Hi there Betsey! Thanks for popping in and giving me some solid food for thought. I appreciate your time. I read your stuff frequently on another forum here and always enjoy your insights.
Labug, thanks too! You and I seem to have moved away from the rocky shores and rough waves into the great vast ocean and the day to day doesn't change a lot. It's nice to have something to talk about here now and then.
So, I will allow H to figure out how and when to vacation with the boys and I will just keep out of it, huh? That's the consensus? Hmm. It would be easier if he would say "I am going to do this and I am going to do that, and YOU will have a break for once, is that timing OK with you?" lol. So I would be clear on his intention. I still wrestle with the wish that we could have family time all four of us, and be amicable and all, for the good of the kids. That's why I get my imagination going trying to figure out if I'd be inviting myself along or if that's what he preferred or.... Anyway, no point in worrying too much about this hypothetical vacation.
A lot of what you said Betsey rang true, especially the passive aggressive and just plain passive stuff. But I wasn't like his mom at all. She was like a scraping and bowing yes-man to him, a worshipper and a quiet presence cooking for him and getting out of the way. When I was dating him he lived with her, and used to think it was funny to have friends over and tell them she was his Japanese cleaning lady. ha ha, not so funny now. I had a lot more spunk even when I was in the depths of depression. I think he might have wanted me to be more like her and didn't like that I had a mind of my own. Maybe that's it....
Anyway, also good advice about letting the boys handle their own battles. I'm sure S15 WAS thinking "you're not the boss of me" only with more colorful language, but I've noticed no one says what they think to H because it's just not worth what's coming. I'm trying to model respectfully speaking up against an adult, for them to absorb and practice one day. About the socks thing, my IC thought he was being very intrusive and treating our 15yo like an 8yo, but that I shouldn't necessarily have spoken around him like I did. I could have spoken directly to H then or later about how in my car and on my time I don't want that type of treatment because I don't agree with it and find it very objectionable.
So, what came out of IC today is that I am bitter. I want to work on that. I usually know just the right things to say, but today I wanted to get somewhere so I picked at a scab, emotionally speaking, to share how I really felt about H this past weekend.
I was really annoyed at his leaping-over-coolers-to-hand-everyone-an-ice-cold-soda act. He was being very nice to the lacrosse parents, and I feel unpleasant with the emotion that brings up in me, it's like bile. It's such an old routine, he's a knight in shining armor to the outside world and to those who he vowed to love and honor, he treats us like cr*p. Not that he was this weekend, but he was going way more out of his way to show off to the others what an awesome guy he is.
IC said, "that's manipulative." He's trying to manipulate people's opinion of him, to make them think he's a great guy, when a real great guy wouldn't make such a show of it and would be consistently great even to his family, maybe even above all to his family. His true colors are still there. And she said the boys will see through it too. They will learn that he's just lacking in some areas and they will need to grieve that.
I felt validated having some words to explain my feelings besides just pure I don't know, jealousy or something. I think it's legitimate, but IC mentioned that I shouldn't stop at how I feel about that. She pointed out how sad it is that he is missing such a big part of building his relationships with us, his wife and kids, because of his limitations. So while it is annoying that he snows other people, it is also sad. It is not about me.
After that as we talked about the other stories and events of my weekend in the presence of H, the word bitter came up several times in IC's conversation, and I don't think she does anything without intention. I do think I've done a good job of processing what I've been through and understanding H and getting comfortable in an uncomfortable situation, but at the heart of it there is a kernel of bitterness that I hide and try to ignore.
I knew it was there because I felt compelled to explain to IC that part of what bugs me about H acting so NICE, and also the fact that WHEN I ASK HIM TO he is very accommodating to take care of the kids and make arrangements for them. That annoys me because he isn't doing it on his own, only when I need him to, and ask him to, and at some deep level ... I don't like the idea that he might be an ok guy after all. It bugs me. I'm the good one, I'm holding up everything, I'm doing ALL the parenting, he doesn't help unless i ask and I'm very reluctant to ask. I would rather suffer and complain (exaggerating but only just a little, there is truth there). And that's because I might kind of want to hold onto my position as the good one. It's not a big element of my emotional composition but it's there, and it's not good.
IC helped me a lot with this one. She pointed out this is not a competition. If I win by being the victim and doing everything myself, that is not really a win...and the kids lose. She said I need to figure out what I need H to step up and do, and ASK him, TELL him, to either step up and help out because being a single parent is wearing me down, or ask him for monetary compensation like paying for more housecleaning or whatever I need to get more of a break. I have a million mental reasons not to do this, but I'm letting it sink in to figure out what I COULD see myself doing.
She thinks I need to ask him to take the kids more, handle some of their dr appointments, go do grocery shopping, be the one who takes time off work for their stuff sometimes, because it will be good for me and also good for the kids.
She said that's not making them have a relationship with him, it's supporting their relationship however they are able to develop it.
The details are hard for me to feel really clear on, but the gist of it is I need to tell him to do more, even if I feel like I shouldn't have to, even if I feel like it's easier not to, because that will give me more bandwidth to be a better mom to the kids. If that makes him into a better dad for them I should not begrudge him (or them) that, but in all likelihood his limitations will still be there. Even so I need to ask for more.
So, that was interesting. I really wouldn't have thought I was bitter at all, but I did manage to dig that out.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
So AD, I popped in there because Betsey could also have been describing my H and I've always seen similarities in your H and mine in the P/A dept. I'm of the opinion that my H is waiting for me to do the work ending our marriage, step in and "git'er" done, which has always been my role.
Reading that post helped bring some more things into perspective.
Oh and my IC, who only knows H through my voice, once wondered if my H didn't see his struggle with his controlling father in his R with me. (insert ScoobyDoo face here)
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
Huh, chattiest email ever from H. I wrote a reply, erased, rewrote, and deleted. Leaned toward "thanks for the info, good luck with everything" but decided to sit on it to see if something more substantive came to mind.
"I am moving out of [friend's] house and into a townhouse that has a room to rent in Reston as of August 1. The person renting the room works for the government where I work so I know he is not crazy, in debt or has a criminal record.
I will most likely be changing employers in Sept. I'm not sure what is happening at work with sequestration so I have to do whatever it takes to stay employed and not have to take a pay cut. In this case I think it means changing employers."
So (1) I can finally forward his mail, (2) I guess he's thinking of the kids because otherwise I don't know why he'd have thought I'd need to know his roommate's background check, (3) he's been worrying about his job security forever so that's not news; glad he's taking some action to increase his comfort level. Wonder if he's looking locally; he has talked before of going to colorado or japan.
I think it's funny to compare his email to some of the exchanges other people in DB have. Yes, I married a robot.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
La, I've been th git er done person myself. I forgot to tell you that my XH told people after he filed, "I gave her the divorce she wanted." WTF? It just goes to show you the lies they tell to convince themselves because the truth hurts too much.
For the record, I finally broke the P/A cycle by teaching him how to disagree with me. I didn't punish him for telling me what I didn't want to hear. Slowly he turned that boat around. But in the beginning, I think he said no just to say no, even if it hurt his girls. After a steady diet of being a jerk, I think he didn't like how he felt... Particularly if it disappointed the girls. I let the consequences play out and he reformed himself.
AD, sigh. Big a$$ sigh. Mine didn't like people thinking he was a jerk either. I hated the show too. It especially made me resentful because I was making the bigger sacrifices and eating a steady diet of crow. I can tell you in the end it's worthwhile.
But the key is working on the bitterness and resentment continually. Just remember that you DO have choices. You always have the option to pull the cord and get off the train. I'm not suggesting you do that - only you can do that. But I think it's helpful to have that be your mantra.
That's exactly what I was thinking about the socks thing. LOL I'm sure your S15 was not so nice in his thoughts. My D19 would have been right there with him.
I'll have to come back because I'm on my D16's iPad and she wants it back. Plus I have to finish dinner.
But before I go, I felt all the things you did. I hated the weaseling and I hated being cheerful while I was getting duped. But in the end I'm really REALLY happy I took the path I did. My D19 hardly has any memories of the early days.
Don't feel bad asking him to step up the plate to co-parent. You need it and so do the boys. Don't punish him if he doesn't - the consequences will fall out naturally and you won't feel like the biatch either. I promise you they will. The positive here is that you H IS concerned how people see him. That might be the lifeline he has to staying afloat and rejoining the human race.
I'm telling you it worked out for me. I was friends with my XH before we dated, and he didn't like our friends constantly telling him he was a d1ck. He just didn't like being that person. I eventually heard all the words the LBS thinks they want to hear. But they no longer held the appeal. In fact, last fall I was having a tough time with our D19 being away at college in NY. We were missing her volleyball matches and I was really feeling low. One night I got a text from him.. One that made me cry. He told me, "I've felt that way all along since I left home, and it is hard. I know now that this is a consequence for my choice. But I want to reassure you that she's doing well because of you. You were the one there for her all along, and you did a great job. I could have never picked a better mother for my girls than you, and I want you to know how I feel. Thank you."
I bawled on and off all night. He had been telling our D19 and friends this all along, but it was the first time he told me. That meant everything. It still does.
I can give you a few mental tips on the bitterness thing. It goes hand in hand with forgiveness. You're a quick study, so I think you'll do fine.
Take care-
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Ps. I'm wondering if your H and my XH work for the same company? His job and work team are back in VA, which is why he is constantly traveling there. Beltway bandit? Colorado doesn't need another confused man LOL.
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Betsey's advice to you about really hit home for me. My H does not regarding the kids. He makes no effort and does not seem interested so I just leave him out of it. He is on the same email lists as I am.
I really need to sleep on Betsey advice and see how I ask H to take some of this off my plate.
---- M 39 H 35 D5,D4 M 4 T 9 ILYBNILWY 5/18/11 Left 7/11/11 Divorced 12/1/13
LA, the scooby thing cracked me up! Thanks for the visual. My MIL also waited on her sons like little princes. Ugh.
Accuray, the best way I found to combat bitterness was to begin and end my day with a prayer for God to help me keep a soft heart. Then all day long, when my thoughts turned ugly, I reminded myself that it was my choice to continue or to choose differently. Most of the time I chose to see my girls' faces when I made that choice. They deserved to have a mom full of love. So I stuck to that program.
Brooklynmom, I'm going to search for your thread and post there. Your kids are too small not to start now.
Hugs,
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
My IC's approach was not so much advice on eliminating bitterness but rather pointing it out, which was a paradigm shift to start with, because I did not think it was there. Second, pointing out its adverse potential effects on my kids. She knows my Kryptonite, lol. By telling me it's not a competition, she was saying "lose the scorecard." By discussing with me the effect H's limitations have on HIMSELF above and beyond what effects they might have on me, she was able to pave the way for me to have compassion and perspective.
I'm not much of a pray-er but I have kicked around the idea of a gratitude journal. I once made it through a mile swim by trying to think of something I was grateful for on each of the 42 laps and it really changed my day, which had been a horrible day.
So I think those are some things that would, not eliminate but displace, bitterness, based on my meeting with the IC.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
