One month down, zero casualties

[Raine]

His parents know about us, that we separated for seven months. They want us to be together and think this is a good sign he is back. His mom knows he is in a S bed. I don't think H would ever ask to share my bed, but likely would if I asked.

He said that stuff to ow4. He doesn't talk to me about anything like that and only says things to them if they ask when he is moving out. I think he mixes truth and lies. He's not going to tell them that he wants to stay here. Financial seems like a very good reason why. But also I do think he feels stifled again, like how he was before we separated. He has a secret life again. Truth is he kept it secret during S too. I'm guessing because he figures if I know, it's over. But here i guess he feels that he can't go out and be with ow and has to be sneaky and he is restricted here. I think that is a self inflicted restriction that he may like is in place. I don't think he always wants to be with them in a physical presence and he can use being here and me as an excuse. I think he is conflicted. He wants those other relationships and they are all still too fantasy. He may think they're real, but they're all secret and limited. He's not willing to give this side up yet either. Almost like he is wanting me to make the decision for him. And so he'll stay stagnant as far as that goes. His movements toward me probably are subconscious.

I don't think my H's ow get mad at him like yours does. My H doesn't promise them anything and has lots of excuses, from me to the kids to being too messed up.

[TSquared2]

He's not willing to give this side up yet either. Almost like he is wanting me to make the decision for him. And so he'll stay stagnant as far as that goes. His movements toward me probably are subconscious.

I can see this with W as well a while back...I think now the movements are her making an effort, but still gun-shy and not wanting to move too fast, still not sure. And I think there may be what I posted on TVS's thread going on as well.

Just time....time to see where they are going to go, what they are going to be when they grow up, eh?

Hang in there, and I wish you most patience and luck during the visit...it may stir things up with H (maybe good, maybe bad)...

[RosaLinda]

I'm glad that your H's parents are happy that he's back home. And that you're being so supportive of him in dealing with his dad's visit. You are a gem and I think he is starting to appreciate that. Even if he DOES have all these fantasy OW. And feels compelled to lie to them about why he's still at home. 

"He's not willing to give this side up yet either. Almost like he is wanting me to make the decision for him. And so he'll stay stagnant as far as that goes."

I felt like that with my H this spring too, Raine and T^2, during his DB#2 speech. Almost as if he was trying to be as offensive as he could to force my hand so that I would kick him out, and make the decision for him. 

Unfortunately for him, I just told him that if he and RT were so much in love with each other, she should come here to live with him as an illegal alien. They could move to Brighton Beach and she could get a job to support him with the rest of the people who overstayed their visas in the Russian section. He temporarily changed his tune to saying that she really only wants to marry anyone to get a green card, and would divorce him once she had one, and alternately, to he is so depressed and feels so dead inside that he does not love anyone, including me and RT. it was a very strange conversation, pure MLC rubbish, I see now. Except maybe for the depressed part. 

I guess it will be nice for your inlaws to see the new baby. How do you get along with them Raine?

[Raine]

Hey Linda! My H told me he had been trying to make me mad at him before and was really upset end of may when I did get upset with him. He wanted to know why now and not before when he had been trying to get me this mad. And I wasn't even mad. I was relaxed and even toned but I was done with the situation.

I get along really well with them. They adore me. They are very upset with H to the point they wouldn't talk to him. His dad is softening though and beginning to see the depression. Before he felt like H didn't have anything to be depressed about and was being a selfish blank. They don't know how I have has the patience and have stood by H. His mom said she would have left him.

T I'm kind of hoping something happens during this visit. H needs to reconcile all the bitterness he has toward his dad.

...

H is starting to cycle down again. He seems more aware than ever before. I've been having some very interesting discussions with him.

Yesterday H and I started talking about one of our friends who seems to me to be in deep mlc. He is doing everything: Drinking drugs women money, etc. H said that this guy is trying to drowned his problems. So I said yes he is, and I can see how he got there and started talking about this friend's neglected childhood and emotionally absent mother. And then I said, "he just never developed any coping skills." H goes, "that's my problem too. I don't have any coping skills. The way I deal with it is to reboot. I just check out for a week. That's what was good about having my apartment. I could just check out. I could talk to the boys for 5 mins a night and then turn off the world. I can't do that here." He likened it to a computer rebooting. I said the problem with that is it always comes back. He agreed. I said, "if you could just get to the point where you were willing to get help and develop those skills, otherwise you're going to have this the rest of your life." He said, "I'm almost okay with that." And we laughed and changed subject.

Another convo: I asked him when he started feeling what he described as a "surreal displacement" when he talked to me about it in summer of 2011. Today I asked him about that and when it had started. This is that Convo:

him: it was creeping up on me was the thing. I had had a few times where I felt it for MANY years before, just this feeling of displacement

me: Would it be like being in a fog, this displacement, it slowly comes on and slowly leaves and you can't really remember being in it or what was going on? Many years before? Like before we were married or all during our marriage?

him: after marriage, and maybe not right away, maybe like 2003 onwards... maybe before that, but not so constant as it was from like late 2010 onwards. and yeah the fog is a great analogy, because I would be constrained but not physically constrained, so almost claustrophobia

[TSquared2]

Hi Raine,

The fact that H is starting to open up about things, his experiences, thoughts and such I think is a good sign, W did/does this in waves...
talktalktalk...silence...talktalktalk...silence...

Almost like she has to get some out, then fall back, process, regroup, then get more out.

How he describes the "fog" lines up with what other mlc survivors have documented...W hasn't tried to describe it yet, just the depression feelings.

Keep listening, asking questions like you are, and I think you have a really good sense of when to back off, so trust your instincts.

I hope H resolves some things with his Dad as well, anything you can do to facilitate that? W's dad died before they resolved everything, and mine is getting up there, so I have been trying to resolve things with him, well, at least DB'ing him to keep sanity flowing with everyone...

You're awesome, keep going!!

T^2

[RosaLinda]

 "I get along really well with them. They adore me. They are very upset with H to the point they wouldn't talk to him. His dad is softening though and beginning to see the depression. Before he felt like H didn't have anything to be depressed about and was being a selfish blank. They don't know how I have has the patience and have stood by H. His mom said she would have left him."

That's great that they are so supportive of you Raine. And it's good that your FIL is finally understanding that someone doesn't need to have "anything to be depressed about" to be depressed, and that depression doesn't make him a "selfish blank" -- or maybe it does. 

I don't know how you will feel about this, but would you consider explaining something about MLC to your inlaws since they already know that you two separated for 7 months? My MIL was furious that my H left me to go away with RT a few months ago, and was equally furious that he plans to go see her in Moscow. She kept telling me to kick him out. So I told her a bit about MLC and now she is a big supporter of my DBing efforts. 

You handled those conversations where your H opened up to you SO WELL! Very T^2 like of you! Made him feel comfortable sharing, and did not push. Poor guy, to have had these periods of fog for 10 years! I wonder if that's commom. Great job Raine!

How has your W described her feelings of depression T? My H describes it as feeling empty and dead inside, with no interest in anything. 

[Raine]

It's interesting with his father, because his father suffers from chronic depression and is fully enabled by it. H's mom has told me that his father has his sister who will always force him to get out of the house and not dwell in his depression. I told MIL, see that's the problem and I won't do that for H. He has to learn to get himself out of the house. He has to learn to cope with it and not rely on others.

I've talked to MIL quite a lot, but no, I wouldn't go into details of MLC or DB with them. I've used terms like self destruction, depression, stunted emotionally. I tell her things are improving slowly in the scope of things, but there is still a ways to go. They have in their mind that things will shake him up and knock him out of it, like me having the baby, or Christmas, or him being at home, or them coming to visit. I've told MIL that H has issues with his dad and I don't fully know what they are, but similar to H having issues with me. She knows all the kids have issues with his dad's selfishness and other effects of the depression. I told her that some of the issues may be real and some may only be his perception. I have asked them to be there for him, to reach out to him, to not be upset with him for what he is doing.

What I have learned is as much as I have tried to explain things to people, like my close friend or my mom, they don't fully get it, even using and describing the term MLC. They think I get it and I'm doing really well, but it's hard for them to imagine, which I understand. People here get it. I think it's better to leave people in our lives out of it as much as possible.

I'm very interested in what these periods of disconnect were about in 2003+. Because they did not impact him like this.

[TSquared2]

I'm very interested in what these periods of disconnect were about in 2003+. Because they did not impact him like this.

I am curious now if W had some episodes like that ^^^, but we just attributed it to her SAD or something. Keep us informed if you find out more...

[uRworthy]

Raine, you did awesome with your conversations with your h. And I agree, it is hard for others to understand about MLC.

I suffered from depression most of my life in varying degrees.

Thankfully, I have gotten the help I needed to be able to no longer suffer from it.

I can tell you that depression feels like you are swimming in mud.
No matter how hard you try, you still cant get to where you need to be. You are in a fog. Everything seems to be so difficult to manage.

You feel as if no matter what you do, you cannot feel better. So, each day, you give a little thought to trying and then, when it feels hopeless, you stop.

At some point during my depression, I remember thinking to myself, what is wrong with me? I knew something wasnt right, but, I didnt know what it was. But I also remember feeling like I was right about how things looked and why doesnt everyone see it that way.

I hope that helps in some way.

Keep doing what you are doing, R. You are amazing.

[reachingHigher]

You're doing great, Raine!

I like that you have a clear "big" picture and are able to maintain your emotional control in these convos!

Keep going!