One giant leap forward!

[T1000]

T,

IMHO!

Hold your horses! Do not send that email tomorrow!

I understand PM, Labug, Adinva and AS and if you feel somewhat confused right now I get that too!

You need to make up YOUR mind in what YOU want to do about this! You seem to be drifting around and turning towards the last advice given to you!
You have received invaluable advice in all kind of directions. Read them over a few times more before deciding anything. Don’t rush in to this!

I believe that all this D-talk in the last posting could be way ahead of your Ws intensions! Look into Sandi2s postings! On the other hand I do agree with them if this is not the case! Hard case!!!
What do YOU believe?

IMO this will put the words in her mouth:

I will just ask if it's financial/child arrangements, a divorce or both.

Use an open ended! If this does not clarify things you can always ask a new one!

You could also consider asking this to her face on Friday!!

I really like this:

My stance on discussing things if it gets that far:
- It will have to be in person. No email or text discussion about whatever it is we are to discuss.
- One thing at a time.
- I'm going to take the time I need to make a decision.
- Any shouting, rude or obnoxious behaviour from W and will leave or warn her and leave during any discussions.
- I will make notes and keep records of what was said.

No emails or texts – beautiful and a major 180!
If you keep the records (I have done this!) then talk about it before you start. Tell her that it is for both of you and give her a copy! That takes some of the controlling out of this!

And this:

This could easily change.

Apply the rule! Hold the decision!

F

P.S. We need to meet up for a beer one day! In which part of UK are you living?

Thanks for the input F.
I'm in the North West of England. Where are you?

[T1000]

I know! Questions like, is it x, or is it y, or is it z? Right?

What do you really want to know, not what are you guessing it might be?

Seeing that you're sensitive to try to reduce your multiple choice type questions, I understand better why you were being unclear. It's really hard when you get conflicting advice here, I know! I don't really think it's that bad to ask her what she's going for. I wonder why you need to ask, can you just wait and see? Maybe she's feeling her way through this and is unclear on it too. Maybe while she's figuring out how to get a divorce you're being so patient and validating her feelings and giving her space to figure things out that she begins to wonder what she's doing. The limbo is hard to live in, but none of us really knows the future so what good is it really to ask and try to find out now what it's going to be. Could you just wait for her to hand you something that is more clear? Just kicking the idea around, not trying to tell you what to ask or not ask, just wondering.

I just feel that if someone asks me something it's my job to reply.
If she can't afford solicitors what could could she hand me?
It pretty much all lies with me. She wants something from me, I need very little from her.

[sandi2]

Just to point out it is a mixture of adinva and labug that you are referring to.

Oh yes, thanks for reminding me. Adinva, Bug, & Gabby are three ladies I really like. I can get fired up over a situation a LBS is going through and my first thoughts at reading the story is usually not as gentle as these three LBW's. They have patience and the insight from your side of the fence. They know how you feel. Plus, they are very sharpe cookies.

Then there's me. I try to give insight from the other side of the fence. LTH (I think are her initials), was a WAW and now finds herself as a LBW. She is experiencing both sides of that stinking fence!

So, I feel that all of us women can help you (okay, the guys can too) and you have to weigh it out and go with what you feel in your gut. You know your W better than anyone else. When you feel you are receiving opposing advice, just bear in mind that you have people here from both sides of the DBing.

[T1000]

You do know she disn't even ask you an actually question in the email. And if you don't have an answer right now and you feel this burning need to reply you can say " I'm looking into my options right now I will get back to you when I am more clear on how I want to proceed"

There are ways to reply.

If you ant a solicitor, you need to tell her. If you don't know yet and want to do your own research first, then tell her.

There are so many ways to go about this you don't need to be worried about. Honestly, I think you are worrying so much about how she is going to respond to you, you have really thought about how you actually want to handle the divorce and what you feel is fair. Sit down with a solicitor and have a consultation to get an idea of what's fair. Then you can chose to settle it with her. If she isn't fair or gets nasty, then you will have to get one.

Is there mediation over there in the UK?

I didn't think there was but after checking there is meditation. Looks like it would cost similar to my solicitor fees though.

Her comment came across like she was asking if I agreed with her with the question mark at the end.

I would rather sort out something about the kids sooner rather than later anyway so I'm fine starting with that.

I went to see a solicitor in April and found out nearly everything I needed to know then. If she doesn't want to go through solicitors and do it between us then I will try that first.
I can't afford a solicitor but I would manage to pay for it somehow if I had to. I can use credit cards, overdraft or borrow off family. W doesn't have these options available to her.

I do feel the burning need to reply to the email. Most on here are saying either wait or don't.

[T1000]

Just to point out it is a mixture of adinva and labug that you are referring to.

Oh yes, thanks for reminding me. Adinva, Bug, & Gabby are three ladies I really like. I can get fired up over a situation a LBS is going through and my first thoughts at reading the story is usually not as gentle as these three LBW's. They have patience and the insight from your side of the fence. They know how you feel. Plus, they are very sharpe cookies.

Then there's me. I try to give insight from the other side of the fence. LTH (I think are her initials), was a WAW and now finds herself as a LBW. She is experiencing both sides of that stinking fence!

So, I feel that all of us women can help you (okay, the guys can too) and you have to weigh it out and go with what you feel in your gut. You know your W better than anyone else. When you feel you are receiving opposing advice, just bear in mind that you have people here from both sides of the DBing.

I appreciate all the input. Rather than getting flustered from too much info I should be grateful of all advice and like you say use my gut and use the info to make my own path in this mess.

[labug]

T, I think some people who try to follow your thread may find it confusing when you type out possible conversations with your W. I know I found one of your threads confusing b/c most of it was you writing out different styles.....and come to find out, nothing had been sent pages later. Just saying that it could affect a person's advice. Maybe you could decide what you want first...and then if you need help wording it, go from there?

Fair point. I think I am trying to back up my thoughts with how I would apply them in the sitch. Never really thought it might be confusing to follow as a 3rd party.

I would like to say this in regards to Advina's advice toward the emai/divorce/children's schedules, etc. I don't want this to sound disrespectful or critical of Advina in any sense of speaking. I know you are getting opposing advice, and I'm trying to state why it may be. Advina is a mature and rational lady and her advice has always sounded very "reasonable" to me. She keeps it simple. I just wish your W was on a mature level of being as rational, and you could reason with her....and trust her to stick to the "agreement" made between the two of you.

Btw, regarding something I said in a post to Bond may or may not apply to another person's stitch. I remember saying that about women, and Advina is correct, both male & females have hormones. However, I've never heard about men committing some of the acts women have been accused....b/c the man's hormones ere out of balance. And again, Advina is talking about a "rational" woman taking "reasonable" steps to correct the hormonal problem. But do you believe your W could be described as rational & reasonable? , I do agree that her having unbalanced hormones does not change your situation. But, you just never know what to expect from her. And if you are trying to find an excuse for her, I don't think it is going to change your situation.

Just to point out it is a mixture of adinva and labug that you are referring to.

Because my W can go from pursuing to hating my guts in 30 minutes just because I haven't said anything says to me she isn't being rational.

What adinva and labug have said is good advice and that is part of the reason I get stuck because their advice sounds correct from an adult, right thing to do angle.

I also think I'm past making excuses for my W's behaviour, especially on here.

Your W is a WAW (in a fantasy), a cake-eater, a controller, unpredictable, an emotional "reactor", and swings to the opposite extreme in a second's notice. This is what I based my advice upon. And the fact you had the history of being a passive "yes dear" H. If you were to agree on all her terms (in hopes of having peace and doing what you think is best for the kids).......the first time you (your relatives, or anyone) ticks her off....she will pull another stunt to prove that she is still the one who pulls the strings in your life.

If that's what you want, then fine. But it will not settle things. It will continue over into whatever new life you try to have. If you were to get M again, she would still try to push your buttons. I have seen things like this with my own eyes, T. I know people like this. As long as she can get a reaction by doing the unpredictable, unreasonable, or extreme.......she will continue.

I don't know that AS noticed that she never used the word "divorce", when she emailed about the two of you working things out. She only implied. But you didn't think she was referring to D, right? The minute AS said she was, you immediately assumed you had been wrong. (Another example of confusion.)

I wasn't always the passive "yes dear" husband in our marriage. I think that caused a lot of arguments between us. I would stand my ground on anything but we never had the skills/tools to come out of a disagreement in a healthy way.
I have been much more passive since she left to try and get her back (not that it has worked in any meaningful way).

Imo there's a good chance that her behaviour could very well stay the same forever. All I can do is change how I let it effect me or not effect me.

I didn't think she meant D when she emailed me, just everything else.

Anyway, it started out with you talking about responding to her email threat of lawyer/D to whether or not to contact her about picking up the kids Friday. Frankly, how do you know what she might or might not do by Friday? You don't. But I believe you might go nuts just trying to make a decision! You can't make up your mind until you're faced with another situation.

If you have not heard anymore from her by the time you get home from work Thursday, I would email her regarding getting the kids Friday. Keep it strictly about picking up the kids. Tell her that you want to see how the two of you can agree on a co-parenting/visitation schedule before you can go into "further" agreements. If she pulls the "playing dumb" card and has the nerve to ask what you mean, then tell her if she wants a D, you won't stand in her way. If she is trying to avoid lawyer expense and work out the "details", you want time to think it over. You want time to see how the visitation schedule will be agreed upon. (Btw, you may suggest that both of you wright it out, just so there won't be forgetting or confusing some of the dates.)

That's just my opinion. You have to do what you feel is right and fair........while maintaining your self-respect. And the reason I suggested you tell her you won't stand in her way if she wants a D? B/c I think if you tell her in that fashion, you will see another extreme change of heart in her! It doesn't mean that you now want a D, but you won't fight her if she wants it. Do you see the difference?

I do see the difference. I was thinking about D last night and how I would feel doing it. I wasn't that bothered to be honest.

Starting with the co-parenting agreement is a good place to start and should give me an insight into how the rest of it may go.

I will contact her tomorrow and ask about the kids on Friday and also mention that we can start with discussing a co-parenting schedule and if that goes well we can look at the rest.

Good stuff, T! You CAN do this.

I was going to clarify that it was my post that went into hormones. While I don't at all mind being confused with Ad, she might not want to have my thoughts attached to her name.

The point of the hormone comparison is, we ALL have stuff we have to deal with. Your W gets to deal with hers, you get to deal with yours. There is nothing that she does or says that you have to respond to (except stuff about the kids).

What she does should not dictate your actions.

Your values should dictate your actions. If she calls you a snake, you can say "W, when call me a snake, I feel hurt by that. If you continue to call me a snake, I'm hanging up the phone." Done. No drama.

If someone hurts you don't have to hurt them back, that doesn't put more points on your scoreboard.

Drop the thoughts and language that convey the idea that there will be a winner in all this.

Yes, one may get more stuff than the other but that's not a win. Hopefully you'll both come out financially no worse than you were going in. Keep your kids at the forefront of your mind with every interaction.

I think mediation is a great route for you and W. If not mediation then think about ding all "talking" via email. Neither of you are at a place where you can be unemotional about this face to face. It's easier to maintain distance and have time to think through responses when using email. It also gives you a written record of what was said.

I wouldn't text because it's too easy to say something you could regret.

T, what kind of man do you want to be, what are your values?

The rest becomes so much easier when you know that.

[labug]

Remember the 48 hour cooling off period. You are much of the time driven by emotion, believe me I get it. I've made many harmful decisions throughout my life by letting my emotions control my head.

Nothing has to be decided today.

[AnotherStander]

I don't know that AS noticed that she never used the word "divorce", when she emailed about the two of you working things out. She only implied. But you didn't think she was referring to D, right? The minute AS said she was, you immediately assumed you had been wrong. (Another example of confusion.)

My apologies, I must have inferred that from all the talk about solicitors, division of the equity after the house sells and such.

If you have not heard anymore from her by the time you get home from work Thursday, I would email her regarding getting the kids Friday. Keep it strictly about picking up the kids. Tell her that you want to see how the two of you can agree on a co-parenting/visitation schedule before you can go into "further" agreements. If she pulls the "playing dumb" card and has the nerve to ask what you mean, then tell her if she wants a D, you won't stand in her way. If she is trying to avoid lawyer expense and work out the "details", you want time to think it over. You want time to see how the visitation schedule will be agreed upon. (Btw, you may suggest that both of you wright it out, just so there won't be forgetting or confusing some of the dates.)

^^^This is great advice!^^^

[Fartiltre]

The title in the mail was divorce!
....or am I reading it in a wrong way?

F

[T1000]

The title in the mail was divorce!
....or am I reading it in a wrong way?

F

It was.
I thought that too today.

The title has been "Divorce" for the last few emails. She emailed me with her findings after seeing a solicitor about divorce.

I don't know whether she wants us to work out a divorce between us or just everything else. No doubt I will find out soon enough.