Stuck between a rock and a hard place!

[dorightman]

What's the worst possible outcome of this?

a divorce, meaning, selling the house, co-parenting the kids, mediation, and ultimately separate lives. My w tells me over and over that we could be friends, co-parent the kids, and everything would be fine. She says kids will not be affected unless I decide to abandon them, which she knows won't happen.

I know being desperate won't make any difference at all. I just want to save my marriage and I don't want my kids to have to grow up in this way, even if Obama is the president! (meaning he came from a divorced family and is fine!) One of my w's arguments for D!

[adinva]

That does not sound like the worst possible outcome at all, sorry. How about bitter, fighting lives, children with emotional problems, suicide attempts? How about can't sell the house, foreclosure, bankruptcy? If you look for things to be positive you will find them, and if you define utter devastation as divorce, coparenting, and moving on, then that is what it will be for you. You choose.

[labug]

Those are all things we wish wouldn't happen, but again, you can't control your W. If she wants a D, she will get a D. Pushing her not to probably pushes her more toward doing it.

Being so focused on your W that you curl up in a ball if you D won't be helpful to your kids.

And you can actually look at this in a positive way. As Cadet says, you've been given the gift of time. If you think a D is a very real possibility, even more reason to work on you so you can mitigate the negatives inherent in a D.

Take a parenting class, join a D support group, find your spiritual center, get a hobby, meet new people.

Don't talk about the R with your W. She's told you what she wants. Believe her.

Do you read Spartan's thread? If not you might want to.

[adinva]

I think what is really hard is thinking that not fighting against divorce is like saying it's ok. I have had trouble with that too.

You can fight like crazy against it, have you ever seen any case where that saved a marriage? Fighting like crazy against divorce usually seems to solidify the plan and make it more combative. It's like pulling hard to escape a Chinese finger trap.

Accepting that it is your WAS's need and desire sounds like the worst thing you could possible do if you care about the marriage, but it's the only way that Chinese finger trap can get the space to release its tension. If she ever might change her mind that's the only place she could change it from.

So looking at an amicable divorce as the worst possible outcome, is not helping you.

Is that maybe a little clear?

[adinva]

Citing Obama is ridiculous, but she is grasping at straws to get you to see that she sees NO OTHER ALTERNATIVE that she can live with, and so the kids must be ok with it.

You know better. This is not going to be easy on the kids at all, and they're not going to grow up and be President just because Obama did. You must treat your kids like the individuals they are, and get them the help they need at the time they need it. Maybe they will be fine, maybe not, but you will do all you can, right?

Coparenting classes would be a great start if she's interested. If you didn't end up getting divorced what would be the harm in having had some education in coparenting? Or read some well regarded books on helping children in divorce situations. Taking actions like that won't push your W toward divorce if she was already headed in that direction but might give her an inkling that you're making the best of things and taking her seriously.

[labug]

To piggy back on what Ad said, continuing to focus on the your W as the bad actor in this drama, is already leading you down the path toward making the D worse for the kids than it need be. Laying all the blame on her, you could end up with the the "See I told you so" response, either spoken or thought, every time the kids have an issue.

That doesn't lead to finding creative solutions. And if you want to truly co-parent, both parents have to feel respected.

[dorightman]

That does not sound like the worst possible outcome at all, sorry. How about bitter, fighting lives, children with emotional problems, suicide attempts? How about can't sell the house, foreclosure, bankruptcy? If you look for things to be positive you will find them, and if you define utter devastation as divorce, coparenting, and moving on, then that is what it will be for you. You choose

Of course I would choose the positive. My w since the start of all this has been justifying the positive outcome and saying that if it were negative, that would be because of my actions only. Her stance is that if we do this D well, everyone and everything will be ok.

She has a college friend that comes from a D family. Her father moved down the block from the family home and they co-parented successfully. They had family dinners etc. Her friend told my w that the D had no negative effects on her and she now has a wonderful M and children of her own.

[dorightman]

Those are all things we wish wouldn't happen, but again, you can't control your W. If she wants a D, she will get a D. Pushing her not to probably pushes her more toward doing it.

Agreed, and my W says she will take the high road.

Being so focused on your W that you curl up in a ball if you D won't be helpful to your kids.

I won't do this, I just have some sad moments because I don't want a D.

And you can actually look at this in a positive way. As Cadet says, you've been given the gift of time. If you think a D is a very real possibility, even more reason to work on you so you can mitigate the negatives inherent in a D.

Take a parenting class, join a D support group, find your spiritual center, get a hobby, meet new people.

Good advice, thx Advina!

[lovethehub]

DoRight,

I just read this whole thread and what stands out in an overwhelming way is your refusal to listen and to use the advice given to you by Mr. Bond.

It seems as if you have never read DB, DR or any other threads on here to learn and grow. You keep saying that you want to work this out and you can't because of your W.

Stop blaming her. You are right, she doesn't want to work things out right now. However, if you read the books and other threads, you will understand that the entire point of DBing is to work on YOURSELF. Your wife has noticed some change in you but not enough to make her want to R. That doesn't mean she won't in the future if she realizes you have made these changes for yourself (not just to get her back) and that they are real.

You say you are getting better and learning to detach but you aren't detached at all. Every post is about how you want her back. I just read 6 weeks of posts and don't see any changes in you from beginning to end. You MUST LET HER GO and you need to listen to her. You are talking about discussing a safe word with her when she just told you she is moving out if you are staying. This shows her that you don't care about what she wants and that you aren't listening to her.

Start reading threads and learn how to truly detach. Start GALing and become the best you that you can be.

Then, maybe, one day, you will be able to R with your W.

[dorightman]

Accepting that it is your WAS's need and desire sounds like the worst thing you could possible do if you care about the marriage, but it's the only way that Chinese finger trap can get the space to release its tension. If she ever might change her mind that's the only place she could change it from.

I understand this Advina. Does this mean that I give her a D? OR Does it mean that I continue to use DB techniques ?