My h is not who he was before. If I'd known then what I know now, I'd have moved on much much faster...
Not as a tactic, but for ME... Happier sooner, better for the kids, etc.
Could you elaborate on this?
Move on to what faster? Divorce? Making a life for your self?
M36 W31 S4 S2 T5 M4 BD Jan12 S July12 Recon Sep12-Nov12 ILBINILWY Jan13 OM x 2 in 2013 W wants R July 13 I start D. Jan 14. Meet GF Nov 13 Have I changed enough? Jul 14
C, I'm going to go against the tide just for a minute and give one ounce of credence to what your mother said to you. She said your W is being lazy. I don't want to play semantics with you, but from an outside perspective, I can see that, too. Your mother simply isn't the person that you can hear it from. If 25 said it, you'd be much more receptive.
I'd simply ask you what the D decree says about p/u and drop-off? I'd be very surprised if it puts the entire burden on one person. More likely, it says one does p/u, the other does d/o, or that both parties meet at a central location. If that's what it says, why aren't you doing that? You have a history of bending over backwards, sideways and every other direction imaginable in order to not rock the boat with your exW, or you pad it with the excuse that it's "what you want," it's "better for S," etc.
If you were to tell your exW that your current arrangement isn't working well for you anymore, and asked her if she could pick up some of the slack, such as meet at a central location or assume p/u or d/o per the D decree, would she agree to do so without complaint or criticism?
If she wouldn't, then what is your explanation since it isn't laziness? If she would, then why aren't you doing just that? You are still making this too easy for her. You are still providing her all the benefits of a H without any of the investment. You've heard the saying, "Why buy the cow when the milk is free?"
You might consider reading "No More Mr. Nice Guy" if you have time. It's not what you probably think based upon the title.
I don't think that it is about "predictability" or "knowing the answers and outcomes". Rather, for me I guess it is just about understanding....or trying to understand elements that are whirling around in my situation.
Unless how MLC has been described here has been voided out as total bs, it is helpful on some level to have a framework (though not patently universal) that provides SOME kind of insight as to what may be in motion with regard to the dynamic between LBS and WAS.
It is not a better place to be, but for pragmatics like myself (curse, not a blessing) its just a different lens to look through. I would be the first to tell anyone that arrives here that there is no such thing as "if/thens" in the life of a LBS. I've accepted that. There is just too much going on to have assurances now. However, having a simple framework (that may or may not apply) helps sometimes. And, admittedly, sometimes it can provide a ray of hope that MAYBE things will be back on track one day.....as you can see examples of how real people have made their way through it and somehow come through the other side with their families in one piece.
Like stories and experiences shared in DB, it is helpful to look at a pool of common experiences, relate it to where you are, and say "yeah, I think that may be what is going on with me". Not that there is a template, but relatable ideas, experiences, thoughts, and even language. And, as I see it, it all ties back to the best friends/worst enemies of a LBSs - hope and time.
I suspect that I will get nailed for this^^^^ - maybe deservedly so. Just trying to honestly answer the question.
25 - I will freely admit it. When it comes to GAL right now I suk. Period. I feel overwhelmed with a new job, work that needs to be done on the house, bouts of exhaustion, and a lingering sense of social paralysis and anxiety. I can't seem to get the wontons to to put myself out there like you did. I know it helps, I know it matters.....academically I am aware of the value. I just struggle with execution. I also struggle with finding things that sound "fun". Maybe I just need to look harder.
With regard to XW dating. I've often wondered to myself if that would be a bit of an awakening for her - not that it matters, and not that I am the greatest guy on Earth - but I am aware that it is pretty tough out there - I'm discovering that myself. Nonetheless, I'm going to try to date - I figure it is best.
I think the thought part is that it is not as if XW is out of my heart. So the image of her being with another stings. Though I suspect she isn't "there" yet. Likewise, with me having feelings for her still its tough to really connect with another. And if you say you are looking to "casually date" and see what happens many women will see that as "I'm looking to sleep around with no commitment". Whatever - what will be will be.
C, I'm going to go against the tide just for a minute and give one ounce of credence to what your mother said to you. She said your W is being lazy. I don't want to play semantics with you, but from an outside perspective, I can see that, too. Your mother simply isn't the person that you can hear it from. If 25 said it, you'd be much more receptive.
I'd simply ask you what the D decree says about p/u and drop-off? I'd be very surprised if it puts the entire burden on one person. More likely, it says one does p/u, the other does d/o, or that both parties meet at a central location. If that's what it says, why aren't you doing that? You have a history of bending over backwards, sideways and every other direction imaginable in order to not rock the boat with your exW, or you pad it with the excuse that it's "what you want," it's "better for S," etc.
If you were to tell your exW that your current arrangement isn't working well for you anymore, and asked her if she could pick up some of the slack, such as meet at a central location or assume p/u or d/o per the D decree, would she agree to do so without complaint or criticism?
If she wouldn't, then what is your explanation since it isn't laziness? If she would, then why aren't you doing just that? You are still making this too easy for her. You are still providing her all the benefits of a H without any of the investment. You've heard the saying, "Why buy the cow when the milk is free?"
You might consider reading "No More Mr. Nice Guy" if you have time. It's not what you probably think based upon the title.
I think Crazyville raises great points. i do not think its your mom's place to say what she said in the PAST, to your in laws---sssooo NOT helpful, just a mother spewing at the parents of the "bad guy". Why didn't she call your w herself? Maybe b/c your mom wanted to shame your w, & maybe pressure her to come crawling home...i am a mother and i have been tempted to make a call to the parents of a woman my son almost married. I would have, at MOST, suggested anger mgt training for her, i would have known Not to disparage her. (In my son's case, i had actual concerns about the woman's emotional stability).
NOW, its just totally not helpful for her to raise issues -to you, partly BECAUSE of her past.
Sure, If your mom never criticized her before, yes i think it would be different.
Anyhow, as was asked, what's the divorce agreement SAY about pick ups?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
You MUST GAL. It works for your PMA and helps You gain some forward movement. You have been Stuck in this regard. GAL also, so happens, to make you more appealing and or interesting. Be Less predictable.
Your description of why you haven't GAL, pretty much boils down to You Not overcoming your inertia.
Only you can do that. Don't look for reasons Not to do something, and don't mandate it must be super FUN! A little stimulation or fun or just novel...
Just Look for stretching your comfort zone, taking up a new hobby or any class or JOIN something & meet new people!
See, it doesn't have to be skydiving classes (though that is on my list!)
It just has to be better than obsessing about your pain or your w. Most GAL activities are.
Make sense?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
We are following the D agreement. I am responsible for taking him to daycare/school on the mornings that I have him. When school is out for the summer, I have to take him to XW for the day (as she is off for the summer). I am not being fleeced on this one. Moreover, I would prefer to drop him off in the mornings rather than waiting for her to get to the house. It honestly works better for me right now. If ever the distance gets to a point where it negatively impacts getting to work I will reevaluate - but honestly, it's neither a problem nor an instance of me attempting to be over-accommodating.
You are correct, I am not over my own inertia at all. I am good for getting out with existing friends when I can, but I'm not making any new ones yet.
I don't think that it is about "predictability" or "knowing the answers and outcomes". Rather, for me I guess it is just about understanding....or trying to understand elements that are whirling around in my situation.
Unless how MLC has been described here has been voided out as total bs, it is helpful on some level to have a framework (though not patently universal) that provides SOME kind of insight as to what may be in motion with regard to the dynamic between LBS and WAS.
It is not a better place to be, but for pragmatics like myself (curse, not a blessing) its just a different lens to look through. I would be the first to tell anyone that arrives here that there is no such thing as "if/thens" in the life of a LBS. I've accepted that. There is just too much going on to have assurances now. However, having a simple framework (that may or may not apply) helps sometimes. And, admittedly, sometimes it can provide a ray of hope that MAYBE things will be back on track one day.....as you can see examples of how real people have made their way through it and somehow come through the other side with their families in one piece.
Like stories and experiences shared in DB, it is helpful to look at a pool of common experiences, relate it to where you are, and say "yeah, I think that may be what is going on with me". Not that there is a template, but relatable ideas, experiences, thoughts, and even language. And, as I see it, it all ties back to the best friends/worst enemies of a LBSs - hope and time.
I suspect that I will get nailed for this^^^^ - maybe deservedly so. Just trying to honestly answer the question. Crimson
I didn't ask so I could "nail" you, I was just curious. Lots of people jump on that and to me MLC seems like just untreated depression. Now I can't diagnose but it sure sounds the same and yes, sometimes people do recover from depression without outside help, depending on the causes.
So your W might "snap out of it" or not. But that doesn't mean you can't GAL and move forward in the meantime.
You still have your wagon hitched to her star.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
I apologize of there was an accusatory tone there - I know you weren't trying to nail me. I just never know if what I am saying or thinking makes sense or of it is just me making foolish wishes or daydreaming.
I think you are quite right about the intersection point between depression and MLC. I am by no means an expert.....let me say that again: I am by no means an expert, but I see how the two things can live in unison and feed off of one another. I have had my personal struggles with depression over the years and it really was a catalyst for me bottoming out after BD. XW had been treated for depression for years, long before I knew her, and quit cold turkey after BD and has been off of antidepressants ever since. She talked about it when she was back at the house but I never, NEVER questioned her choice to go off of them....I just listened and tried to support even though I wasn't sure it was the best idea at the time. And, honestly bug, I think that is why I look at MLC when some interest as well.
Unlike when I first arrived here, however, I don't use that as an excuse to not work on me. Likewise, as I have said before, I know there is nothing I can do about it. There is nothing I can do to help.
I sincerely am trying to move forward - and I have made some decent (although "baby") steps. I just struggle with kicking her out of my heart. It's a tough thing to do!
