Run and hide your crazy

[complicated]

And when they get mean is the time when detachment really does help. The vets know what they are talking about.

I was pretty detached a while back and his mood swings didn't bother me as much. When things seemed to be getting better I let myself off my guard a bit and started showing him more interest, affection etc. Then the revelation about OW I even said we can work through this. Then bam! He gets mean and I'm trying to big time detach again. I just don't know what happened.

I've been at this a lot longer than you and have heard "I'm done" before. In your case I definitely wouldn't listen to him. I feel like you have a while to go with his craziness. In my case, I don't know. I really feel like he was starting to show signs of moving through his mlc but I don't know. I"m definitely no expert and have no idea what to expect next. Maybe it's all part of his mood swings.

I continually work on me because I really do see that I needed to change. I didn't like what I saw when H told stories. Now I know that he has rewritten history; every day of every year wasn't horrible but I do know there is some truth in there. Now will he ever see the changes he needs to make? That's the question. Unfortunately in my case in may not matter. He said he doesn't love me anymore and I don't believe he has really given up OW. Even though the kids don't like her and what she represents, he doesn't seem to care. He said it's time for him to be happy. Funny thing is then he says he hasn't been happy for the last 5 years. Three of them were with her. lol.

Enjoy your time with him at the casino. Those times alone are times when you don't have to walk on eggshells.

[mizjjd]

He's not exactly mean. Lol, maybe I don't know what mean is. Its more a case of neglect than actual persecution. Much of his spew is not directed at me, rather at the world. Ie, Angelina Jolie and 8 year olds who attend marathons, and starving nations, and people of a different race.

For me personally, he doesn't "look at me that way" regarding the sweetnesses etc. And he hasn't for a long long time. He has forgotten my birthday 4 times (first time was my 30th), and I lost track of how many times he's forgotten our anniversary. He doesn't celebrate Valentine's Day. He doesn't want to go out socially with me. He doesn't do "acts of service". He doesn't want to hear or say "I love you."

However, when those R talks sneak up on us, he says "I have never said I don't love you. I do love you." And, he tells me that I have taken his disinterest too seriously. That it doesn't "mean" anything regarding the end of our marriage. (Maybe somewhat like Dawn's H?) My H feels that the fact that he "comes home, talks to me, spoons me at night" speaks more loudly than the OW and the neglect.

From my perspective, it might have overshadowed the neglect, but does NOT overshadow the OW. So, from what I understand my H to say, he may or may not leave when the twins turn 18. Much of this hinges on his parents' health too. He seems to have an attitude of disbelief that this, our M, can really be "all there is" to M. He sees TV and movies and "other people" who seem to be having so much "more". And naturally, I am the one who's at fault.

And, I have asked H to leave 4 times. I sometimes wonder if he knows not leaving has empowered me a bit? I am not "worried" about him leaving like I was. Well, I worry about how the bills will get paid.

H hasn't presented me with too many of my "errors" really. He just doesn't like who I am. And well, too bad for him.

I am quiet. Yeppers, have been since childhood. Was when we met. In fact, I can remember him telling me he found my reserve "classy".
I am "smart". I don't even know if I believe this. What I have done is read a whole lot of books, and amassed a decent vocabulary. But generally speaking, I don't use a $3.00 word when a $0.50 one will do. However, in arguments, I am not above reversing this. Ahem. That is a work in process.
I'm not a good housekeeper. This is sort of true. I do pick up after myself, but I'm not terrific at picking up after others. Also not great at getting others, 4 kids and 1 H to pick up after themselves. So. The house is not Martha Stewart quality. But its not gonna be on a hoarder episode either. And some of this is probably passive aggressive on my part. For instance, making the bed. H has stated he wants the bed made. And I do this. However, I feel that the last person out should be the bed maker. H feels the woman should be the bed maker. So fine, lol, I'll make the bed but you have to dig your socks out of the laundry basket. Juvenile of me. And not necessarily consciously done. Just seems to work out that way.
I disagree with H. Yes, I do. I just don't know what to say about this. H seems to think if we're not in lockstep that I am "against" him. This actually leads me to speak up less, which makes me even more quiet. Vicious circle.

I'm sorry your H has said such harsh things to you. That must have been very difficult for you to hear. It is awesome that you remain steadfast regardless. It may take a long while for him to realize that happiness is internal. I'm not sure, has his time with ow been as an affair only? Or have they been living together?

Enjoy your time with him at the casino.

Lol. I must have miscommunicated. I do not join H at the casino. Never have. Couldn't actually, because he goes to Windsor and I don't have a passport. And I work. Every weekend. Well, every day lol. And someone has to stay home and play grown up.

And this morning, I get to walk to fastfoodland because the kids have taken the cars to work. But that's ok. Its only a mile. And its not raining. Its gonna be a good day. Cause I say so. ~~ ~~

[RosaLinda]

Ah J, I think you have hit the nail on the head when you said that your H "seems to have an attitude of disbelief that this, our M, can really be "all there is" to M. He sees TV and movies and "other people" who seem to be having so much "more". And naturally, I am the one who's at fault."

These men can't see that love is a choice. That a R takes work, and it has to be their choice to do the things that show their partner that she is loved and cherished. I think MLC makes it worse, but in your case think your H never did have much of a loving attitude towards you. But as you say, his emails show he is capable. My H says he decided not to show me love, affection, kindness, because he "has never been an affectionate type of person and is tired of faking it." But his emails and gifts to his OW show differently too. he knows exactly how to make a woman feel loved. RT even wrote it to him -- he "knows how to please a woman." arrrgggghhh

Here is my hope for us, J, and all of us in this situation. Our Hs have reverted to childhood, and are students at MLC High. I'm hoping that when they graduate, and return to real life (us) they will remember the lessons they learned from their OW about how to "please a woman" and will carry them into our new, improved marriages. Even your hard case of a H. Do you think it's possible?

[reachingHigher]

I read:

Enjoy your time with him at the casino.

...to mean ...

Enjoy your time alone while he is separately at the casino.

I'm always enjoying your perspective, mizjjd, and always wishing and hoping for the best for you.

[mizjjd]

Hey Linda and rH!

Thanks for stopping by.

You may be right rH, maybe your take was what Complicated intended - I can see how it could be read that way.

These men can't see that love is a choice.

BINGO!! Give that little lady a stuffed frog!

H feels love should be like Hollywood "You complete me" nonsense. All the time.

And, in our talks, he has disagreed with the notion that I might be more "fun" if I was treated differently, and if he was faithful. Like you know, being surrounded by his workmates didn't leave me wondering which one(s) he was pursuing, and which ones knew about the one(s) he was pursuing, and hating being there, feeling like the biggest fool EVER.

Any who. H has been texting me about a fellow gambler who H thought was going to be a friend and "business" partner. Turns out this guy is getting on H's nerves. (LOL, say it ain't so!) But the reason H is getting annoyed made me think. H is complaining this guy is "too cerebral", "Like S20". H doesn't get along with S20. H complains about me being "too smart". Now this guy is also a problem because of his apparent intelligence. I see a theme!

For whatever reason, my intelligent H is feeling threatened by those he perceives as overly brainy. This is mind boggling, because my H is one of the smartest people I know. But I guess he's not seeing himself that way right now.

IDK what to do with this info, just food for thought.

Cheers!

[uRworthy]

J, you make me laugh. You are so quick, witty and dare I say it - smart!

You know, when you write about the things your h says about you, my first thought is to want to punch him in his ear (sorry, I am a New Yorker after all).

But then I think that he must feel so badly about himself to project the way he does.

So, I am not surprised about the brainy people that are annoying to him. Those are his insecurities speaking.

It is too bad, really, that his head is so confused and jumbled and that he does not see what he should be seeing.

That is that he has a wonderful family and should be so thankful.

Poor him, poor you.

[complicated]

Your H comparing marriage to Hollywood and TV cracks me up! Seriously?

I wish our H's would realize that they are in charge of their own happiness. You can't rely on someone else to make you happy.

It's a good thing that you have got such a great sense of humor because with your h I think you need one. And don't you think that part of this whole mlc thing is that they are feeling inferior? I think that is part of the reason that OW is a step down from us.

RH was right. I was saying that you should enjoy your time alone while h is at the casino. I remembered you saying that he went to Canada and you didn't have a passport.

I would find it hard if my h forgot so many important dates. He has forgotten, or chosen to forget some dates during this whole ordeal and it hurts because I always try and make it special. When they can't do that it makes it seem like they don't care.

I don't know if you were directing the question at me but h is not living or did not live with OW. He is at his parents and mil said he comes home every night. She said she is being very careful not to push him too hard because she doesn't want to cause him to run to her. Mil and Fil not happy about OW at all. I think when you have been married a long time you don't understand affairs. Mil and Fil have been married for 66 years.

Love your humor, love reading your posts!

[mizjjd]

J, you make me laugh.

Love your humor, love reading your posts!

Ummm, guys? I've told you, I thought, that I'm no fun.

That was one of the things on H's list actually (You don't make me laugh. I laughed more in a 10 minute phone call with OW than I've laughed with you over the last 10 years.)

But fun(ny) is in the eye/ear of the beholder and while some people do find me funny - H is not one of them.

Although! Although, lol, I have caught him repeating my non-funny stories for other people. Can't figure out WHY he would want to do that?

Complicated, yes I was asking you about the OW and living arrangements. I was wondering if they had the chance yet to experience "real life" together, instead of just stolen moments. I think for some it does take a dose of "real life", and then even more time for them to admit they may have misjudged the color of the grass (Did I see a post recently about that? For some reason I think it was a Wonka post, or a Wonka recommended post. On how when the WAS finally gets with the OP, they try super extra hard to make it work because the WAS has surrendered so much to be with that OP.)

I don't know. I really feel like he was starting to show signs of moving through his mlc but I don't know.

As I understand it, progress through this is one step forward two steps back. (They do this to provide plenty of frustration to the LBS KIDDING!! The MLCer, while possibly mean and spewing, doesn't exhibit devious behavior like this.) So when you see "progress", don't pay too much attention to it. Validate, but no fireworks and marching band. No expectations, until much much time has passed.

Then the revelation about OW I even said we can work through this. Then bam! He gets mean and I'm trying to big time detach again. I just don't know what happened.

Ok, the following is just my opinion. And I am not a counselor or anything like that. But, I think we LBS's make a mistake in being too forgiving too quickly for affairs. The WAS, if possessing of a conscious to any degree, feels really lousy about the affair. Oh, they may not show that - mine didn't. But they need to have the opportunity to make atonement - for their own peace of mind. If we make it too easy then they can't get rid of that bad feeling. And, this is two fold. If we don't receive atonement, we get to play the martyr. THAT'S a bad role to play, it does NOT enrich the individual or the marriage.

Complicated I must confess I am not up to date on your sitch. I will read your threads at first opportunity, and if I have any insights will share them with you.

On my own front, H said he didn't sleep well at the casino. I of course asked why. He said he couldn't turn his mind off. I asked if it was anything I could help with. He said no, he just has to figure stuff out for himself.

I didn't ask any more questions. But I guess something's percolating up there. Yee haw.... what's next? Lol

Cheers!! ~~ ~~

[reachingHigher]

Ok, the following is just my opinion. And I am not a counselor or anything like that. But, I think we LBS's make a mistake in being too forgiving too quickly for affairs. The WAS, if possessing of a conscious to any degree, feels really lousy about the affair. Oh, they may not show that - mine didn't. But they need to have the opportunity to make atonement - for their own peace of mind. If we make it too easy then they can't get rid of that bad feeling. And, this is two fold. If we don't receive atonement, we get to play the martyr. THAT'S a bad role to play, it does NOT enrich the individual or the marriage.

^ ^ ^ ^ THAT....is some really good stuff.

It reminds me of a parenting book I read a few years ago about how a child needs to have a clear punishment of some kind after an infraction so as to remove the guilt from his mind. After he knows he got a punishment for the deed, he can go on in life happily.

It also explains some of the recent positive turn in my sitch when I stood up and said "I'm not okay with you texting girls while we are out dates. So I'm not going out with you any more until you get rid of that behavior.". Amazingly, my H said he wouldn't any more, and he hasn't. And he seems happy that I drew the line!

Similar things related to that have happened in my sitch as well. We can't just be the doormat.

And...it relates to the book I love "why men love bitches". Not bitch in a mean way -- but a girl who stands up for herself and believes she is something special you have to work for!

You keep going mizjjd! I think you had a real insight there! And I absolutely love your sense of humor. I think H is a secret admirer of it too!
rH

[RosaLinda]

"So when you see "progress", don't pay too much attention to it. Validate, but no fireworks and marching band. No expectations, until much much time has passed."

Geez J you are SUCH a downer, not a single funny bone in your at all. I gotta tell you J, that your humor comes thru in all of your posts, and we all really enjoy them. I have been saying this a lot lately, but the fact that our spouses would turn against and away from such a fun and loving bunch of people as those who belong to this forum is proof that MLC is real and needs to be added to the DSM. Pronto. The fact that your H repeats your not-funny stories shows that he is lying.

You wrote "Ok, the following is just my opinion. And I am not a counselor or anything like that. But, I think we LBS's make a mistake in being too forgiving too quickly for affairs. The WAS, if possessing of a conscious to any degree, feels really lousy about the affair. Oh, they may not show that - mine didn't. But they need to have the opportunity to make atonement - for their own peace of mind. If we make it too easy then they can't get rid of that bad feeling. And, this is two fold. If we don't receive atonement, we get to play the martyr. THAT'S a bad role to play, it does NOT enrich the individual or the marriage."

rH wrote "THAT....is some really good stuff.
It reminds me of a parenting book I read a few years ago about how a child needs to have a clear punishment of some kind after an infraction so as to remove the guilt from his mind. After he knows he got a punishment for the deed, he can go on in life happily.
It also explains some of the recent positive turn in my sitch when I stood up and said "I'm not okay with you texting girls while we are out dates. So I'm not going out with you any more until you get rid of that behavior.". Amazingly, my H said he wouldn't any more, and he hasn't. And he seems happy that I drew the line!
Similar things related to that have happened in my sitch as well. We can't just be the doormat."

rH I asked you a question about this on your thread this morning. When do we know to stop being a doormat? My H is very aware that I am not happy about RT, and knows I do not want him to go stay in Moscow with her for a month. But how do we know when it's time to draw that line you talk about? I would LOVE to punish H for his infractions , but thought I am supposed to just be standing back and giving him space?