I think I'm still at a place where I dislike who she is and what has happened but I'm slowly getting there.
I'm not sure that'll ever go away, I honestly think I'll dislike what has happened to me for the rest of my life. We don't ever have to like what has happened to us, just figure out how we can accept it.
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The manipulating is game playing and I need to be life living.
First of all, what I'm about to say is strictly MHO based on what I've read/studied, observed, conversed with other many women, and experienced over my entire life. Everyone won't agree, but you asked me so here goes.
You guys have to remember something....sex for men and sex for women are not the same. Well, the "goal" should be the same for a couple, but the motives behind the act is not always the same. Like young men who want to see how many girls he can "conquer" and girls thinking she's proving her love by "letting" the boy.....old stuff like that. We could talk hours about the different motives women have in initiating sex. But the one thing all women seem to know how to do quite well....is to make the man believe he's the one making the moves....when actually, she's the one in control. Sometimes, that can be good when a couple are in a good R and it's like both are having fun with the whole dance....but in the stitch like you guys have...it is certainly not the case. And that's one reason you men get suckered into the web of control. You always see sex as a good thing! LBH's think "yea, we are making progress b/c we had sex! She must want to work on the R!" Then when the next day she is acting all cold and withdrawn again, he's all confused and doesn't understand what's going on.
I am talking about a stitch where you have had the BD and clearly have a WAW. When there has not been "real" effort put into some work toward the R.....and suddenly you have a night of passion.....it's wouldn't be good b/c it is deception wrapped in a pretty package. Don't forget that guys, it's deception! She has not changed her mind or feelings about the stitch!
Realistically, both genders have "used" sex for different purposes since the beginning of time. Before women's lib, females would lure men into having sex with them....to advance in their job, or whatever. The oldest trick in the book to hook a young man into marriage (if she couldn't get him willingly)would be to get pregnant. It used to be much worse before women's lib, but it hasn't stop completely.
Women have not forsaken their feminine wiles b/c it seems to be something they are born knowing how to do. If you don't believe me, just watch a little girl with her daddy. It's amazing to see her operate. And the mother is watching and laughing to herself b/c "she" knows what's going on....but most young daddy's are just as mystified by that little 3 yr old girl as he is by a grown woman. Of course, there is not sexual intent there with that child....(that's getting too deep and won't go there), but I just mean you see that natural feminine mystique. She can wrap him around her little finger. Many little girls learn how they can get their way by leaning how to coax daddy. As she grows up, and starts liking boys, her natural ways extend to flirting, and later to more mature things. But, you get the picture I'm painting about females?
So......when you have a WAW, you have a woman who is in REBELLION! Therefore, you cannot trust her as you once did. You cannot trust her motives to be what you "hope" they are. It's not that she will never get the right motives, but it won't come like you think......through one act of sex. It's just not that simple for her.
Now, the WAW is being cold, withdrawn, wants out of the M, etc. So the LBH is usually caught off guard by his WAW's wooing ways to pull him into her spell (forgive my dramatic description). Her first attempt may not take much to get him seduced and right where she wants him. But, if he should be stronger than she thought....she will lay it on a little more heavily. But if he caves and has sex with her....then the next day she is right back to her previous coldness. B/c she was temperature checking to see if she had power over him (controlling him) and once she could....she's no longer interested.
And that, gentlemen, is why you have to make the WAW work her a$$ off to get you back. And I don't mean by having sex. She has to prove her commitment at working to save the M. She has to do whatever it takes to work with you to save the M. That takes time, patient, and struggling. It's hard! Sex isn't hard. (no pun intended)
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I am curious to what would happen in that situation if the WAS comes onto the LBS and initiates sex. After if sex takes place the LBS carries on as they were and doesn't get sucked in by it all or at least puts a front on, how would the WAS respond/handle that?
You don't get it. He does get sucked in! I have never seen one, yet, that didn't think it was a sign that the WAW wanted to make up, get closer to working things out, etc. Then he's crushed when he discovers she hasn't changed anything.
I can't tell you from the man's point of view. All I can do is tell you about women. But I can tell you that I have not known of a case where the LBH could be all nonchalant about it.....b/c it's not like it was when he was single and out there seeing how many women he could have sex with, this is he WIFE who he is very emotionally involved in a M breaking up and he's desperately seeking a sign of hope from her. When she's flirty, affectionate, etc., he sees it as hope. And men want to have sex to make up or work the problems out....but women really want to work the problems out before making love. (Notice how I used the words sex & making love.) Sex is not always "love" in the eyes of a woman. Maybe it is for men, or some men....but not women. But then that's one of the many ways we're different!
Don't be disillusioned by thinking you could handle it. It will suck you in to the emotional heart break. Look where you've been all this time, and it did not bring you and her together....b/c sex is not the work that needs to be done by her. Maybe you need to think of the real "effort" as foreplay.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
It's good to get a sense of how and why a woman will do what she does.
Like I said, I can't see her trying that anytime soon but if it happens I will turn her down.
I'm totally guessing here but I think because you used that red angry face in your post it is automatically put there to highlight it. It's gone now you've made another post.
M36 W31 S4 S2 T5 M4 BD Jan12 S July12 Recon Sep12-Nov12 ILBINILWY Jan13 OM x 2 in 2013 W wants R July 13 I start D. Jan 14. Meet GF Nov 13 Have I changed enough? Jul 14
I really wasn't mad. And, I hope I didn't hurt anyone's feelings.....b/c I do tend to speak rather bluntly at times. I don't mean to sound sound angry. Just passionate about what I'm saying.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I prefer that you speak bluntly. Last thing I need is hints right now!
M36 W31 S4 S2 T5 M4 BD Jan12 S July12 Recon Sep12-Nov12 ILBINILWY Jan13 OM x 2 in 2013 W wants R July 13 I start D. Jan 14. Meet GF Nov 13 Have I changed enough? Jul 14
It's good to get a sense of how and why a woman will do what she does.
Like I said, I can't see her trying that anytime soon but if it happens I will turn her down.
I'm totally guessing here but I think because you used that red angry face in your post it is automatically put there to highlight it. It's gone now you've made another post.
I get why you're asking this question, and I'm the last person to lecture anyone about ML with WAW, but I recommend that you don't poke the hornets nest in this case...or your wife.
The easiest way to stick to this is to avoid situations where it could happen, as has already been suggested to you. Once the hormones and chemicals get flowing in your brain (and your other brain), it's very difficult to walk away and very easy to justify going through with it.
Keep your long term goals in mind. All the best,
-PM
M:12y - BD:12/11 - D:6/13 - 4Ds
"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -MLK Jr.
I have always had a problem saying no to anything my W asks for until recently. That's maybe why I thought I had the power to be able to say no to this too.
I will be staying well away.
M36 W31 S4 S2 T5 M4 BD Jan12 S July12 Recon Sep12-Nov12 ILBINILWY Jan13 OM x 2 in 2013 W wants R July 13 I start D. Jan 14. Meet GF Nov 13 Have I changed enough? Jul 14
Reading others threads on here wondering what their WAS is doing or not doing has led me to doing the same. I can snap myself out of it for the most part.
One that does stay with me a little longer is no contact. Other than the first month or so after the BD one of us has always been in communication every day about one thing or another. Now we are both NC and I'm starting to notice it. I'm not checking my phone or waiting for contact or anything like that, I'm just aware of it.
I don't have a clue is she is surging ahead with the "proper money channels" or not. I made sure my tax was sorted today as that might have a big effect is she does.
I feel like I'm in the least amount of limbo for a while now. House is still on the market and will keep it on until I get some sort of offer. I thinks it's better if a house has had an offer on it before it's taken off sale. Not going to sell house. Probably remortgage to make payments easier and that will give me ample time to decide what to do with anything and everything.
I'm going to remove/change most of the pictures on the stairs soon. I'm not going to erase W completely from the house mainly for kids sake but I can't have 20 odd pics of her there all the time.
Had a dream last night (I rarely remember dreams), all I can remember is I was introduced by W to an OM. Remembered not being bothered by it. It annoyed me when I woke up that I wasn't.
Still quite positive, I feel like I can switch from any mood to happy and content without a problem right now.
M36 W31 S4 S2 T5 M4 BD Jan12 S July12 Recon Sep12-Nov12 ILBINILWY Jan13 OM x 2 in 2013 W wants R July 13 I start D. Jan 14. Meet GF Nov 13 Have I changed enough? Jul 14
Just letting you know that I will be meeting with a solicitor on Monday to file a divorce petition. I will be saying that the marriage broke down through unreasonable behaviour on your part. Reasons being feeling emotionally and physically neglected. Rowing constantly because of issues with your family. You chose your family and parents over me which made me feel like and outsider. No support in bringing up the kids and having to move back to Blackpool. Your job is in Cumbria and you will not move here nor will I move back.
We need to decide how we are going to look after the kids at weekends. At the minute you were having them every weekend but going forward i don't think that is going to work. We can split the weekends, two/three weekends at yours and then one at mine? We divide the Bank Holidays between us. Obviously as we go through this process there is going to be much more detailed stuff regarding the kids so you need to start thinking about what you want.
With regards to money I am wanting to be civil but I need to think about how am I to support the kids. You need to come up with a figure that you think is reasonable to pay me each month....because what you pay me is no where near enough and you know that. What percentage you are giving to me when the house sells....personally the money that is made should be split before your debt is cleared!| And this is what I will be pushing for. I had a good job when I met you and worked and training while having both kids. I do not see why I should walk away with nothing for what I have put into this marriage over the last 5 years.
So have a think but the petition will be filed next week.
W"
M36 W31 S4 S2 T5 M4 BD Jan12 S July12 Recon Sep12-Nov12 ILBINILWY Jan13 OM x 2 in 2013 W wants R July 13 I start D. Jan 14. Meet GF Nov 13 Have I changed enough? Jul 14
Sometimes, that can be good when a couple are in a good R and it's like both are having fun with the whole dance....but in the stitch like you guys have...it is certainly not the case. And that's one reason you men get suckered into the web of control. You always see sex as a good thing! LBH's think "yea, we are making progress b/c we had sex! She must want to work on the R!" Then when the next day she is acting all cold and withdrawn again, he's all confused and doesn't understand what's going on.
