What do I do?

[sthelen]

So the shock and numbness have started to wear off. Now I'm scared to death for us. He has said for months that he "just doesn't want to be married and doesn't know why" Now I realize she was probably a big part of that. I have competition now. I'm sure she's young, cute and trendy. Ick. Has no kids, definitely more spontaneous and fun.

It was bad enough when he didn't want to be married...now he has to get to a point of wanting to be married again...but also disconnecting from her. That seems like a monumental task. It was overwhelming enough to think of the work involved with restoring our emotional connection...now we have to end another connection first.

I worry I'll never trust him again.

He's making a therapy appointment for us today. Is that a positive sign? I don't know. I just feel like he's a little scared of losing me and the marriage...but maybe not scared enough to really do all the work it's going to take to get this thing back on track. I feel like he might turn and run as soon as he sees how far gone we are.

I feel like this marriage is so fragile if I put the slightest demand or bit of pressure on him he's going to take off. But my more positive side says the last 4 months have been the most difficult of our life, ever. We've had more fights, he's admitted to an EA, he's moved out, filed for a divorce...and yet here we are, starting therapy together and still communicating daily in a friendly manner, unable, it seems to completely sever ties. Maybe we're not as fragile as I think? There have certainly been PLENTY of opportunities in the last 4 months for either of us to throw in the towel and say I'M DONE. But we haven't yet. So maybe there is hope.

Just rambling. I'm home with shingles this week (from the stress!) so my GAL and 180s have been pretty limited. My kids are at camp, I'm home alone. Then I got the email from OW so it's been quite a week. I'd appreciate some feedback on the EA. My DB coach is out of town this week.

[cat04]

Helen,

I will give you feedback but I don't think you are going to like it.

Affairs usually aren't the problem but a symptom of the problem. They happen because people are emotionally vulnerable already in most cases.

You haven't said if he has told you if it is over or not...

Until it ends, it will near impossible to work on your M.

If it is over, he is going to go through some withdrawl, sadness, etc...that comes with the end of a relationship.

You have to decide going in if you believe you can, or even WANT to try to forgive him, or you will be wasting your time.

Forgivness is a choice. Doing it, means letting go, not score keeping, not bringing it up when you fight.

It isn't something that you just sit bdack and wait to see if it happens.

Therapy...

Can be a very good thing. If you are both working toward a common goal.

Unfortunately, many WAS, agree to therapy as a way to say they have tried everything.

Be prepared that that may be the case.

Reading your posts, I read anger, frustration, and fear. Which are all normal feelings in these situations.

I also read things that come across to me as judgmental, controlling, and pressuring.

If I see that, it is possible that your H does as well.

I am not trying to be discouraging...

I don't want to see you, or anyone here for that matter, simply think that if your spouse changes their mind that all suddenly becomes ok.

Things happen that bring us to these situations. And it takes work to change that.

[sthelen]

Helen,

I will give you feedback but I don't think you are going to like it.

Affairs usually aren't the problem but a symptom of the problem. They happen because people are emotionally vulnerable already in most cases.

You haven't said if he has told you if it is over or not...

Until it ends, it will near impossible to work on your M.

If it is over, he is going to go through some withdrawl, sadness, etc...that comes with the end of a relationship.

You have to decide going in if you believe you can, or even WANT to try to forgive him, or you will be wasting your time.

Forgivness is a choice. Doing it, means letting go, not score keeping, not bringing it up when you fight.

It isn't something that you just sit bdack and wait to see if it happens.

Therapy...

Can be a very good thing. If you are both working toward a common goal.

Unfortunately, many WAS, agree to therapy as a way to say they have tried everything.

Be prepared that that may be the case.

Reading your posts, I read anger, frustration, and fear. Which are all normal feelings in these situations.

I also read things that come across to me as judgmental, controlling, and pressuring.

If I see that, it is possible that your H does as well.

I am not trying to be discouraging...

I don't want to see you, or anyone here for that matter, simply think that if your spouse changes their mind that all suddenly becomes ok.

Things happen that bring us to these situations. And it takes work to change that.

I honestly believe that I can forgive it. I do believe it is a symptom, not the problem. That's why I think I can let it go. I would like to figure out what the problem is. He has told me from the beginning he doesn't know. He's been in IC for almost 4 months. Hopefully he has some insight into the problem that he'll share with me in MC.

He has not said if it's over and I have not asked. I haven't asked any details yet. I'm waiting for therapy to do that so we don't make things worse between us.

I would love to know what you see as judgmental, controlling and pressuring. That surprises me...the #1 analysis of me through my friends, family and months of therapy is that this man has me wrapped around his finger and I'm a doormat. Maybe I've done a 180 and don't even know it. It really is shocking to think of ME controlling HIM. I've always felt he was more "in charge" of our relationship.

I certainly don't think he's going to change his mind and everything will be OK. I honestly don't know if he even has changed his mind. And if he has, is that change solid enough that he's willing to do the work to rebuild. Time will tell.

[cat04]

I am posting from my phone.

When I get home this evening, I will take some time and quote some stuff...

[chasingpavements]

Sorry to hear sthelen. ((((hugs))))

Good advice from cat04 above!
I think it is good that he is willing to do the counseling with you.. hopefully you can figure out some of the issues, and start working on re-building.

Just wanted to let you know I am thinking of you, and hope you are doing ok.

[BklynMom]

Please investigate the therapist before you go, there are many many therapist that are no good and can hurt the switch instead of help

[sthelen]

Thanks for the support!

We have a therapy appointment, next Thursday at 5. H made it himself. He insisted. He said it was symbolic. Symbolic of what, I don't know. But it's an appointment, I'll take it.

This is our THIRD therapist. I think we got it right this time. I found the therapist on the marriage friendly website in May and have talked to him on the phone. He sounds very confident. We had an appointment with him in May but then H decided he wanted a divorce and disappeared from the house and filed...so therapy never happened.

I'm certainly willing to call him again and ask more questions if anyone has anything specific I should ask.

The first two therapists that we went to told us at the first visit some version of, "I can't make you stay married, that's up to you. I can help you with the transition if you don't want to be"

I mean no, they can't MAKE us stay married...but I'd at least like them to try. And to give us some hope. Geesh, it was our first visit. We could have been arguing over something totally petty at that point, they didn't know.

I guess it was a blessing in disguise that my husband decided after just one or two visits with each of them that he needed to work on himself and wasn't ready to deal with marriage counseling.

Of course he continued to work on himself with one of those awful marriage therapists...but she doesn't seem to have completely killed our chances yet. Fingers crossed!

[cat04]

Helen,

I said I would point some of the stuff out that I saw…

I am not trying to pick on you in any way…

However, we can’t change things if we don’t see them…

Also he mentioned life being more complicated now than it used to be...I said you have the same wife, same kids...nothing has changed but his job (I think this is a big contributor to where we are). He said, yeah, and me (himself)... Finding a new job would be an easy fix.

This can be considered controlling.

He is telling you his thoughts and you are telling him what YOU see the problem as…as well as how to fix it (even if you didn’t say how to fix it, pointing out the “problem” shows him you don’t agree with his assessment.

Validation of his feelings would have worked well here.

I am having to sit on my hands to avoid emailing him. He is going to IC with the worst therapist I have ever met. I want to ask him to consider seeing someone else. After reading the "well meaning therapist" section in DR I just wanted to cry. I feel totally doomed if he keeps seeing her. She is divorced and has children and totally thinks kids are resilient and it's no big deal. She doesn't realize or care what's at stake here. Of course she's not going to encourage him to find happiness while staying married...that might be like admitting she messed up. She has told him to focus on himself and everything else will fall into place. It just sounds so passive and "I don't care" about the marriage

This is judgemental.

Not just of the therapist, but of his choice of therapist as well.

So by default, it shows that you don’t have too much faith in his ability to make good choices.

While she may not have the same agenda as you, she is obviously someone he feels comfortable talking to and for him, that is what is important.

I gave him the number of an excellent psychiatrist that I saw years ago for postpartum issues...

This is definitely controlling and pursuing.

You are subtly suggesting that the way to get better is to use this therapist.

I did make the mistake of telling him our 5 year old is planning our next Disney trip but says we can't go until daddy comes home because we've never been without him.

I am glad that you realize this was a mistake.

This was also control via guilt and attempted manipulation of his feelings.

I told him he's not getting anymore emails, texts or calls from me. I'm giving him the space he's obviously saying he needs by moving out and filing for a divorce.

Again control via guilt.

My husband read the first chapter of DR! I know that's a rule breaker...but he's told me he actually enjoys reading the stuff I send him. I've cut way, way back...but there was a lot of good information in the first chapter so I decided to take my chances.

You are trying to fix him. To show him how wrong he is. How it is possible to fix this.

What we think as fixing, is often considered to be attempted control by a WAS. And by other people.

Saw H this morning briefly to exchange the kids in a parking lot. Can't believe this is what my life has come to. But, I refuse to go to his apartment...I feel it's the space he created to get away from me and I don't feel welcome there. He says that's not true but whatever.

This too is control via punishing actions and guilt and manipulation.

If you can’t go there because it is too painful for you, then that is what you should say. Instead of placing the blame for your feelings onto him.

The first two therapists that we went to told us at the first visit some version of, "I can't make you stay married, that's up to you. I can help you with the transition if you don't want to be"

I mean no, they can't MAKE us stay married...but I'd at least like them to try. And to give us some hope. Geesh, it was our first visit. We could have been arguing over something totally petty at that point, they didn't know.

No, therapists can’t make you stay married.

It is their job to be honest with you even if you don’t like what they are saying.

Generally, most people don’t go to a therapist if they are arguing over something petty. And it isn’t their job to do the work that couples need to do to right a messed up marriage.

So I think they were being pretty upfront even if their approach could have been better.

I just mean that if he lets the divorce become final it's over for me. I will not remain in limbo after the divorce is finalized. I've got to start healing at some point. Limbo is leaving the wound wide open, just like my therapist says.

Why don’t you start healing now?

That is something that will help NOW possibly improve your situation. Your outlook would be better. You would be more balanced. You will stop building resentments and frustration and begin dealing with those feelings now, which can only create less barriers to have to work through if reconciliation does happen.

Additionally, why are YOU putting a time limit on this?

I understand he filed. I know that hurts. However it is only the end if you decide it is the end.

[BklynMom]

I agree with Cat you should start trying to heal now. Limbo does not exist only if you let it.

I agree with your judgement regarding the first 2 therapist. My understanding is there are 2 ongoing theories in marriage counseling 1. you should be true to yourself and your personally happiness. D maybe necessary for you to find your true happiness.

2. Marriage (as all things in life) take work. You need to work on the problems in your marriage and then decide whether its right for you. If you dont work on it you will never know if the problems were solvable.

[sthelen]

Thanks for all that.

I'm done. He called last night and said never mind, he doesn't want to go to therapy on Thursday. The appt that just 24 hours before he was adamant HE be the one to schedule because it was "symbolic".

He insists it's not me, it's him. I've been a remarkable wife and mother. That I've been more patient than anyone else would ever be. That I'm taking no baggage into my next relationship. He's got demons in his head, it's all him. My only mistake was marrying the wrong man. He's told me that 100 times in the last 4 months.

So, there you have it. 15 years, 3 kids. Ends with a it's not you, it's me speech. Over the phone.