Keep doing this "letter" writing...I understand, it helped(s) me a lot. But make sure to delete and empty the deleted items so that they aren't discovered..if W saw them somehow it would be a TON of pressure I would imagine. And pressure isn't good right now.
I have basically had to watch similar with my boys, just be there for them, YOU are their rock right now...explain things best you can without blame on W. It sVcks, but is necessary.
Something that W emailed to me that S3 had written for a school assignment:
"My Dad is like an owl, he is wise, funny, and will do anything for the family"
If/when W gets through this, you will be seen as a hero by your kids, regardless of the outcome. They are smart, they will figure it out, or have already in their own sense.
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
hmmm SA, I started writing about your girls and got distracted by your letter. Hope that's not a bad sign. I was going to say maybe you could say something like mom seems tired or seems busy? How did you handle this T^?
In general, I said that Mom was working on some of her stuff right now, things she needs to think about and process. The oldest got "Look up MLC", since he was old enough and mature enough, and knows what's going on.
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
My kids are too young. My oldest is 12, and I think she senses/feels things but cannot articulate what is going on. I say nothing negative about their mom. I think to myself that if we separate, I want my kids to have two parents that they respect. I expect my W to do what is necessary, and I will do what is necessary.
Anyway, this evening discussed with W her returning to school and leaving (abandoning?) us. I encouraged her to pursue her dreams. I told her that I see this as her one chance to apply to school and that she should apply to as many places as possible to increase her chances and also to start saving $$ so that it does not become a financial obstacle. So far she has done neither. She has only done the application for 2 schools that are 2 hours and 4 hours away. She has done nothing financially to save towards school.
If she did this, she would go to school for 1 year and be away from us. She would then have to do a 1 year residency locally but very demanding. This means she quits her current job, which would cut our family income by 40% for the next two years.
Today I broke a major DB rule, but I've been thinking about this for awhile and was willing to do it. I found that my W has been texting her surf instructor a lot. So does my W now have 2 or 3 ongoing EAs? I confronted my W mid-day and told her that as my wife it is inappropriate for her to pursue these other men. If she wanted to continue, then she would have to move out. I wasn't going to put up with it. She of course argued that she doesn't send them "many texts" and that they are innocent things. I did see one text message because she left her phone on, and it was not so innocent, she was inviting him to join her and some other friends some place.
After dinner tonight, we went for a walk in the neighborhood to talk. My W and I are able to discuss these things without yelling or nastiness. I told my W that I'm going to be checking the phone records and I expect to not see any texts to these men, and if she does need to send them a text, then I want to see the text message. We'll see how long she will put up with this. I was thinking that usually this just drives their behavior underground, but I cannot see any alternative communication modes for her?
This relationship talk went into different areas, and my W was very lucid. I figured since I broached the subject of OM and EAs, that I would also talk about how we're living together. I told my W that I've been making efforts to do things to make her happy, and I felt like she need to start reciprocating more. That as long as we're married and living together, we should make the best of it. My W's position is that she does these things and that I'm especially needy because of BD and other things. She makes a good point here, and I acknowledge it -- I am extra sensitive due to BD and the fact that inside she maintains she does not love me.
My W did check out Craigslist after I first confronted her. She told me about an apartment she found and we talked about it such a normal voice. I think she likes to look and see that there is this other option.
My W then talked to me about her plans to return to school. How her chances of being accepted are slim, and how she knows going is terrible, but for her not 'changing something' is even more terrible.
My W told that she was discussing her sitch with a friend who recommended counciling to here. I didn't encourage it, said if it helped her, then do it.
We talked about some other minor things. At the end, I told my W that I wanted her to be happy, I wanted to stay married, and be a family with her, but I needed to be treated better. She didn't respond and just thought about that.
The truth is that I'm really at a point that I need a little more from her to continue DBing. I really feel that her pursuit of other men, even if she doesn't go as far as a PA is not acceptable to me, and I would rather she move out then stay and continue this activity.
I'm not going to push or pressure anymore, but I will check the phone records at the end of the week, and I will hold her to not texting these guys, or showing me the text messages to prove their innocence.
You stated a boundary and placed a consequence on it. Even DB'ers are allowed to have deal breakers... we're not required to put up with anything and everything our spouse throws at us.
Better to let her know now, early on, how you feel about this. Not because you think it will change her behavior and make her fall in love with you, (it won't) but because you want to protect yourself from more pain.
Make it all about respect for the marriage, not about the pain she is causing you. You're GAL, PMA and happy, remember? The H she will miss if she bolts.
Personally, I don't understand how spouses can put up with an A. But having not been in that position yet, maybe I would too if it came down to it. IDK.
Originally Posted By: SailingAlone
...but for her not 'changing something' is even more terrible.
This feeling is what's driving my W... and probably all the other MLC'ers too. It seems to me most will have to see it through, and figure it out for themselves, or forever hold regrets.
M: A really long time. Crisis: 5 years. She's still worth it.
Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
FY, thanks for the perspective. On second thought, I agree that this was not breaking a rule. I think what has changed is my willingness to define boundaries and risk a negative outcome.
I also think that in my sitch, maybe I've become the H only a fool will leave and this is why the W is staying.
About the "need to change something, anything ..." yes! My DB coach made a good point to validate and support the desired changes because you don't won't to be blamed for holding them back. Let them fail if necessary on their own.
About the "need to change something, anything ..." yes! My DB coach made a good point to validate and support the desired changes because you don't won't to be blamed for holding them back. Let them fail if necessary on their own.
Not only that, but allowing them the freedom to be their new selves makes it more likely they won't feel pressured to leave the M home. This makes it easier to keep some sort of connection, and know where they are both physically and emotionally. I like that.
My W knows I've never held her back, and never will. I truly believe my actions of cutting W space and freedom is a big reason she is still here... and telling me about her world.
M: A really long time. Crisis: 5 years. She's still worth it.
Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
Not much new to report, but I like keeping a journal of what's going on.
Since Sunday when I laid down my boundary on texting other men, my W sent and received texts to a guy from her gym. She let me see them, and they are innocent enough -- asking when the gym session was meeting that evening since the gym is having the roof redone, they are meeting someplace else. She came to me about 10 minutes after I checked and started saying how she has no friends, the people she meets at the gym are her friends and she was deeply sad and teary-eyed.
Sometimes I think the boundary should be find another gym, but then I think even if she agreed, she would just meet other men there. It's not any particular guy, its my W and her need to flirt with just about anyone.
Clearly this bothers me greatly!
Meanwhile, we have a somewhat normal relationship. Some highlights:
1. My W takes my two oldest girls to summer camp in the morning (I do pickups). She leaves for work with them at 7:30, they sit in the car reading books until about 8:30 when my W is supposed to take them to the camp. On Monday was the 3rd time she forget they were out in the car! The first time she forget and got them at 9:30. The second time, she forgot and at 11:30 my oldest came up to her office to get her. On this occurence, my 10 year old was crying because she had to go the bathroom and didn't know how to find my W's office. On this 3rd time, my 10 year told me she looked for my W's office couldn't find it, and then on a final attempt, "she followed a scrub jay" and found my W's office.
My 10 year old has a care-free and happy personality, but she is also very sensitive.
I hate that this is happening to my girls because I think they feel abandoned/rejected by their mom. My W feels terrible about this too, but she seems to try to hide it. On the second occasion where she completely forget until 11:30, she emailed me what happened in a matter-of-fact way, and wrote, "... yes, I'm a terrible mom." I didn't comment or complain. The next morning after the 3rd time, I said to my W, "do you want me to send you an Outlook calendar reminder?" Initially she started to react angrily, but then caught herself and said no, she was going to put an alarm in her phone.
2. In my 22 years of marriage, I have never gone to the barber for a haircut. My W did it. After BD, as part of my GAL and giving my W space, instead of asking her for a haircut I started going to the hairdresser. My W did notice. In a OR talk about 2 months ago, she told me that this hurt her that I didn't want her to cut my hair anymore.
So last night I asked my W to cut my hair. I sit in the chair, and my W caresses my head and kisses me softly on the forehead. I joked with her that I didn't get that attention at the hairdresser.
It is this behavior that I find very confusing. I wonder if she is "trying out" being intimate with me?
So I started by saying not much to report, yet it seems I could fill pages with just what happened over a couple of days
Your poor kids SA. And your poor W, she must get so confused to keep forgetting them. Damned MLC, I HATE it. It shows in her matter-of-fact "... yes, I'm a terrible mom."
That's great that she is honoring your "no texting" boundary, and that she showed you that text. That was a good boundary.
And I think it's great that she actually told you she was hurt that you went to a barber. That was a good 180 you did there! Maybe your're right and she is trying out being more intimate with you. Maybe she sees you've been making efforts to do more things that make her happy, and appreciates it. Good DBing my friend!
Linda
Me 65, Ex 64 M 38 y 2 adult S, 4 G-Kids MLC 11/07 BD 12/09 D 3/14 Dating nice guy 7/14 Engaged to nice guy 12/17
