Still about the W

[Verum]

My W had an interesting discussion on the telephone with her brother last night. Her brother is married about 15 years, and has been having marriage problems in the past couple of years. Well, his W is also in MLC, and he pegs it at 3 years now.

What is interesting to me is that my W is in MLC and is acting in many of the ways that her brother's W is acting. On the phone I suppose she was offering comfort to her brother and maybe (I don't know) telling her brother about us.

Aftwards, my W told me some about their conversation. She said:

1. "her brother is oddly detached, as if he is watching this from the sidelines."
2. "it's been about 3 years now, and her brother is just patiently waiting it out because he's seen the divorce of many of his friends and he doesn't want to go that route."
3. "her brother doesn't think he has options, and it makes it easier for him to be patient."
4. "her brother has said his W has changed greatly, for example, she is no longer patient with the kids."

I just find it ironic that my MLC W is talking to her brother about his MLC wife. I wonder what my W was thinking? I wonder whether she sees this in herself and me in her brother?

My W also mentioned how once when speaking to her sister-in-law, her sister-in-law mentioned having a MLC.

[TSquared2]

lol, I find the irony from the MLC'er that seems to hit everyone's sitch at some point interesting...

It MAY be percolating below the surface with W, but you won't know...just roll with it right now, though you are probably wanting to point it out to W..I know, I know...

Hang in there!!

[Verum]

T^2, yes I wanted SO MUCH to point out all the parallels with my W. She's not stupid, she must see it too. But she didn't draw any of those parallels when relaying her conversation with her brother to me.

[reachingHigher]

SA, I didn't read all of your sitch, just the last few posts including her convo with brother.

Just comparing to my own sitch, H & I thought at the beginning it might be MLC and we got Jim Conway's book and both read it, but I think H wasn't willing to do the work, or maybe didn't want it to "work out" since the feelings weren't there.

Later, during replay, I think he just didn't care what or who the problem was, he just wanted to do what he wanted to do.

It wasn't until during replay, when he saw that his problems weren't being solved, but were getting worse, and suddenly being M to me and having family didn't seem like such a bad option any more, that he seriously considered it might be MLC.

Then he became anxious to "get through it" to the peaceful stage of acceptance at the end.

I'm convinced, at this point, there's no rushing it, there's no pushing it, and the only way out is through.

I think you are doing great, especially not drumming into W's head the parallels between her brother's W and her.

It's better when she can see it herself, and you remain awesome you. The light at the end of the tunnel for her.

Thanks for posting on my thread

[RosaLinda]

How funny/sad SA, that your W can identify the problems with her SIL, but does not recognize the same things about herself. I guess people are sort of blind about themselves. I'd like to know how others view me, would you? I already know what my H thinks of me LOL! 

My hospital paid a consulting firm a lot of money to give us lessons on being polite, really is what they boiled down to. I was flabbergasted when the nastiest, most angry, belligerent employee in the place seriously told me SHE doesn't need lessons, she is always charming

It sounds like your BIL is doing some good DBing!
1. "her brother is oddly detached, as if he is watching this from the sidelines."
2. "it's been about 3 years now, and her brother is just patiently waiting it out because he's seen the divorce of many of his friends and he doesn't want to go that route."
3. "her brother doesn't think he has options, and it makes it easier for him to be patient."

have you spoken to him?

[Verum]

How funny/sad SA, that your W can identify the problems with her SIL, but does not recognize the same things about herself.

It's not necessarily that she doesn't recognize it, it is that she didn't tell me in recounting her convo with her brother. She may recognize it. Or more probably as you notice, people doen't see themselves very well and she may think that she is "not that bad" or that somehow her sitch is different.

It sounds like your BIL is doing some good DBing!
1. "her brother is oddly detached, as if he is watching this from the sidelines."
2. "it's been about 3 years now, and her brother is just patiently waiting it out because he's seen the divorce of many of his friends and he doesn't want to go that route."
3. "her brother doesn't think he has options, and it makes it easier for him to be patient."

have you spoken to him?

yes, I agree. I do want to talk to him now. To think that he's been doing this for 3 years is amazing. My guess, knowing him, is that he never read these books.

BTW, to hold out some hope. It seems his sitch is improving. He just went on a vacation with W and kids. His W left for 1 month last year (he said he wondered if she would ever come back), but otherwise they have been living together all this time. So it seems his sitch is slowly improving.

[Verum]

This morning my W tells me that she is going out with her GF after work today (Thursday). Two weeks ago, I had told my W that we should eat dinner as a family at least once a week for our girls. To listen to them, enjoy a meal together, and just spend some time as a family. My W readily agreed that Thursdays we would eat as a family. It seems she has already forgotten.

When she told me, I reminded her that we agreed to eat once a week and that she picked Thursday. She then said, "well, can't it be Friday?" I replied, "yes, it can, but you picked Thursday."

Earlier in the week we had discussed our oldest D because I told my W I was concerned that she was unhappy and that there are some things that a mother and daughter can discuss that maybe the dad (me) cannot. My W's position is that there is nothing wrong, our D is fine. She wanted to know why I thought that she was unhappy.

So as part of this mornings conversation I continued this previous conversation by giving an example of why I think D is unhappy. On Tuesday I was home before the W and I made dinner. The W got home with MIL and youngest D and then my W went to the bedroom. She changed her clothes, lied on the bed, and started texting people. When dinner was done, I sent youngest D into the room to tell her dinner was ready. 15 minutes later with dinner on the table, and the girls ready, I went into the room and gently invited my W to come eat.

When I sat down and we started eating, my oldest D asked, "Why isn't mommy and grandma eating with us?" I didn't have a good answer, and I could see my D's face and the way she said it I could feel the hurt in her voice.

My W did come about 5 minutes later, then the telephone rang with her brother (which I discussed above) and my W left again.

So this morning I told my W this.

It is funny how the MLC brain works and how her memory is so selective. This morning my W was about to say, "well, I had dinner with you on Tuesday ..." On Tuesday she sat down with us for all of 3 minutes as recounted above.

Also, my W had said earlier that we do have dinner together more than once a week. Then if I recount the week: On Monday you went to the gym, on Tuesday you did this, on Wed we went out, ... I mean, WTF! doesn't she know what she does each week?

this whole conversation was about 5 minutes, afterwards I felt like I was a parent talking to a teenager.

If my W stays home this evening it will just be guilt and not last. I don't like seeing my girls get rejected by their mom, I know how me being rejected hurts, and my oldest is aware of what is going on more or less.

I realize that me starting this conversation is probably not good DB-ing. It has too much of the element of complaining, nagging, and trying to control my W's relationship with my D. But sometimes, I think I need to deviate from DB-ing.

[TSquared2]

I mean, WTF! doesn't she know what she does each week?

Nope...my W didn't, and still has times of gaps...I think their neurons are just mis-firing, overworked, etc. Kind of like when you get a huge, issue, project at work and forget "other" things...know what I mean?

I know you mean well, but please consider saving this sort of stuff for further down the road maybe? I don't think she is at a place yet to be consistent.

YMMV...

[Verum]

T^2,

thanks for the reply. I know you're right. I so, so, so want to send my W the email below, but I just decided that I'm not going to. It doesn't help with my longer-term goals.

But letter writing like this (as well as writing on this forum) is a form of therapy for me.

Here's what I wrote to W (but will NOT send):

W,

I feel like this is going to come across as complaining and nagging, which I don't want to do, but I realize it is complaining and nagging. Also, I cannot manage your relationship with the girls.

I do think D12 is unhappy and I think part of it is due to how things have been between us. WE ( and I say WE) have not had much time for our girls. BOTH of us have been preoccupied with other things and our own issues. D12 sees this. Unfortunately, I think she interprets it as a rejection of her.

You ask me why I think she is unhappy? Well this is what she told my sister directly. That's the first reason. The second is because I watch and interact with her and observe things.

On Tuesday, you came home and went to the bedroom. When dinner was ready, I sent D7 to go and get you. You were lying on the bed texting people. You didn't come, so I went and invited you to come eat with us. I returned to the table and it was me and the 3 girls.

D12 said, "Why doesn't Mommy and Abuela eat with us?"

I could see in her face and sense in her voice the rejection she felt.

Yes, you finally came out to sit with us, but only a few minutes later the phone rang with your brother. The girls didn't see you again that evening because you were on the phone a long time and then we left to go out.

[RosaLinda]

I agree with T, that sometimes MLCers are so confused that they have no idea what they ate for breakfast, let alone what they did earlier this week. I know these things hurt your girls SA, and that your main concern is to protect them. Maybe you could

Great letter to your W by the way. Doesn't it make you feel a lot better to write to them? You should see some of the letters I write to my H and to his Tart too! Sometimes reasonable, sometimes scathing, sometimes begging. I used to keep them in my email draft box but have reason to believe that my H snoops and eavesdrops. Now I send them to my GF in the UK (the one I'm going to visit in Sept) and she laughs and corrects them

Hang in there SA, this is a long difficult road. Especially with the MLCer at home in our face, and with young children.