Raine, you shine baby! I'm proud of you and your sensitivity toward H. It is pretty amazing that H is lucid enough to describe part of the crisis is like having a fog. It really spoke to me because I know what that feels like.
Linda, you said: 'My H describes it as feeling empty and dead inside, with no interest in anything.' That is a very critical symptom of MLC. If you would recall from my post in your thread, I was numb and dead inside. It would seem that Raine's H is slowly moving away from the empty/dead feeling stage and beginning to re-engage in the world around him.
I'm sorry you had to go thru that depression, uR, and am so grateful that you got help and no longer suffer from it. You are a very positive person, is that aspect of your personality new since you kicked depression? Or can a person be positive and depressed?
I'm glad you feel that Raine's H is moving slowly away from that horrible feeling Wonka. It does sound as if he is becoming more reasonable at times. I do remember your descriptions, in fact, I copied most of your posts on my phone When my H is doing something hurtful or off the wall, it helps me to be able to read over your writings. It gives me hope that someday he'll wake up from all of this. I don't think he'll remember a lot of it, as even now he does not believe the boys and me when we tell him things he's said or done. But if he loves me again when he's "cooked" I think I'll be able to bury all of those bad things in my heart, and not have to harp on them.
Besides doing a great job DBing with your H RAine, you are doing a great job DBing with your inlaws!!! I think your explanation of your H's problems to your MIL was perfect. And you're right, no one who has not been thru this could comprehend it, and it's better to leave people out of our lives and problems if possible.
Any more interesting conversations with your H? How much does your baby weigh now?
Linda
Me 65, Ex 64 M 38 y 2 adult S, 4 G-Kids MLC 11/07 BD 12/09 D 3/14 Dating nice guy 7/14 Engaged to nice guy 12/17
I'm glad you feel that Raine's H is moving slowly away from that horrible feeling Wonka. It does sound as if he is becoming more reasonable at times. I do remember your descriptions, in fact, I copied most of your posts on my phone smile
Blimey! Why do you ever bother to clog your phone with wacky Wonka crappola?! Beats me. You've had enough of it as it is.
Hahaha Wonka, I haven't heard anyone say blimey in years! Maybe when I visit the UK! I copied your stuff because it's so helpful you silly girl! It's in a file named "Advice from Wonka," with your "airport" speech, your feelings during your MLC, and a bunch of other stuff people have written to me or others that touched and/or helped me. Sort of journaling, but with orher people's thoughts!
Quick sitch update and then I got a lot to catch up on here and on other threads. Love you guys!
Last night went to dinner with my parents, kids, and H. He came right from work. After saying hi to my parents, he starts going a mile a minute telling me about everything in his day. It's like no one was there but him and I. He was supposed to go to a team lunch, but he said he needed to get away. He went and had lunch by himself. Very interesting to me. I can't believe he dogged a team lunch at an expensive place, where he is the manager, with people from out of town. Even more is he told me, and told me why. He was so overloaded in his mind.
After dinner he crashed in his room to play phone games. I played dance games on the xbox and played with the kids. Then I put them all to bed. He came up about 20 minutes after that and said sorry he never heard me go back upstairs and to tell me goodnight. So knowing he is spirally down from signs I saw I few days ago and it's only getting worse, I texted him and asked if he wanted to listen to a podcast. He says that he has taken a sleeping pill and I might take advantage of him. (I was super shocked by this response. Way flirtatious and not normal.) I just said, "Huh, me?" and he said he would get a new one downloaded. I went down there and right when I came in, he put on one of our songs from our wedding. One of the songs from when we were dating: The Perfect Year, and wanted to know if I remembered the singer. He turned it off after 30 seconds.
He put on the podcast and I rubbed his back. He didn't move away, and that's as far as anything went. I just went back to my room when it was done.
No OW visitations of any kind in several weeks. He has a trip coming up next week where he will likely see one of them. Texting kind of communication yeah, but not seeing them, even though he is getting lots of pressure to.
Then two nights ago he had a group of his new friends over. He continues to have things at our house instead of him going out. He does and then makes future plans for them to come back. The ages of people were 18-35 and I felt like I was back in HS/Early college. The 35 yr old is a very young 35, never married guy who H met and became close to back at S. He says H is his best friend. I think he is a good guy and actually keeps H in line in many ways.
The last person did not leave until nearly 2 am, on a week night! I didn't say a word the entire time about it being late or anything, but I didn't go to bed either. Baby was awake, so not a big deal, but also I thought it was good for H to be responsible for him and for me in this. H told them at 12:30 he was taking out the trash and then going to bed. I think he did really good, but just speaks more to the immaturity of his friends.
During the night he was pretty attentive to me, wondering what I thought of a game, and if I liked it a lot he was going to get it, but only if I did. He kicked my foot under the table at one point and put his hand on my arm to say sorry. I felt this electric, oh my gosh he touched me. And then I laughed at myself inside that something like that was all it took. Maybe I'm back in HS too?
M38,H39 M:16Y BD:8/12 OWDB:11/12 S:11/12-5/13 "Temp" home:6/13 OW dropped:9/13 "I love you":12/13 H ring on:2/14 Depression back:5/15 "I'm done:" 7/15 H moved out: 3/16 H moved back: 12/16 Working on us: 3/17
Then two nights ago he had a group of his new friends over. He continues to have things at our house instead of him going out. He does and then makes future plans for them to come back. The ages of people were 18-35 and I felt like I was back in HS/Early college. The 35 yr old is a very young 35, never married guy who H met and became close to back at S. He says H is his best friend. I think he is a good guy and actually keeps H in line in many ways.
The last person did not leave until nearly 2 am, on a week night!
Raine, does your H ever comment on his friends?
My W's GF is 31 (W is 42) and this GF is unemployed, lives at home with her mother, and drinks too much. The GF is also full of drama and goes from one crisis to another. My W seems to go in and our of the fog with respect to this friend. She'll say she needs a better friend, but then the next day she'll be making plans with her. The advantage of this friend is that she is always available to do whatever (my W usually has to pay).
My Guess is he likes the younger crowd to make him feel younger.
Mr T2, any suggestions on how I could facilitate a conversation between H and his dad? I feel like it really needs to happen and maybe in three months H will be able to handle it. I don't think he could right now. I think if I were there, I could keep it calm and productive. I had a conversation with his Dad several years ago, and his dad sulked about it for weeks. H's brother got into it slightly with his Dad about something political a year ago, and his dad stopped talking to his brother and went upstairs upset. So H is likely the more mature person in this scenario, coming into it with zero patience, highly confrontational, self focused, and volatile. This is why no one in their family talks about anything. Brush it all under the rug.
I haven't asked H anymore questions and he hasn't volunteered any. I had a question left lingering on Skype about the 2003+ episodes of disconnect, and he said he hasn't had time to think about it or respond to it. I've just let it be for now. I'll wait for him to bring things up and get him talking then.
Linda, H has softened up a lot now. He doesn't want to upset me like he did before. I think now he is worried that any wrong move and I'll be done and ask him to leave. He seems almost protective of me and concerned about my feelings. The little man is 15 pounds now. Crazy huh!
uR, I'm so glad you don't suffer from depression anymore, and your description helps a lot. I think my H does need to get on ADs at some point and get rewired. I don't know if he ever will. That plus deal with the things in the past that are causing the depression. I see H acting the same way, that there is something wrong with him, and logically he knows he should get help, but logic doesn't work for him right now. I'm trying to keep that balancing act of giving him space and being a lighthouse. This is a much more difficult stage to be in for me, but I'm also much stronger than I was seven months ago. That girl could not handle this.
Wonka, I'm curious to know how much of a fog he is still in. It surprised me too that he could describe it at this point. It was interesting to me that a conversation from 2011 popped in my head to ask him about, that he had talked to me that he wasn't feeling right and feeling displaced about a year into it. I didn't know how much people in MLC would feel and realize during it, or if it was more afterwards when the fog lifted. I like the stuff you post too. It's like putting a steak out for a pack of wild dogs. Suddenly crazy makes sense!
Hey SA! Yes, he has commented on them. He has negative remarks for everyone. He even says negative things to me about the OW I know, like his coworker ones. Yet these are the people he wants to be with. And for the same kind of reasons. They are younger, or they're sympathetic. They make him feel important. They make him feel better about himself. What better way to feel better about yourself than to be around people you feel superior to? If you are feeling old and time is running out, how better to stop that then to hang out with a younger crowd?
M38,H39 M:16Y BD:8/12 OWDB:11/12 S:11/12-5/13 "Temp" home:6/13 OW dropped:9/13 "I love you":12/13 H ring on:2/14 Depression back:5/15 "I'm done:" 7/15 H moved out: 3/16 H moved back: 12/16 Working on us: 3/17
any suggestions on how I could facilitate a conversation between H and his dad?
Maybe try facilitating some empathetic listening skills between the two?
"H, really listen to what you dad is saying, and when he is done, repeat back what you heard him say..." "FIL, is what H repeated back what you meant to say? Do you have anything to add to it, or correct?" etc...
or am I WAAAAAY ahead of the game, WAAAYYY too early for that?
I guess you could always put a bottle of scotch and two glasses on the table between them and see what happens....just kidding (maybe)...
Quote:
What better way to feel better about yourself than to be around people you feel superior to?
Yup...you got this Raine...
I will send some patience shovels on the next truck heading down there for ya...MLC, in-laws on extended visit...methinks you might need some extras in the shed...
You are awesome, and I do believe H knows this as well, just taking some time to come to terms with himself... T^2
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
BTW, if you opt for the scotch technique, be sure it's a single malt...those blended ones can be crazy-making...and I suggest a full face shield instead of goggles and a Kevlar reinforced labcoat...just to err on the side of caution...
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
I'm proud of you and your sensitivity toward H. It is pretty amazing that H is lucid enough to describe part of the crisis is like having a fog. It really spoke to me because I 
When my H is doing something hurtful or off the wall, it helps me to be able to read over your writings. It gives me hope that someday he'll wake up from all of this. I don't think he'll remember a lot of it, as even now he does not believe the boys and me when we tell him things he's said or done. But if he loves me again when he's "cooked" I think I'll be able to bury all of those bad things in my heart, and not have to harp on them. 
You've had enough of it as it is.