2 year A confirmed

[complicated]

Fy- I haven't been dbing for 3 years, only since about November when I found this forum and Michelle's books. I have been separated for 1.5 years and got the ILYBNILWY speech about 3 years ago. So, no other name for me.

Hi Dmarie, nice to meet you. I have gotten a lot of good advice on this forum. I have also been trying to enjoy the pool. We don't get too much time to use it especially when you work.

Today a friend came over with her son and dog because they are trying to sell their house. H stopped by to pick up 2 of the kids to go to the driving range and he made a comment about the dog being in the pool. I said the pool guy said no big deal. H says OK you never listen to me so if something happens it's on you. Whatever.

After he left D said was dad mad dog was in pool. I said yeah. My friend said it got real uncomfortable when he got here. He was checking out everything outside and I got the impression he was checking to make sure I was taking care of everything. I'm doing the best I can when doing the work 2 people used to do.

H thinks the kids just want him to be happy. Friend said D ran to her house a few days ago and broke down. Told her what was going on and was really upset. I think she's been holding it in. She kind of takes after H in that respect. I feel so bad for her. I had told her earlier that if she ever wanted to talk I'm here for her. I'm not going to bring this up to her because I don't want to break her confidence in friend. I'm going to let it be between the two of them.

I know she doesn't want to get in the middle so I'm glad she had friend to talk to. I think h is so clueless. But I was still nice when he came over. Talked to him like nothing was wrong and even said I was cooking dinner and he was welcome to stay. He didn't but I'm not going to lower myself to him and be angry 24/7.

I have counselor appointment tomorrow. Kind of curious to see what she has to say. She can't tell me everything but she does tell me how their sessions go. Usually she says something like he still has a lot of issues to work on and that I'm doing good with mine.

Hope everyone had a nice Sunday.

[RosaLinda]

Hi Complicated! Thanks for posting on my thread -- I decided to check out yours. My word, you've been at this a long time. And thru so much. I give you so much credit for standing this long without help. I was about to crack when I remembered lurking on this forum a few years ago, and it has been a life saver and sanity saver for me. It may have even kept my H alive

That anger is hard to deal with, isn't it? My H went thru two angry periods, a short one, lasting 4 months, just before and after BD #1 in January 2010, and then for another couple of months the following spring. Now he just gets nasty when his Tramp pushes him, most of the time he's pretty quiet and even nice to me a lot. It hurts that he ignores me so much, and just walks past me as if I don't exist, but it's a lot better than the spewing and throwing things.

I cannot believe that OW called you and conferenced in your H. And he just sat there listening to her torment you. Well....yes, I guess I can believe it, as these OW have to be even crazier than our MLCers to get involved with them. We can remember our spouse as he or she used to be, and are standing hoping they'll come out of this fog, but holy crow, what is the OW's excuse? Except that they are crazy too! Like Cadet says, they "affair down."

How dopey and typically MLC-ish of your H to get involved with a woman people had warned him against. Whom he has even described as "pyscho" to your daughter. TVS's H knew his OW from their job before their A, and often made fun of her. My H told me that his OW is a bitch, that she only wants to get a green card, is desperate to marry ANY American man to the point where she was looking for someone she could pay to marry her, and that he thinks she would most likely divorce him in a year if they do get married, because she is looking for someone to support her, and he's too sick to work even part time right now. Thinking about these facts makes my head spin. Sort of like in "The Exorcist"!

Sorry that talking to your MIL seems to have back fired on you. I talked to my H's mom too. She was really angry with both of us when he disappeared for 2 weeks with the Russian Tramp when she came to visit New York (to try to bond their EA into something more concrete I think, and was quite successful at this). My MIL blamed ME saying that it was all my fault for letting him come home, I should have kicked him out. I just sort of took that from her, but then more recently, the 3 of us were supposed to drive out to Missouri to a family reunion (being held this week in fact) and he told her that he doesn't want to make that drive PLUS go to Moscow in a few weeks. She called me up and jumped all over me again. I didn't really go into his actions with her, but explained about MLC, and told her what my DB coach had explained to me about standing. And now, she seems to have embraced that theory. For now, anyway, he is her son afterall. But she's been my mom for 38 years.

You say that you are spiraling, but I think you're doing great Complicated!

Good Lord Forever, ""What are you worrying about that for?". "Don't even think about that, it's not helping you at all. It only puts you in a bad place and doesn't help you or your M." "Focus on the positive and make the best of each day. Don't waste your time imagining the worst." Good thing he's a dude or I'd have kissed him!". You crack me up! I guess those things are things we can all tell ourselves, since we don't have a kissable friend around to give us a pep talk.

[complicated]

Thanks Linda for posting.

I read and continue to keep up with your thread. Part of me is just shocked at what I am reading. First of all an online affair that he knows is happening because she wants a green card. Hello! Can you feel anymore used?

I have noticed that your h is back and forth being mean and nice. I don't think I realized that he was mean for 4 months. My h has been mean for about 3 weeks now and it is frustrating. He says he is done.

Though he said he broke it off with her I don't think he has but others think that is why he has been so mean.

I'm glad you decided to go to London, right? I loved it there and there is so much to do. It will be a good distraction for you while he is gone too. When are you leaving?

I think TVS is going to see a breakthrough on this trip and hopefully your h will too. It is about time don't you think?

I wouldn't say that it backfired with mil. I just think that right now he doesn't care what his parents think. Usually he does. I think his mom is very hurt at what he has done. She would like to see us back together though. She said that she doesn't understand how I could still love him and want to try and work it out after all he has done. I told her that there are some things I'm not proud of either. Her response....no one's perfect and we all make mistakes.

Yes. My h's OW has been described by many words, none of them good. haha. The funny thing is yes they affair down and usually friends and family of h have nothing nice to say about OW. How can they not get it?

I know they say it is horrible what they are going through. I am having a terrible time understanding how they can be so stupid! How can they not see what everyone else sees? It's kind of like knowing 2+2=4. Everyone knows it but they can't figure it out.

[RosaLinda]

I also hope and pray that TVS has a breakthru on her trip, Complicated. Her H is such a dope. I hope my H has one on his trip too. Actually I believe in my heart that he is NOT in love with RT as he claims, that he is very aware that RT is using him, and that he is equally using her and leading her on so he can finally get to see Russia. I guess we'll see.

I go to England on Sept 17th and come back on the 28th. That's all the time I could get off from work. I"m glad to hear you liked it there, no one here has said anything bad about it. I was sort of afraid of there being a lot of crime, you see all those gangs on TV.

I can see your MIL being upset with your H. No mother wants to think that her son is a philanderer. Plus it probably upsets her that he usually respects her opinion, and now shows that he does not give a flea what she thinks.

Three weeks is a long time to deal with nastiness and anger. I remember my H throwing a bag of frozen rolls at me once. I felt like the very sight of me made steam come out of his ears. I wish that I could remember what brought him out of it.

Why do you feel that your H did not break up with his OW? Who tells you that is why he is acting mean? Doesn't it feel to you that every stage is never ending Complicated?

[complicated]

Hi Linda. Don't you think all of our h's are dopes? Yours is too. Going to Moscow to be with someone online, really? If you stop and think about it they all are nuts.

My H is taking the girls to the lake this weekend. I'm hoping that maybe he will see that he misses spending more time with them. I really have not talked to him much at all. Only about important house stuff.

Still trying to give him space. The last time he was angry on the phone my response was"I am trying to be nice and considerate and keep you informed. Why do you have to be so mean?" That's all I said. Ever since then his texts have sounded a bit nicer. I'm just not going to take being talked to that way.

I walked tonight with a friend. She was telling me that several months ago she was talking to another mutual friend that talked to my h. My H said to him "yeah I'm mean to complicated. I don't know why." Just goes to show you they kind of know what they are doing but they really don't.

Why do I think my H is still seeing OW? Well, he doesn't come over at all anymore. When he got mad the last time he said I'll do what ever I want. He also got a gym membership to a gym that is not too far from her house but you can use it anywhere. There is one by his parents house too but it's just too convenient that he joined by her house.

Right now though I'm just laying low. Hanging out with friends and doing projects around the house. Since I couldn't take the girls on vacation (no time) I think I'm going to have a girl's day with them. Get mani/pedi's, lunch and shopping. I think they'll like that.

In September I am going to go see my sister in Arizona because D19 is playing soccer there so I'm going to go early and spend some time with her. It will be nice to get away and spend some time with her.

I know what you mean about the stages being never ending. I have no idea where h is in his long journey. Whatever stage where they are extra mean! lol I think he sees the damage he has done but he still blames me.

Linda I think a month is a long time for your h to spent with RT. I forgot who said it is so different when they are living together and we assume they will be right? I think he is going to see just what she's really like. I also think at some point he is going to see just how bazar his statement is that he knows all she wants him for is a green card and she'll divorce him in a year. Really? And you still want to be with her? When will he see just how stupid that is.

Thinking about the weekend. In a way it will be sad because all of the girls will be gone but it will be nice to have the house to myself.

[RosaLinda]

Ha Complicated! Funny that your H realizes he is mean to you, mean enough that he would mention it to someone. But does not try to stop! So sad/funny, that their brains are gone. During that same conversation when my H told me that he is aware RT only wants to marry him to get a green card and would probably divorce him within a year, he said that he does not know want to do (divorce me and marry her or keep living with me as friends, sigh...) because he does not want to hurt either of us. This is a man who is an engineer, a very intelligent man. It is sad to see how his brain has turned to mush. Sort of like that fermented oatmeal RT has him eating for breakfast every day. Yum! Thanks for your encouragement that his trip will open his eyes. I'll even be satisfied if the trip opens her eyes and she drops him, but it would probably be better if it's his decision, right? I wouldn't want him picking right up with another OW.

I'm sorry you have evidence that H is back with OW. She seems like SUCH a loser!

There is an old thread about the stages of MLC. I googled it, and will try to post it here, not sure if it is too old. If the link does not work, google Six Stages of MLC. According to that thread, anger is the second stage and can last up to six months. But I think any MLCer can and will dabble in other stages at any time. My H went thru the anger right before and after BD, and then about a year later.

Six Stages of MLC

[complicated]

You know Linda they probably won't remember the bulk of this either. I have already noticed that h doesn't remember some of the things he says. But you're right, how can someone so intelligent be so stupid? Their brain is mush. But they do have to figure it out by themselves. Just like our little kids and teenagers. I always wanted to spare my kids something bad happening to them but most of the time they had to learn by mistakes.

I don't really have evidence he is still seeing OW but just a "feeling". I could totally be wrong and I know they say that you shouldn't let your mind wander but just the fact that he is never here makes me think that. His texts haven't been mean lately so that's good. Ever since I told him knock it off.

I really thought h was further along than the anger stage. He seems to realize that he has hurt a bunch of people but then kind of slipped back. You know the 2 steps forward and 3 steps back deal.

He is taking the girls to the lake this weekend so I hope maybe it opens his eyes a bit. I will continue being nice but not let him walk all over me.

You do the same. Just think positive.

[complicated]

Haven't posted in a while.

Thursday night h came over to pick up something at the house. He was a totally different person than he has been the last 3 weeks. He was very nice. I was in the pool, just relaxing from the day and he got in too. We talked a lot. He admitted to still seeing OW.

He had just been to the c that day and he asked c why she thought I was still there. He didn't tell me what they talked about after that. I go on Tuesday so that ought to be interesting. He seems to be in the "thinking" stage again.

He took the girls to the lake this weekend so it has been nice and quiet around here. D21 had kind of a break down before she left for the weekend and I was there for her so hopefully that brings her a little closer. We went through a period where we were like oil and water. She told me several times "thanks for being there for me". So, I was glad that I wasn't at the lake and I was there when she needed her mom.

It will be interesting to see how h is when he returns. I have given him tons of space. I have not heard from him all today and most of yesterday. I told him I think that is what he needs. Especially when he is in the "mean" mood. I just don't need that.

Went to a friend's house that was having a small party then we went to the horse races. It was fun and nice to get out. I told myself I was on a small vacation too so I wasn't going to do a lot of work around the house.

Hope everyone is having a good weekend. They seem to go so fast.

[willbwell]

Hi C, I've read your post. I am in a similar sit. Thought we were piecing and moving forward. Now H has gone back to saying he's"done". my sit has been going on a year. I too get so tired of the limbo, but look for any glimmer of hope. I think this is so hard on the kids.

[complicated]

HI wbw, I haven't read your sitch but yes, this back and forth is driving me crazy. My h took the kids out of town this weekend and there was NO communication. I am trying to give him the space he needs.

He was quick to point out the other day when he came over that he is spending time with OW but not what I think. Just what does that mean? Anytime with OW is unacceptable and especially when you have told the kids that you broke it off with her.

I am treading water very carefully with him and hold back a lot of what I would "like" to say. He has not mentioned d in a long time now. Like I said in my previous post, I'm curious what the c has to say when I go on Tuesday. I think she may have a feeling of where he is; meaning if he is as done as he said or if he is still really confused.

I guess I thought when the a is revealed they would start moving away from OW and while that looked like what was happening, he has gone back. I don't know how hot and heavy it is and how much time he is spending with her.

Do you know how long the a has been going on in your case? So it sounds like your h moved back out? My h is still gone and has been now for about 16 months.

I will try and find your thread and get caught up. I don't have a ton of time to get on because I don't like to be on when my kids are around or at work. It helps just reading sometimes.