Given the issues with S13 & S15, I don't think having her in the house would be a good idea, and since your sister knows about your sitch, I'm surprised she'd try to impose this additional burden on you.
Man, your sitch is very tough with the boys, that trip to Busch Gardens must have been very frustrating. I remember I drove 3.5 hours to go skiing with my son once and he threw up in the back seat of the car with the flu just as we pulled in the parking lot, so it was 3.5 hours back the other way immediately!
Reading what your counselors said and what URWorthy wrote, maybe the best thing to share with your sons is "just the facts" versus the feelings. The facts are that H has moved out (which they know), and that the current trajectory is toward an eventual divorce. In the meantime, the two of you are working on a formal separation agreement, and you don't know how long that's going to take, or what the overall timeline is going to be. Right now, however, the chances of reconciling or H wanting to move home don't look very promising, so you're not making any plans along those lines. You've accepted this as your new reality, and are doing your best to make the best of it, and in some ways it has been better for you. Then let them ask questions.
I read once that the biggest source of career dissatisfaction is not knowing what the future holds -- i.e. when I get done with this project, what will I do next? Will there be another project for me to work on? Who will I be working with? That uncertainty about the future can be energizing to some, but drives a lot of anxiety for most. URWorthy referred to that in the context of her divorce -- her son wondered "are my parents getting divorced? Why isn't anything happening? Are they trying to work on things? Do they want to reconcile?"
At the very least relieving the anxiety about what might happen over the next 18 months is probably going to help them move along the curve to acceptance.
Since they are teenagers they are probably going to be reluctant to have that discussion at all which will make it harder for you -- you'll have to corral them.
I might not share that you think their father is depressed, because really, we don't know why he's doing what he's doing. I would, if asked, talk about the behaviors that you didn't think were acceptable to you, and why you felt that way, because it helps to form their expectations of what a husband should and shouldn't do, and might shine some light on why you're not pursuing reconciliation at any cost to you. In many ways you're better off by being free from abusive behaviors.
Kids smoke pot through ratchet sockets? Creative I guess? Seems easier to use a soda can and less likely to get caught by the parent who is suddenly missing their tools. Do you think given everything going on it's good for S15 to be in the house alone overnight with his friends? *Any* 15 year old is going to have trouble keeping control in that situation. Friends can be very influential, and having an unsupervised place to party is hard to pass up.
Acc
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Hi there! First of all I agree and would not and have not let S15 be alone in the house overnight. I got him lined up with another family for the night at around dinnertime. So the sleepytime hours were covered!
I agree that my sister was a little crazy to suggest her daughter move in ("as a free live in maid" - ha! just what I need I have two of those already and they don't do cr*p but make more work for me lololol!) I really do wish I could help. The former me would have found some way to be a hero but the new me is just mom to two real sons that need me.
So, for all the 15 year olds here in DB land, you take a water bottle, burn a hole in the bottom, insert a pipe make of oh anything tubelike such as a sawed off sharpie. Drill a hole in the plastic cap and glue in a ratchet. I'm not a partaker myself so I really don't know how well these work, but I've found them in various stages of assembly and covered in residue so they must work somehow. I have told S15 to earn my trust he needs to have no things I might suspect could be used or made into this equipment, so he has all kinds of weird things he's on notice about: tin foil, tools of all kinds, pocketknives, lighters, anything sawed up or broken, on and on. The most impressive bong was made of a lightbulb and came with its own carrying case (formerly a paintball cannister) with room for supplies and a cleaning cloth. It almost hurt to destroy that one because it was a work of some ingenuity. Wish they'd put their powers toward good. I'm laughing too because we don't buy soda because the teenagers say it's unhealthy, so we don't have any cans lying around for them to use! roflmao. or as our buddy would say, roamlafo.
Anyway, people did used to tell me to stop talking about H so much here. I guess I'm doing that. I feel like I'm talking too much about my other stuff, but it's life!
Another thing that's different about me than before, is I used to be really bad with emotions. Just thinking about crying I would cry; trying not to cry made me cry more. It would make it really difficult to have a conversation with the boys and not mess up their heads. I think I'm better now that I work through my emotions a lot more openly. At least now I'm not crying at commercials without even realizing it's because I was neglected in my childhood! So I doubt my ability but I think I need to push through and test it.
I think there are two things. Talking about my feelings as a way to make it more ok for S's to someday think of talking about their feelings. To let them know feelings matter. That they're painful sometimes but less so when they're acknowledged. I suppose I can try to do that. The other thing is talking about our sitch, so they don't have to fill in the gaps themselves and live in uncertainty. I should tell them that I had a year and a half to deal with this, that we did some things to try to fix it, that at this time we are figuring out money stuff. I don't know that divorce is a trajectory if nothing's been filed yet and there's no timeline or goal for it yet. I could honestly say that unless there's reason to believe that we could make a better marriage and family for them, that divorce is going to be likely. I can say with certainty that we're not going back to people yelling and being criticized all the time. Well, maybe I shouldn't say that because it sounds like I'm criticizing h. I wish I could tell my kids that things are better now and they're going to get even better as we heal whether that is as an intact family or as a two house family. I wish they could believe that.
I do think the complete lack of filling the kids in on anything, ie on the lack of movement, is me taking the easy way possibly to their detriment. Possibly the limbo and not knowing is harder on them than what is for me the relentless mundanity of no-news, nothing's changed, still in limbo. At least I have some degree of awareness and control over that sitch and they sit in the dark with no control. I could maybe mention now and then that nothing has changed?
Duh, this stuff reduces me to a blatherer.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
Not blather at all and who told you to stop talking about H and why do you care? This is for you so if its healing and cathartic to talk about H or anything else then do it!
Your son is a promising engineer -- hope he can channel that creativity and skill into something great! My stoner friend used to just use a potato to make a pipe when he was desperate -- I guess that's what happens when you lose your edge!
Sorry for misreading about S15's sleepy time
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
When i mostly popped in here to report on relevant interactions w h and how i felt about them, i wd get responses that i was too focused on him and what was i doing for me. When i posted what-all i was doing i would get responses that i was doing too much and should do things differently. I got frustrated trying to honor and absorb all the varied advice so i took a long break and focused more on other peoples sitches when in db. That helped me to refocus and stop looking here so much for approval. I post infrequently now but try to keep an occasional log.
This weekend combined a girl cousins getaway at the beach with a lax tournament in baltimore for s15. H took over the kids friday, took the day off work to get s13 to and from his camp, got s15s allergy shot, and planned departure around s15s friends birthday dinner. H booked their hotel room for two nights. Kind of a taste of my day2day life. I took off friday morning and enjoyed the solitude. Had hours at the beach to put in some work time and shop and explore while the cousins battled beach traffic until 8pm.
The next day i drove 90 minutes each way to the tourament from 9 to 3 and got back to the beach for my turn as chef. Over the course of hours of conversation my secret came out that h and i are separated. One cousin i had told before but the other two who i havent been as close to, this is the first they heard. They were shocked and sad and told me im still their family (these are all h's side of the family).
The one im closest to, who is my age, i met when h and i were dating i flew with him to california and met about 100 of his relatives who had gathered for a reunion of h's mothers high school class. This cousin and i talked about how clearly we remembered meeting back then and how much we liked each other right off the bat. She told me that way back then she and the other girl cousins talked about how much they liked me and that it was strange that i looked like i adored h and he hardly paid any attention to me. They said too bad thats not gonna last. She said they were surprised when we got married, a few years later. Weird to hear that!
We talked about issues we've all shared with my mil being passive aggressive and confused, and i learned more about their moms, my mil's sisters. They're all frustrating in different ways. We spent s fair amount of time talking about h and what hes doing now and whether he might be depressed or mlc. But not the whole time. We also talked about our philosophies of life and things weve learned about the importance of intentionally enjoying what youve got right in front of you. They all had their own stories to share. I had worried bringing up my news wiuld cast a damper but i dont think it overwhelmed the weekend. We had wine coolers and watched movies and sang, i played the guitar and one cousin played hers too. That was my first attempt at really trying to entertain people on my own, playing and singing. I was good enough. And had fun!
The lacrosse tournament was great. I was happy to make the drive, four times in two days. Through farmland and over numerous bridges, with a full stock of podcasts, i was having a blast. My friends at the games were fun as always to shoot the breeze for hours during and between the games all day. S15 got some goals and we had a respectable 3 wins 2 losses, with a fantastic final win pulled out of a hat against a team that was expecting to win. So fun! The boys piled on the field in sheer joy at the end.
This was the longest ive been around h since december. It was fine. He didnt hover around me, and the other parents were friendly to him. He went above and beyond doing the super guy routine that he does. He brought his own cooler of ice tea and sodas and kept coming around serving people , which was over the top nice. Part of his pattern. People liked how thoughtful he was.
He let s13 stay in the hotel all day saturday with money to go across the street to the mall for food or a movie. I would not have made that decision but i didnt give it much thought since h was "on" and i was "off" duty. They went to a movie that night while s15 hung out with his friends at the hotel, and they slept in through the 9am game on sunday, sendin s15 over with his friends family. S15 actually came up and said hi to me after the early game, which was sweet, out of character fo him currently. I think he was pleased i was at his tournament like i always am.
H and s13 arrived and hung with us in our tent city for the two hour wait before the final game. S13 seemed content with his gameboy and even sat in the team section. Being "allergic" to sporting events this was a first for this season.
Only two weird moments. My friend referred to h as my x husband in a conversation with just me, and i corrected her, "husband -we're still married". It was a knee jerk reaction, in hindsight i think i wd let it slide, idk. It was just the very first time ive heard that word in connection with my h. Was a little weird.
I felt a little disloyal to h after an evening spilling my guts to his cousins. They were so very sympathetic to me and i tried to keep as objective as possible and not seem like i was requiring anyone to take sides. I tried to show compassion for how difficult this must b for him too. But even when i tried to be fair i felt like that just renewed their enthusiasm to support me. I felt like i should leave h's family for him, but the girlpower was too tempting and i really want to maintain these friendships. I dont feel like this is a black and white, good vs evil situation but i do think my story the way i tell it lends itself to people feeling sympathetic toward me. I try to not paint h as a bad guy. I know that for him looking like a good guy is extremely important. Its hard to reconcile that with what happened, but i at least try not to exaggerate or play the victim. Hard.
The other moment was in todays game 2. I sat with s13 between me and h and asked s13 to hand me a piece of ice from the cooler. He did, and then another, as a joke, and was getting ready to hand me a third over my laughing protest and h told him "dont be a jerk". I said, "NO. That is not true, stop it." Quietly but firmly. But s13 said what? What did he say? Stop what? (Argh.) i felt a little out of line, borderline, being so ready to step in and stop verbal abuse. I said oh brother if you didnt even hear then its nothing. Lets drop it. Nevermind. S13 would NOT let it go. I was frustrated because telling him dad said dont be a jerk and i was warning him that we dont talk like that and he isnt a jek and its not an appropriate way to describe behavior that h objected to.... Would be making things worse not better. I said please lets drop it nevermind. And after a while s13 let it go. I need to find the balance of when its necessary to step in, i was too on-guard because its so rare im around h anymore. Oh well, learning for next time. Incidentally i had thought about calling h and putting him on notice that when he had the kids overnight this weekend he should not put his hands on them again. That i was appalled on the march trip and it was not ok. I decided not to make a special call to make it a big deal, and we had no conversations beforehand where i might have slipped it in. Decided since i already spoke to s15 about it in march, that it was really immature and annoying and that it would b ok for him to tell dad knock it off, i needd to just trust the boys would work it out with their dad and b fine. Judging from the tone at the games i think h behaved and they got along.
After the final game i planned to take advatage off my afternoon off duty and take my time coming home, maybe shopping. But s15 came and asked if he could ride with me so he could stretch his legs and lie down in the back of the van. I was tempted to insist on the plan and said but dad was taking you both back home, but with one please, i agreed. S15 told h the same, that he needed the space in the van for his legs. S13 readily agreed that he preferred not to ride with a sweaty teenager, and h said fine.
(Then h got all involved with s15"s feet. "Take off your socks they look wet. Why are you putting on those shoes? You can ride barefoot, etc " i said to s15, YOU decide. What you want to wear in the car is your choice," and i got in the driver seat. Again still torn between establishing new precedents or choosing battles, erring on the side of establishing new precedents. Worried about nitpicking h tho. Will settle in eventually though, it is a learning process im going through.)
Odd thing is, though, s15 rode the whole way home scrunched up in the front passenger seat. I love that kid.
H told me at the game that he has a week of vaca to burn and is thinking of getting a lake house and bringing his friend and his friends boat. Just like the march trip to busch gardens, im not clear on whether i was being invited to go or not. Im not sure h was clear on that either. I think he is vague on purpose, waiting for me to interpret and take action. It is frustratingly vague. Also it is mid july, if he is trying to plan something he needs to get started. S15 has a busy social life and s13 has three camps on the calendar. It sounded like h is in kicking ideas around stage. I think i would pass, miss the kids terribly and feel lost home working while theyre away, but not ready to lend my presence to a lake house with h and the friend he is living with and be expected to act like nothings changed. The beach trip with those two the month after BD was really hard, though i have come a long way since then. I dont know. I will wait to hear more solid plans. I was hoping to get the boys to myrtle beach this summer even just for s weekend, but havent figured out yet if we can swing that.
Final note, around midnight saturday h texted me "excuse me" and a while later "excuse me" and a while later "sorry that was for s13. I farted." I didnt notice the first two and ignored the third. Real mature.
So that's my update.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
Your H lake house plans seem like a pipe dream at this point maybe he will actually get around to planning it.
I have similar feelings to you as to posting on my thread. I sometimes get confused when I get different points of view. Early on I needed to talk about every little thing and hear every point of view on the smallest interactions now its different.
I also try to post on others threads and I find that so helpful to my own process. I still have a loooong way to go.
What are your favorite easy songs on your guitar? I have been working on my guitar but I cant but together a whole song, any tips
---- M 39 H 35 D5,D4 M 4 T 9 ILYBNILWY 5/18/11 Left 7/11/11 Divorced 12/1/13
Hi BklynMom! I just discovered (through someone in my meetup) Wagon Wheel; look for Youtube lessons. It's the same 4 chords all the way through and a catchy chorus people who don't usually sing will jump in and sing. We're playing the Darius Rucker version.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
I've never posted to you, but I've read your thread and advice to others and feel like you have a lot in common with the life I led prior to D. Only I have 2 daughters. But I'm also from VA, so does that count?
Like you, I was separated and in limbo for 2 years before my now XH decided it was time to file. I'm pretty sure that his decision came at that point because his friends felt really bad for me and convinced him to sh!it or get off the pot. He got off the pot. I've been D for 8 years now, and the happy ending is that we're back to being friends and doing a pretty good job co-parenting. But that's water under the bridge.
Some of the stuff you wrote made me smile:
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When i mostly popped in here to report on relevant interactions w h and how i felt about them, i wd get responses that i was too focused on him and what was i doing for me. When i posted what-all i was doing i would get responses that i was doing too much and should do things differently.
LOL, that's the nature of this place. But in the end, I really feel it's your right to blog here about what's on your mind. Who cares if what's on your mind if it's about your H and his goofy ways of keeping you off balance? You're entitled to feel that way. Write away. You know the truth of your life off-line.
Our in-law family dynamics sound very familiar too. Maybe one day you'll see the clear connection between those dots. I do now that I have a lot of time in the rear view mirror. The passive aggressiveness is something I had to deal with on a daily basis, and it was frustrating. I can tell you that that's one area I was successful at halting in his R with me. Of course his mom died a year after we separated, so I didn't have her continually adding more to his ever growing pile of confusion.
Anyway... now down to brass tacks.
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I felt a little disloyal to h after an evening spilling my guts to his cousins.
You've been separated for a very long time, and your P/A H is letting you do his dirty work. I would know. I was married to this guy. DON'T YOU DARE FEEL DISLOYAL! You are a real person with real feelings and stating the truth and clearing up misconceptions is okay. It is NOT your job to protect him from these consequences! He made this mess, and he can't expect people to pretend there isn't a huge pink elephant sitting in the living room.
If you had been separated for 4 hours and were angry, I'd say differently. But the fact is, this barn door opened a long time ago and the animals have long fled. So you put on your big girl panties and let him deal with his consequences all by himself.
You did a great job with his family, and have nothing to be ashamed of.
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(Then h got all involved with s15"s feet. "Take off your socks they look wet. Why are you putting on those shoes? You can ride barefoot, etc " i said to s15, YOU decide. What you want to wear in the car is your choice," and i got in the driver seat. Again still torn between establishing new precedents or choosing battles, erring on the side of establishing new precedents. Worried about nitpicking h tho. Will settle in eventually though, it is a learning process im going through.)
You have boys and this is where we differ. Had I walked out on my girls and attempted to parent like this, I'm pretty sure my oldest would have clearly told me that I'm not the boss of her. It's a same parent thing. And I bet your S15 was thinking along the lines of "why are you saying this now when you're not even around, a-hole?"
Let him be, AD. From what you've written about your sons, they aren't milquetoast boys. They're going to man up and do what they need to do because you've taught them that. So open that door and let the consequences fly.
Seriously, after all this time, I want you to know that you're doing a good job with this - especially living in limbo.
Now, for my personal suggestion:
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im not clear on whether i was being invited to go or not. Im not sure h was clear on that either. I think he is vague on purpose, waiting for me to interpret and take action. It is frustratingly vague.
I strongly suggest you not take the bait. He's not healed enough for you to make these assumptions without it coming back in your face. If you have to assume anything, assume you get a week vacation without anyone too. (What a dream come true?) The reason I say this is that when you live in limbo, it's for a reason. They clearly don't know. They don't know what they're doing and they don't know why. If your H is anything like my XH was at that time, he's not even TRYING to figure this stuff out. My guess? It comes down to that family dynamic. Have you ever noticed that P/A people have a tendency to be conflict avoiders? They hope with time, that all the problems go away without having to do anything.
It wasn't until after my D was final (and my kids were younger than yours when that happened) that my XH *finally* started thinking about things. It's undoubtedly one of the reasons we *can* be friends now. He's filled me in on a lot since then. One of the big things is that he realized he was having a R with his mother with my face on it - and he was rebelling. I'll admit that dealing with his P/A nature led me to be more like his mommy and it probably felt natural to work things out with her through me. It got ugly before it got better. But then again, my XH decided he wasn't really happy with his choices and where it landed him and he was willing to do some self improvement. I doubt it will ever be as much as I did, but he's done something. Many just continue to run away because it's hard to fix problems.
Sooner or later, you'll probably have to be the one to make the decision, AD. I told you the reason why my XH did. But he was clearly waiting for me to do his dirty work so he could tell people that it wasn't his doing. As it was, he filed with me as the petitioner. Who freaking does that? Again, thankfully he's apologized for how he handled things and for hurting me. It's enough for me now, because he's now the friend I need him to be. And he's no longer passive aggressive. I taught him how to man up and it took a little time.
I sure hope this makes sense.
Have yourself a good week and hope the weather cools down. (My parents and family are still back there, and I know it's miserable right now.) Fantasizing about Myrtle Beach is a good thing. What about waiting until off season? It's wonderful with no crowds... as are the Outer Banks. I miss that.
Keep on keeping on. I know how tough you have it. Give yourself a hug--
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
