T, you have to pick an approach and stick to it. Otherwise you're going to be bouncing around like a ping pong ball in a lotto machine with every single interaction with your W. Earlier was about the kids and thus necessary communication. This is not. Ignore it.
And be prepared for the backlash.
-PM
Only just seen this reply now.
Going from what Sandi has also said I should have ignored it.
M36 W31 S4 S2 T5 M4 BD Jan12 S July12 Recon Sep12-Nov12 ILBINILWY Jan13 OM x 2 in 2013 W wants R July 13 I start D. Jan 14. Meet GF Nov 13 Have I changed enough? Jul 14
But some of us tried to tell you this sort of stuff would come from her. Remember you asking for some signs or examples to look for? I gave you the one where she'll try to set you up for sex. You immediately thought that hercoming on to you would not happen b/c of how mad she was and threatening to get a lawyer to proceed with a D. Yet, you actually believe she eas reaching out to you? This came what......24 or 48 hours after she was giving you grief over seeing you babies?
What is you idea of her reaching out to you? What would be the goal? I hope LTH will come back and help me explain the terrible truth about a WAW. She lays it out there, hoping you will start dealing out of a realistic mindset who is no longer blinded by the ways of the WAW'S.
In the meantime, let me throw this out there. In the future when you get messages from her, do not automatically think she's reaching out to you. The only reason she would reach out now would be to b1tch at you more. And that is not what you need to listen to. You sure don't need to take a chance of getting lured back into that unhealthy situation again.
Frankly, you need to emotionally detach from her with the phone messages from her, set up a time to talk to the kids, but don't get into any R talks. You were told to keep it about the kids. Continue to keep it about the kids. When she starts to see her fantasy castle fall down, and she sees you have grown and getting better, but she will use her old techniques of control. If you won't take her bait, and tell her if she is serious about it, she will help from a doctor, therapist, someone who knows how to get her standing on two healthy legs with a very stable mind.
I
Your right, your right. I was told but for some reason I was blind to it. I'm OK with only communicating about the kids, I don't like ignoring anyones messages to me though. It just feels so rude and passive aggressive.
How should I respond regarding the kids? She messaged me late afternoon on Saturday to ask how the kids are. i said they were fine and sent her a pic of the kids, she asked a question about them. I answered it with a tiny story about something the kids did. Is that too much?
I don't understand how this could go from her being pi55ed at my lack of response or interest to going to see a therapist.
When you say "and tell her if she is serious about it" serious about what? If she asks for R?
M36 W31 S4 S2 T5 M4 BD Jan12 S July12 Recon Sep12-Nov12 ILBINILWY Jan13 OM x 2 in 2013 W wants R July 13 I start D. Jan 14. Meet GF Nov 13 Have I changed enough? Jul 14
Going from what Sandi has also said I should have ignored it.
I think you saw it as her reaching out because you WANT to see her reaching out, and that's natural... all LBH have been there. You just have to take a step back, look at the overall body of work, and be objective. *If* your goal is to set boundaries and get off of your W's hook, then you need to remain disciplined and keep your goals in mind.
What she texted you could very well have been a classic trap (I would say "was" a classic trap, but I won't pretend to be omniscient). If you respond, she knows she still had you where she wants you. If you don't, she could use that non-response as ammo to guilt you in the future.
Again, figure out who YOU want to be, what boundaries YOU have that are healthy for you, and stick to it. When you MUST respond, diffuse and validate as the bigger person. Understand the situation and apply your principles.
-PM
M:12y - BD:12/11 - D:6/13 - 4Ds
"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -MLK Jr.
T, you're getting there. This isn't easy and it takes a long time, as in you'll never be finished. None of us are, when we stop growing and changing, we're dead. I learn something about letting my ego go in communicating with others every day but my values help keep me on the right track.
Now about the values, yes, those things you listed are values. It's difficult to make the right decisions about your life until you know what your values are. Many of us are clueless about that until we're put in a situation that shakes us to our core.
If you make decisions that are driven by things outside of what's important to you, they won't stick, you'll be out of balance and unable to stick to those decisions.
If you respond to your W and it's based on your values and who you want to be, that's moving in your direction.
If you respond to your W thinking that it will somehow get something for you, ie, she'll see your way is right, she'll change, she'll like you more, that's manipulative and controlling and will most likely fail.
This is all boundary stuff and the basic premise of a boundary is it is to protect you, not punish someone else.
So based on your values, what boundaries do you need?
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
T, you're getting there. This isn't easy and it takes a long time, as in you'll never be finished. None of us are, when we stop growing and changing, we're dead. I learn something about letting my ego go in communicating with others every day but my values help keep me on the right track.
Now about the values, yes, those things you listed are values. It's difficult to make the right decisions about your life until you know what your values are. Many of us are clueless about that until we're put in a situation that shakes us to our core.
If you make decisions that are driven by things outside of what's important to you, they won't stick, you'll be out of balance and unable to stick to those decisions.
If you respond to your W and it's based on your values and who you want to be, that's moving in your direction.
If you respond to your W thinking that it will somehow get something for you, ie, she'll see your way is right, she'll change, she'll like you more, that's manipulative and controlling and will most likely fail.
This is all boundary stuff and the basic premise of a boundary is it is to protect you, not punish someone else.
So based on your values, what boundaries do you need?
I hate these types of questions. They are important but I find them so hard to answer. I will have a good think about it.
M36 W31 S4 S2 T5 M4 BD Jan12 S July12 Recon Sep12-Nov12 ILBINILWY Jan13 OM x 2 in 2013 W wants R July 13 I start D. Jan 14. Meet GF Nov 13 Have I changed enough? Jul 14
"]Your right, your right. I was told but for some reason I was blind to it. I'm OK with only communicating about the kids, I don't like ignoring anyones messages to me though. It just feels so rude and passive aggressive."
It feels so rude, huh? That's nothing but an excuse. And. even Michele teaches the LBS not to answer every contact. Do you think she's teaching her readers to be passive aggressive?
"How should I respond regarding the kids? She messaged me late afternoon on Saturday to ask how the kids are. i said they were fine and sent her a pic of the kids, she asked a question about them. I answered it with a tiny story about something the kids did. Is that too much?"
Yes, too much! When she asks how they are, just answer with "fine", and leave it at that. If she asks questions about them, give short answers. Why are you taking pictures to send her? Why are you engaging in chit-chat?
"I don't understand how this could go from her being pi55ed at my lack of response or interest to going to see a therapist.
Are we talking about the same thing? I thought this woman was giving you threats of D. I thought she got pissed b/c you she found out that you had been off work the entire week, and she thought you should have kept the boys all that time. She was mad when she found out they spent part of that time at your mom's. She started calling you names and then it led to her saying she was getting a lawyer. Did I missed something?
When you say "and tell her if she is serious about it" serious about what? If she asks for R?"
It blows my mind how you misunderstand what I tried point out. Especially since telling you to expect this sort of thing and not respond. But you did the right thing by letting me know you didn't get it.
However, I am the one confused now. I thought you were wanting a plan in how to deal with her. I thought you were fed up with her games, and you wanted to know how to turn things around. I was trying to help you know how to deal with some of those areas.
If she were to see that her old ways no longer got the reaction she expected, she would try something different......or she would get serious enough about wanting her H and M that she would earnestly seek to become a better person. She would lay these immature games down, once she saw they no longer worked. And if she were to seriously want her family together again, you may even have the opportunity to hear her ask you what it would take for the M to work.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Hi Sandi, I'm just writing a large post about what happened today. I will post in a few minutes.
M36 W31 S4 S2 T5 M4 BD Jan12 S July12 Recon Sep12-Nov12 ILBINILWY Jan13 OM x 2 in 2013 W wants R July 13 I start D. Jan 14. Meet GF Nov 13 Have I changed enough? Jul 14
W sent me a message mid afternoon. It looks lie she had seen a pic via her sister I put on FB of the kids at the beach. She made a comment on what they were wearing. I don't know if she was having fun or being critical so I ignored it.
Got to W's house. I stood on the doorstep and said goodbye to the kids, W looked...down? I was walking to her gate and she came to the door and said: W: When are we going talk about all this? Me: What exactly? W: Are we getting divorced, everything involved. Me: I don't know. W: I'd like to talk. Me: Now? W: Yes, after the kids are in bed (20 minutes until their bedtime).
I stood there thinking it all through, all things were rushing through my head. I cleared my head and thought 'what do I want to do?' I had some time to spare and I didn't want it hanging over my until next Sunday which would be the only appropriate time to do it (Sunday evenings).
Me: OK, I'm going to get something from the car.
I went to the car and had a bit of a think. No staying for food or anything else no matter what. Talk after the kids are in bed (if she can wait that long) and then leave.
We sat in her main room for a fews mins, she was showing my a media box she installed. It was aright mess. She asked if I wanted sort it out for her. Normally that would be right up my street, playing with wires and making it all neat. I said no thanks. She asked why not, I just said I don't want to. (I would have felt pressure to do it in the past)
W: Shall we go in the other room? Me: OK W: What have you done this weekend?
I told what we had done...... Wife then dealt with the kids for a few mins and came back in the room.
Me: So what do you want to talk about? W: I don't know what to do. On one hand I want us to stay married and work it out on the other hand theres so much bad stuff that has happened. I can't move back to (where I live). Me: Even though that sort of thing is important it's not relevant right now. You need to decide whether or not you want to be married to me. If you don't we get divorced, if you do we make a plan to repair the marriage. If we don't repair the marriage all the other stuff doesn't come into it. Discussing/arguing over where we would live is pointless if we don't end up together. W: What do you want to do? Me: I have always stood for our marriage but I am getting really fed up of living in this weird limbo where no one knows what is happening. Either you want to try and fix this and we do the necessary steps to make it happen or you don't and we get a divorced and be done with it. W: What are the necessary steps? Me: We see a MC. You go to see a therapist... (She interrupted) W: Why do I need to see a therapist? Me: Because you do, your mood swings from one complete extreme to the other. You need help.
(She tried to make a joke out of which I semi played with.)
W: I'm not that bad. (she said while slightly smiling) Me: Yes you are, you really are that bad. (I said while slightly smiling) W: I can't see it working without you living here. Me: It has to work without me living here. We have tried 'just starting again" and it failed. We have done "spend the weekend together" thing and after a while it fails. We need a different approach. We would fix it slowly piece by piece until we are ready for the next bit.
W: Why is it always me that starts these talks? Me: You left me. As I said before I have always stood for our marriage. I can't be asking you when your not ready. It's your move, you want back in, it's your move.
(It went quiet for a little while)
W: I would be willing to try the MCing and go from there. Me: OK, you caught me off guard there. I will look into it. W: OK
We briefly discussed what we would need in a MC (as in solution based)
Me: Right I'm gonna get going in a minute. W: OK.
I went to say bye to the kids, gave them a tickle and put S3 in his PJ's. I then bye to all 3 of them and left.
Half way home W text me: Are there any good books that you have read recently that you would like me to read?
When I got home I said: Maybe, I will have a think.
During the discussion I wasn't emotional. Any talk like that in the past and I would have been upset. I wasn't at all. W was getting close to crying when I said if she doesn't want to work on it we should get divorced. Even though I felt like I should stay for a while after the talk I left.
Not sure what out of this was right or wrong in DBing. I hardly validated at all. Tbh I didn't really care that much. I felt like I'm just going to say whats on my mind whether she likes it or not.
After I left I remember thinking, remember to have no expectations. It didn't matter, if this works fine, if it doesn't thats fine too.
M36 W31 S4 S2 T5 M4 BD Jan12 S July12 Recon Sep12-Nov12 ILBINILWY Jan13 OM x 2 in 2013 W wants R July 13 I start D. Jan 14. Meet GF Nov 13 Have I changed enough? Jul 14
"]Your right, your right. I was told but for some reason I was blind to it. I'm OK with only communicating about the kids, I don't like ignoring anyones messages to me though. It just feels so rude and passive aggressive."
It feels so rude, huh? That's nothing but an excuse. And. even Michele teaches the LBS not to answer every contact. Do you think she's teaching her readers to be passive aggressive?
"How should I respond regarding the kids? She messaged me late afternoon on Saturday to ask how the kids are. i said they were fine and sent her a pic of the kids, she asked a question about them. I answered it with a tiny story about something the kids did. Is that too much?"
Yes, too much! When she asks how they are, just answer with "fine", and leave it at that. If she asks questions about them, give short answers. Why are you taking pictures to send her? Why are you engaging in chit-chat?
"I don't understand how this could go from her being pi55ed at my lack of response or interest to going to see a therapist.
Are we talking about the same thing? I thought this woman was giving you threats of D. I thought she got pissed b/c you she found out that you had been off work the entire week, and she thought you should have kept the boys all that time. She was mad when she found out they spent part of that time at your mom's. She started calling you names and then it led to her saying she was getting a lawyer. Did I missed something?
When you say "and tell her if she is serious about it" serious about what? If she asks for R?"
It blows my mind how you misunderstand what I tried point out. Especially since telling you to expect this sort of thing and not respond. But you did the right thing by letting me know you didn't get it.
However, I am the one confused now. I thought you were wanting a plan in how to deal with her. I thought you were fed up with her games, and you wanted to know how to turn things around. I was trying to help you know how to deal with some of those areas.
If she were to see that her old ways no longer got the reaction she expected, she would try something different......or she would get serious enough about wanting her H and M that she would earnestly seek to become a better person. She would lay these immature games down, once she saw they no longer worked. And if she were to seriously want her family together again, you may even have the opportunity to hear her ask you what it would take for the M to work.
Your not the first person to get annoyed at what I do and don't get.
I have always had a hard time getting what other people mean when they instruct me. I think it's because I'm very slightly autistic. When I do martial arts and get taught something, the instructor will explain it and everyone gets it but me. My brother just adds a few pieces here and there and I totally get it.
Right now she is either playing another game or she is realizing that some of her games aren't working. Even though I haven't done everything you said by either failing or misunderstanding some of it has stuck and I have been different towards her.
M36 W31 S4 S2 T5 M4 BD Jan12 S July12 Recon Sep12-Nov12 ILBINILWY Jan13 OM x 2 in 2013 W wants R July 13 I start D. Jan 14. Meet GF Nov 13 Have I changed enough? Jul 14
..... An I the only one who's thrilled to read your today's event? Or are people gonna say that she's still playing? Either way you handled it like a man!
M37 H36 M8 T12 inc 3yr L-dist 7/12:H broke down 10/12:H dad D frm W4. BD soon after 1/13:H wants to leave 2/13:H gpa passed. Feels closer but H still leaving 3/13: S begins
