's been reading DR without me knowing LOL.

[Not Quitting]

H invited me out for a drink last night, and the talk he initiated continued afterwards back at the house. He wanted to talk about our M and where to go from here. This came after spending 4 hours together in a car, driving to and from S13's camp for parents' day, chatting about work, the weather, anything and everything except M. It felt easy, natural, not strained. I certainly didn't tell him that it was harder to say good bye to him when I dropped him at his place than to our S13 when we left the camp.

What he said last night though really opened my eyes and made me look at exactly what I'd been doing. I knew I had done everything wrong in the beginning - begging, pleading, crying, becoming clingy. He said last night, for the first time, that I had gone from one extreme to the other - from cold to hot. Too much of a 180 too fast. That showed me that he'd noticed, but because it was too fast he doubts my motives.

I tried to validate, didn't argue. Let him initiate everything. We talked about where we both saw things going wrong - he felt ignored and unwanted, I felt his work and friends were being given priority over me and S13. We agreed that we were both in the wrong, that he had pulled away from me in response to me pulling away from him, which had been in response to him spending less time with the family - circles, leading to more circles I guess. He also said that he felt that everything I had been doing had been forced, like I was doing it just to save the marriage. Again I tried to validate. We also talked about how family have come between us. I agreed and also (maybe wrongly) told him that if it came down to him or my family, I would choose him. I reminded him that I had suggested looking for a rental property away from my dad's place, but also reminded him that I can't do that on my own as I don't make enough to cover rent on top of the other debts/expenses.

A possible positive did come out of the talk although we both agreed that it may not change anything about where we are going to end up. He really took me by surprise when he initiated kissing and cuddling, tentative at first like when we first started dating but quickly becoming more passionate, and he ended up staying the night. First time we've ML in months, and I have to admit it was better than it had been in a long time as well. When I dropped him at his place (still seems really strange saying that) on my way to work this morning he gave me a goodbye kiss - again first in months. No "I love you's" by either of us, but there was definite passion in the whole night. He said that he doesn't want to just throw away 16 yrs of marriage but that he's not sure about my motives.

He pointed out that we have had more private time together since he moved out last month than we've had in months when he was still living with me, even before BD - although that has usually been spent in a bar, but it has been just the two of us (no son, no father). When he said that we need to keep that up I agreed, and I also added that we need to include S13 from time to time so he knows that we can still do family things regardless of the situation between his dad and I. I suggested that when he comes on Sunday to see S13 that maybe we could take off out somewhere, just the three of us and have some family time. He's also coming with me on Friday when I pick S13 up from camp.

He admitted that OW is still a part of his life, but only minimally - nothing like the "hot and heavy" stage just before and for a few months after BD. He says that he's told her that he still isn't sure that he's ready to give up everything he built with me and that if she feels strongly enough for him, she'd be willing to step back and give him time to sort out his head and decide what exactly he wants to do. If this is true (but his lips were moving so I'm not going to take it as gospel, remembering the "believe nothing of what they say and only 50% of what they do" comments I've read elsewhere in this forum), it sounds like he's asking her for time and space as well. I tried again to validate his feelings and reaffirmed that I was prepared to give him as much time and space as he needed. He also admitted that I had been right about another female friend he has - I had suggested that she wanted to be more than just a friend and it seems that after she found out we had separated she made a major move on him, which he rejected and now she's mad at him because "he led her on". He has always said that she was no threat to me because she is the same age as one of my step-sons. He actually said that I could say I told you so, but I wouldn't take that bait - I certainly was thinking it though.

[Not Quitting]

Journalling, although this may or may not have an impact on R. If H is MLC, and I'm increasingly convinced he is, it could make him worse I suppose. I' just going to assume we're headed for another downward spiral in our R, then I won't be too disappointed when it happens.

H forwarded message from SIL this morning letting him know that MIL was rushed into hospital yesterday. She'll be in until at least tomorrow pending test results. MIL is over 3000 miles away in a different country so it's not like he can just drop everything and go see her. And the time difference might make it hard to get up to date information from SIL.

When I asked how he was taking it he just said "Rattled". I offered a sympathetic ear if he needs to talk - I know generally we should let them initiate contact but given the sitch with MIL me initiating is a far better option. I also reminded him to look after himself as MIL doesn't need to hear from SIL that H has made himself sick and ended up in hospital - he seemed to take it the way it was meant, not as nagging but as concern.

[Not Quitting]

H is still stressing about MIL and has been drinking heavier than what has become his normal. Hospital has ruled out a few things but still don't know what is wrong with MIL. The only thing I can do is be there if he wants me to be.

One positive today. H found out S13 wanted to go to nearby amusement park while I'm on vacation this coming week. He asked if we would consider going over the weekend as he'd like to come along if that was ok. S13 was thrilled about spending extra time with his dad.

H took us both out for dinner last night and dropped H off at his place afterwards. It was the first time S13 had seen where H has moved to. We got shown around his room and had a quick visit with the friends he's living with. It was hard on S13 when we left. On the way home he said he wants his old dad back. I tried explaining that may never happen but that he has to remember that what is going on between me and H is in no way his fault and that regardless of anything else we both still love him.

H seems totally oblivious to the pain he is causing S13. And it hurts me, especially as H volunteered to be an at home dad when Our son was a baby as my salary was higher than his. Now S13 is lucky to see his dad for a few hours once a week. This weekend has been different - dinner last night, amusement park today and H is coming round tomorrow to help clear some garbage out of the garage - his idea.

At least S13 is oblivious to the fact there is an OW in his dad's life. And it was almost funny to see the look on H's face last night when H was trying to get S13 to comment on how pretty our server was. S13 stated "you're not allowed to do that when you're married, even if you're temporarily separated". H looked like he was about to choke. It could be very interesting if/when S13 finds out that his dad had a girlfriend while married. It seems my son has a firm belief in being faithful.

[planet]

At least S13 is oblivious to the fact there is an OW in his dad's life. And it was almost funny to see the look on H's face last night when H was trying to get S13 to comment on how pretty our server was. S13 stated "you're not allowed to do that when you're married, even if you're temporarily separated". H looked like he was about to choke. It could be very interesting if/when S13 finds out that his dad had a girlfriend while married. It seems my son has a firm belief in being faithful.

Having and maintaining a relationship with OW is your H's choice. I know it's difficult and heart breaking. Pining on lost love makes it worse.
I've always wondered how we could ever detach effectively. Nobody seems to have answer. Then it's up to us. We have to let go, no matter how painful it is. Just let go.

[Not Quitting]

Planet, I know it was and is H's choice. But I also know he isn't truly happy in the sitch. I know him well enough to know that. But like they say, he made his bed let him lie in it. The only thing I can do is live my life in such a way as maybe one day he'll realize what he's giving up but if he doesn't so that I will be a better person in myself.

I don't intend to give up on my marriage yet and he knows that. He also knows that I can't promise that will always be the case. He has said that he knows I may decide that I've had enough. But for now he says he still wants to try and that's fine with me. I'll keep DBing and improve myself regardless. I know it's going to be a long hard process but I've never been a quitter. A lot of couples would have split after going through what we did in the first two years of marriage but we survived and got each other through a really rough time. I didn't quit on him then and I'm not ready to now.

I'm glad I finally found this forum. It's been really helpful, sometimes in just making me feel better about myself. The first forum I found after BD was specifically a MLC forum - I still believe that H is right in the middle of a full blown MLC - but it was so full of bitter, disgruntled women with no intention of saving their marriage or encouraging anyone else to do so. If I'd stayed there I'd probably have joined their train of thought. The people on this forum are the opposite - even those whose marriages aren't looking so viable.

[chasingpavements]

On the way home he said he wants his old dad back. I tried explaining that may never happen but that he has to remember that what is going on between me and H is in no way his fault and that regardless of anything else we both still love him.

That's good that you had that talk with him. It must be hard and confusing to him right now. He knows that you are there for him. Hopefully his dad will start spending more time with him, as it sounds like he needs that.

[Not Quitting]

That's good that you had that talk with him. It must be hard and confusing to him right now. He knows that you are there for him. Hopefully his dad will start spending more time with him, as it sounds like he needs that.

I'm pretty lucky in that S13 is handling this pretty well. Neither H nor I have discussed details with him - ie he doesn't know about OW and H and I have an agreement that any new partner to either of us (not planned on my part) will have no contact with S13 for at least 6 months from date that separation becomes permanent - but he's known for a while that something was wrong. He thinks that a lot of it has to do with H's PTSD and we're both leaving it at that for now.

I've explained that we both have to prepare to not have H back any time soon, if ever, and that the only thing either of us can do is be a family together that H wants to come back to. The kids in the neighbourhood that he spends a lot if time with have just gone through their parents' D so he's been able to talk to them a bit. I have suggested he not discuss it with their dad as he's best buddies with H and things might get back to H.

H was around all day yesterday - went to nearby amusement park for the day - and all three of us had a great day. It seems to help that S13 still sees us having fun as a family. It seems to reassure him that we are still working on things. He also seems to know that asking his dad to come home would not be a good idea right now.