Questions without answers...will the hurt stop?

[albamarie]

Letting him continue to figure things out including his own acknowledgement about OW is a gift to both of you. As so many have told us here on the boards, it isn't about us. You received confirmation of that.

why is this the easiest thing to do, do nothing, but yet it is my biggest struggle, just stay out of it! It was a lesson very hard learned, I am amazed at how hard it was/is to just do nothing! I am also amazed at how doing nothing works soo well!

Your H seems to be feeling a lot of shame. Hopefully he will move beyond it. Even if he's not asking, he needs forgiveness. He also needs time and space to come to terms with himself and what he's done.

he does seem to need something from me, it's may be forgiveness, but my own anger makes me feel like he just needs me to forget, and act as if! I tend to think the worst of him until he actually says it out of his mouth! I pray your right and forgiveness, regardless of the outcome of our R, is or will be important to him one day.

Thanks for posting, I appreciate any insight , that's why I ask

We spent some time together enjoying a movie and he asked to share my coffee w him, a little close for him, but I rolled w what I was comfortable w. After a short gig he returned home and said he feels his depression creeping in...I offered for him to learn how to recognize and try some things to take control of himself, he said why should he!

Ok, that's all I need to kick in my detachment and walk away!

This day is for me...

[albamarie]

While talking to my S22 tonight he tells me how H said he wants to leave but I won't let him! He asked S what do guys do when they don't have work, S said they enjoy other things I life, and their families. H said not me, I have to work till I die.

I have told this man countless of times to leave. But, as he said yesterday his depression is creeping up. He said he can only beat it by doing the rebellious things he does. That's why he needs to be cut from us.

He can't handle life, and it always come down to he would be better if he left home. But, then he doesn't want to leave home. In the next sentence he told S how he likes to make sure he's providing for us.

He came home joking and depressed a minute later! In and out of these two personalities. I hate to say it, for my own safety, but I don't think he wants to leave, or loose us, I think he will never know how to do either or and be stuck in this limbo.

I'm so worried for myself, I have to move forward and away from this but I too am stuck, for now!

[nero]

hi dawn-

wow - talk about insane highs and lows. you are doing good i think & takin care of you- you are not suicidal or depressed yourself. you recognize the signs of the lows - you do not get ecstatic over any "highs".....

YOU ARE EXPECTING WAAAAY TO MUCH OF SELF - TO "be on top" of this all.....

you are merely confused and in a quandry every day about dealing with a giant giant giant contradictory , messed up guy. (who presents a different FACE every other minute, day, etc.)

what you are feeling - that it's "bad for you" - is JUST an honest perception of exactly what is going on in your life -
you're being realistic & facing it straight on- who could ask for better????
you're just a (nice little gal) who is in a giant sucking mudhole - tryng to keep from going under. just natural- wouldn't you think???

how would you feel anything but confused and "at risk". just be sure to cover up your soft underbelly when you're going "there" to h-land. you know by now what you're going to get from him (the bad stuff - possibly) (you generally expect it) and then when something nice or good or unexpectedly positive comes along you can be amazed and wonder at it, but you don't begin to build a new love nest. YOU SOUND GROUNDED IN REALITY to me this a.m. - .

you sound like you're giving him options to communicate- be close - heal - - - BUT - he will not be able to "get to" your soft underside. know what i mean- you ARE THO keeping yourself "protected" and your little hard shell around heart for time being- that's about all you can do - no???

did that make sense??? i think yu're doing exactly what you should be- you sound good - your h would tell anyone else his skewed perception- you not letting him leave. WE ALLLL KNOW THE TRUTH OF THAT - THEY are doing what their own gut is telling them to do- not a darn thing more. it's alllll about them and their "disease" rite now.

feel good about yourself this minute- you sound as in control (of a stinkng tornado out of the blue) as anyone could be in this kind of a wacked our- no reason or order - kind of a natural disaster.

xxoo hang on buddy-

i'm jealous your h can even articulate - as usual - i'd kill for a sentence tht begins with I from my h. this stone-wall stuff is getting very very old.

thsi girl has lost or is losing her ability to anticipate- assume- read the bones & care even to do so.....

signing off - hope your day is okay .. YOU ARE STUCK, we allllll are (why else would we be here????? can't get in- can't get out-

just keep breathing and know you're in it with us all- same boat- a hand out will appear some day- we'll grab it when it comes i figure

[RosaLinda]

oh Dawn, your poor H is SO confused. This MLC is such a killer, such an insidious worm eating away at previously sane people's brains until they are so horribly confused it is SAD.

I bet when your H told your S22 that he wants to leave but you won't let him, he meant that HE doesn't want to leave you! But what a nasty thing to say. What did your son think about this statement? I've told my H he is free to leave, and in fact, if he is "in love" with his Tramp, he SHOULD leave and go live with her, but he told me he's confused and doesn't know what to do. I alternate between thinking MLC is a real illness and that these men are just playing a game and using this as an excuse. Except how stupid is that for me to say, they don't realize they're in MLC do they?

This says it all Dawn: "We spent some time together enjoying a movie and he asked to share my coffee w him, a little close for him, but I rolled w what I was comfortable w. After a short gig he returned home and said he feels his depression creeping in...I offered for him to learn how to recognize and try some things to take control of himself, he said why should he!

Ok, that's all I need to kick in my detachment and walk away!" Step away from the cliff Dawn, you're doing a great job detaching! He'll come back to you mentally someday, don't worry!

[albamarie]

I bet when your H told your S22 that he wants to leave but you won't let him, he meant that HE doesn't want to leave you!

Linda, it's SO funny that you say it this way, I never thought of it like this! The funny thing is H has said this to me and I only believe it or want to understand it when you say it!

I have told him countless of times he's free to leave, he doesn't want me to set him free, he said he's trying to leave himself, not me. Even if he physically left he wouldn't be gone, but, I am the obstacle in his journey, or, am I what saves him from destruction?

Whatever, it's his journey and I am doing well at detaching, thanks for noticing. I'm steadily looking for a new career as mine is gone....even if I work it won't help him because he needs to be the provider, but it will help me tremendously and that's my journey.

My kids understand that he is floundering and hate that he won't reach out. My BIL called asking H to church, or IC, or private spiritual C, H refused all, so BIL said to me privately that this is no environment for a new baby (8/24).

It's not an environment for any of us! Where putting in the overtime prayers that this will be a game changer, either way!

Thanks so much for posting...I am far from his cliff...there were days I wanted to rope myself to him so he wouldn't fall. Today I don't even watch

[albamarie]

hi dawn-

wow - talk about insane highs and lows. you are doing good i think & takin care of you- you are not suicidal or depressed yourself. you recognize the signs of the lows - you do not get ecstatic over any "highs".....

I don't get ecstatic over the "highs", quite opposite I am suspicious of them and untrusting of the outcome.

SO, if that's how I feel, than what is left of the R for me to hold on to, the past, the could have been?

Is this true detachment and where I should be emotionally. Is it normal that I am content w letting go. I asked God for the strength to let him go, move ahead in front of this R, leaving him to himself.

I envy those of you can can say they still L their H's, I am acting lovingly out of respect for the M, thought this M has little respect.

His depression makes him quite a sick man and me the one lives with the fallout. I do feel for him, have empathy, but I can't get past the fact that he won't take some effort to work on himself.

This is being discussed on Linda's thread, and I am going to stay away from that conversation, but to me and my sitch...5 yrs is a long time, and without any effort on H's part for change, it looks like it is what it is, and I am where I am w this.

Which way do I go from here? I have small peeks of wanting to "let him" be tender and nice to me, even staying open to a man who one day want's to put in an effort for change, but I don't have expectations, so again, why not just move forward.

If he ever follows through on becoming a healthy man he may be surprised to see that I'm not there and if he chooses, than maybe he can purse me, I guess.

Now, how to get started w my new phase!

[nero]

hey hi-

man- i'm livin on this computer today- don't know why. was upbeat in a.m.- then got a bit dreary - spent several hours looking (not finding) my poor mother's teeth- cripes- how disheartening is that- losing your teeth somewhere around the house and i swear dawn- they are in none of the usual and likely places.

i'm mighty glad tonite to have teeth that are stuck in my head.

then dinner next door w/ gal from pa who comes for a week at a time with mother in wheelchair (stroke). it was okay- it sure makes me remember we only have today & now- make it good.


I don't blame you for no involve in linda's convo going on- it's a bit wierdish i think- feels a bit hostile/- poor ole linda- things get rather "heated" up lately and it's hard enough to keep things unjumbled in your head. me- i need peaceful and nice exchanges and some harmony here.. i love the kind support & words. idk about alot of the adament pleas for action - or comments on her actions - or lack thereof.

YOUR NEW PHASE - IDK how to begin. i think just saying it to y9ourself and out loud here is a first step. you know- the journey of 1000 miles begins with the frst step.

what would you really like to happen (that could or might? really). it seems to me that your h will not ever leave willingly. i can't figure how it would benefit you to move out and have to find an apartment with all the attendant expense - and would he pay for it??? or would you have to??? i know you want to chill without him around a bit- need the reprieve - but how could or would that work?

would it be an "act of war" and push him, well, where would it push hinm???

i can't figure it out - gotta think- back tomorrow-

phone ringing- hope not mom-

xxoo







anyway-

[RosaLinda]

You've been going through this a long time Dawn. Five years is a long time -- the whole darn process is supposed to be over in 3 to 5 years. I can see why you're worn out and discouraged. It must be very difficult to keep love alive in your heart for that long. 

You talk about him being depressed and  seem disgusted that he is not helping himself. It's such a dilemma. They refuse to see a therapist, won't discuss antidepressants with their doctor, and, short of having the police drag them to the psych ER, you can't make them seek help. 

Has your H been depressed long? The reason I ask is because I was thinking that maybe his MLC is winding down and he is in that depression stage. I copied the definition off this forum onto the notes on my phone, and will paste the explanation here for depression and withdrawal. It says the depression can last up to six months. Maybe it will help you a little, dear Dawn. Maybe it's not what is happening at all, I dunno, it's just a thought!!

4th Stage of a Mid Life Crisis 
DEPRESSION

Now, we have traveled through the first three stages, and during those stages, the issues that are inside the Mid Lifer have STILL not been looked at. 

This is the stage where the Mid Lifer is faced with the issues he/she are beginning to face, and quite frankly, they feel like failures. 

Nothing has helped the first three stages-everything they have tried has NOT turned to gold, on the contrary everything has turned to stone, for lack of a better word to describe their running-and now comes the time to begin to face their damage, and this is done inside-because that is what Depression is-anger turned inward. 

Their hormones are out of whack, due to physical changes, and that makes them feel worse. Their self-esteem is shot all to pieces, and they feel like failures. They wonder if they will ever be worth anything to anyone. Some are in so much pain, they commit suicide, some get smart and get anti-depressants to help them begin to clear their thinking processes, some suffer in silence, thinking nobody understands them or will understand what they are going through-and so it goes on. 

They will be on the verge of tears, most of the time, pacing the floor, losing sleep, afraid of the dark-or maybe what's in it; unable to escape negative thoughts, cutting themselves down in word and action. Extreme guilt may compound this stage, and there is so much pressure, they become forgetful, irritable, want to be left alone, somewhat argumentative, sometimes unresponsive-want to take long drives, sit looking out the window-their silences are long and painful, as they don't want to talk about it preferring instead to think and brood. 

You must understand they will come through this or they won't-no one can "make" them come out until they are ready-pestering them only makes them draw inside further, and they need the space to work within themselves, trying to understand some of what has happened; the parts they can face, anyway, besides resolving issues that are inside them, from childhood and/or otherwise. Understand, also, this journey must continue to made alone, no one can "fix" it or "do it for them." 

Pieces of the next stage are contained within, and Withdrawal begins to come to the fore as each individual issue is faced-it is a gradual slide from Depression to Withdrawal or both stages can occur together. 

The Depression stage can last from around two and a half months to possibly six months, depending upon the severity of the depression they are suffering. 

5th Stage of a Mid Life Crisis 
WITHDRAWAL

Now, the Mid Lifer has been beginning to face his/her issues while in Depression, and what they've seen has NOT been pretty. They've done so MUCH damage, and don't really know how to "fix" it, and that has made them even MORE depressed. 

So, for a time, they conclude that life is not worth much, and so they "drop out" of life or WITHDRAW, hence the stage of Withdrawal. 

It is also during this time, they will navigate obstacles and question themselves, somewhat, working their way toward what is called the "final fears" Not much is known about what the final fears contain-I think it is beginning to accept the death of everything they have ever known, including the death of their "old" lives; AND beginning to accept their own mortality without being afraid of it-Depression sets them up for this journey across an open field toward an archway to face these fears. During this time, they will NOT communicate with ANYONE, not even their spouse, as they are drawn so far within, no one can reach them. They MUST be allowed to continue, with NO interruptions, just like before-they will NOT come out until they are READY to come out. 

Just like in Depression, they want to left alone, still processing their issues and the damage they have done to their spouse and their lives, and they make several decisions during this time concerning their lives, job, and marriage. But those WON'T be known UNTIL they break Withdrawal and talk to their spouse the first time 

They are still secretive, somewhat asserting their privacy, much like a teen-ager, but during this time, they must be gently but firmly led along, and only when the time is right-a wrong word at the wrong time will cause them to "stick" within the tunnel. 

You will see some Depression and Anger within them, they are mostly angry at themselves, but will take it out on you, and there are times you will have to be quiet and just leave them alone; letting them work things out, and they usually will, as the answers, such as they are STILL come from within them, not outside sources. 

As they begin to come forward, they will begin the journey out of the tunnel-entering the first stage of Acceptance. 

Withdrawal can last from three months to one year.

[nero]

holy crow-

what depressing stuff - that article about stages. i'm glad i don't know and don't read what to expect. i'd end it all in dread. cannot fathom it - soooooo dark. (oh yeah- no wonder they call it depression) i am so sorry for all your time dealing with it- too hard...

dawn - idk how you deal with h's continual downer-ness - but i can't see how you'd get him to leave & keep you still financially okay-. I also wonder about switched loyalties once you are out of sight- would he just need more money to keep himself "single" and you end up screwed. kind of thing??? (that just seems to be what happens in life - across the board) i mean, he would provide for himself first, wouldn't he? all the "promisses" aside.

boy- do i sound cynical or what??? my h says live here forever if i want - he'd never make me leave. that isn't same as giving me his half of the house or saying he'll pay the bills either, is it...?? - it's a nice "thought" and thing to say- but nothing to take to the bank. it could be just words and crappola too. sorry- but can't REALLY "trust" these guys- not like we always believed we could - back then... rite??

all i can think is if you worked and got right away from the house for awhile each day- so that you spent less time with him and there- but things connnnntinue mostly as they are. it would be some kind of reprieve for you, but still keep your rights & foothold in your land. the gal stuff i guess- but MORE BIGGER

idk really how it would go- if that would be a jolt to his world enough to effect some kind of change in him and his attitude. (get help maybe)

if you were not just lovely little wifey-pooh sitting there at home for him all the time???

i hate to think of you leaving your home. my h's ancient aunt says "i'm his rock" whatever that means and more importantly " DON'T LEAVE YOUR HOME... no matter what". she's this ancient little italian lady- she watched her big family & the men in it & formulated her opinions....

so i'm thinking my gut said same thing to me- NO WAY - it may be uncomfortable and really really bad being here rite now- but WHY SHOULD I BE GUY TO BE KICKED OUT OF MY LIFE. for his bs affair & mlc???

so i'm applying it to you too- i'd be lying if i said otherwise. BUT- I KNOW my sitch & h are different from yours and you've had it up to your eyeballs with it all.

if you feel like you are going to go nuts- then run right away. i just can't picture how that would work

you've been thru SOOOOOO MUCH FOR SOOOOLONG - (don't hate me for thinkin/sayin this ) maybe you've been thru the "worst parts" and now are impatient for an end to it- you know, darkest before the dawn kind of thing? i hate to even think it- but who the heck knows???

i'm thinking you've made it this far- one day at a time- hanging on one more day, one more day, etc.

maybe i'm the world's biggest weiner- you've got your own opinion of that & me i'm sure- so consider the source when i say- hang on one more day - you can do it... shut off brain- put one foot in front of other- you were sounding detached & keeping it in "it's place" -

xxoo i got nothin huh?

[RosaLinda]

"you've been thru SOOOOOO MUCH FOR SOOOOLONG - (don't hate me for thinkin/sayin this ) maybe you've been thru the "worst parts" and now are impatient for an end to it- you know, darkest before the dawn kind of thing? i hate to even think it- but who the heck knows???"

I'm hoping this for Dawn too, Nero. Hoping hoping praying and hoping. Dawn have you ever read reachingHigher's threads? She and her H were on the edge of divorce. He turned it around and came home, but still put her thru hell for a couple of months dipping back into his replay activities. He's doing them less and less. It's a long slow process.