Stuck between a rock and a hard place!

[MrBond]

"Yes I had a plan, a plan to go in w an open mind."

I don't know how many times I've told you that that isn't a plan. It's why your W had a problem with you and STILL has a problem with you. Yet you refuse to change.

"The issue of me moving back never came up."

Yes it did. SHE had brought it up before.

"W was angry the day I came back,"

Of course she would be. And I bet you never discussed the plan I recommended to you about how she could feel safe by using the safe word. You never let her feel SAFE! I don't know how many times I need to say that before it sinks in for you.

"and then she was ok."

Just because she didn't bring anything up doesn't mean things were 'ok'.

"We both started talking, not sure who started first. It was a pretty calm talk, but it still hurt a lot."

You should have avoided this altogeher. AND the talk would not have happened if you allowed her to feel safe around you.

"It just feels the same no matter what I do or did for the past year.
Yes I made alot of mistakes in the beginning, but for the past 6 months I've acted much better, less emotional."

That's fine, but you haven't learned how to progess beyond that.

"She's not scared to talk anymore, but feels like it's a dead end because we both want different things. She wants D, I want to reconcile. This has been the problem from the start last August."

It always is the problem, BUT you could have changed all this.

"You cannot work on a relationship with someone who refuses to. I really feel like there's nothing else I can do."

Geez I don't know how many times you need to go through this. It's not sinking in with you. You're STILL doing what you want and not respecting her wishes or understanding her needs. THAT's why things haven't changed.

[MrBond]

By the way, you can turn this around IF you start listening.

[dorightman]

"The issue of me moving back never came up."

Yes it did. SHE had brought it up before.

Yes, I meant in T. I was attacked for 50 minutes in T and was on the defensive the whole time. T said he would only talk about D and why I wasn't giving it to W.

"W was angry the day I came back,"

Of course she would be. And I bet you never discussed the plan I recommended to you about how she could feel safe by using the safe word. You never let her feel SAFE! I don't know how many times I need to say that before it sinks in for you.

I never did, but she did say she noticed that I softened. I will have this discussion with her. To have a SAFE word we can use in arguments that ends it immediately right?


"We both started talking, not sure who started first. It was a pretty calm talk, but it still hurt a lot."

You should have avoided this altogeher. AND the talk would not have happened if you allowed her to feel safe around you.

I'm not sure I agree or maybe I misunderstand you here Bond. I think whether she feels safe or not, she still is sure she wants a D. What does feeling safe around me have to do with whether she wants a D or not. Her story is about how bad I treated her in the past and how she gave up on the marriage at some point because of how unhappy she was in the M. By then it was too late, and thats how she feels. It's the typical story of the man not realizing how bad things are until it's too late.

"It just feels the same no matter what I do or did for the past year.
Yes I made alot of mistakes in the beginning, but for the past 6 months I've acted much better, less emotional."

That's fine, but you haven't learned how to progess beyond that.

I have been doing my best to be the best father/husband I can be. She blocks any
love or act of love and she expects me to be a great father not for her, but for our kids. There is no possibility for any touch, hugs are cold, no kisses, just co-parenting. She accepts my cooking dinner for her and the kids, but thats it! She excludes me from any plans she makes w family or friends.
What can/should I do to progress beyond this?

"She's not scared to talk anymore, but feels like it's a dead end because we both want different things. She wants D, I want to reconcile. This has been the problem from the start last August."

It always is the problem, BUT you could have changed all this.

I'm sorry Bond, I feel like an idiot here! What am i missing? How could I have changed all this?

"You cannot work on a relationship with someone who refuses to. I really feel like there's nothing else I can do."

Geez I don't know how many times you need to go through this. It's not sinking in with you. You're STILL doing what you want and not respecting her wishes or understanding her needs. THAT's why things haven't changed.


Her wishes and needs are to sell the house, get D, and co-parent the kids. I understand her needs, but you're right, I haven't respected her wishes. Is there anyway to respect her wishes without selling the house and getting a D?

[dorightman]

Bond, I appreciate your input. In fact, you are the only person that responds to me at this point. I feel like I don't understand what to do anymore. Would it be too much to ask you for a simple plan of action?
I'am not doing any of the detrimental things I did in the past. I'am much more calm, my voice does raise in intensity when we argue, but nowhere near what I did before.
I do not call/text her, I just respond to her calls/texts. I rarely tell her I love her anymore. I do not try to hug/kiss her anymore. I do not ask her where she's been or where she's going. I do not snoop anymore. I don't follow her around the house. I try not to argue or talk about the R. I never talk about the R when the kids are around. I don't make plans w her. I GAL. HELP!

[MrBond]

"I never did, but she did say she noticed that I softened. I will have this discussion with her. To have a SAFE word we can use in arguments that ends it immediately right?"

That ship has sailed. You were supposed to have it BEFORE the C session, but you didn't listen. Timing is everything and you missed your window. Now if you bring it up, she will just get upset.

"I'm not sure I agree or maybe I misunderstand you here Bond. I think whether she feels safe or not, she still is sure she wants a D. "

You're wrong. And let's face it, you've never had her feel safe anyway. You didn't put any effort into it because it wasn't important to you. THAT is why she wants a D. You continue to guess that she wants a D whether you try something or not. More excuses. You haven't done anything to get you M on track. Sure I'm sure you're a better father, but that just repairs what you did to your kids, not your W.

"I understand her needs,"

No you don't or else you would have done something about it by now.

"but you're right, I haven't respected her wishes. Is there anyway to respect her wishes without selling the house and getting a D?"

I can't help someone who refuses to listen or act.

"Would it be too much to ask you for a simple plan of action?"

Yes it is too much to ask. I've explained what to do time and time again. But even something as simple as the safe word, you couldn't do. You're not going to act anyway, so your M will slip away.

"my voice does raise in intensity when we argue, but nowhere near what I did before."

Wow props to you. It doesn't matter the intensity. It matters WHAT you say and do. You don't get it.

"I do not call/text her, I just respond to her calls/texts. I rarely tell her I love her anymore. I do not try to hug/kiss her anymore. I do not ask her where she's been or where she's going. I do not snoop anymore. I don't follow her around the house. I try not to argue or talk about the R. I never talk about the R when the kids are around. I don't make plans w her. "

None of these things addresses her trust issues with you. And lets be real. She has no guarantee that you won't go back to being the way you were before. You've gone back on it time and time again.

[dorightman]

Bond, I will start listening. All I can say is I've been doing the best I can. Sometimes your advice is great, but other times you do the opposite of encouragement.

[labug]

I don't know if I've posted to you before and I didn't go back and read all your threads but wanted to respond to this, because it's the crux of about 99% of the threads on this board.

She wants D, I want to reconcile. This has been the problem from the start last August. You cannot work on a relationship with someone who refuses to. I really feel like there's nothing else I can do.

You're absolutely right, you can't work on a R with someone who refuses to. This line I really feel like there's nothing else I can do. is a cop-out because you can work on You. That's really your job in life, figure You out and become the best You possible.

Are you there yet?

Many times in the handful of posts I've read you say you've changed and she doesn't notice or care. You were together for 17 years and if you were uncaring, unfeeling, non understanding, overemotional, not matter what it was-6 months of change is not enough to make anyone believe that things will be different.

You can keep working on you and let W do whatever she wants to do. Her life is her business.

You sound desperate and I get that, you want what you want but we don't always get that in life. Desperation doesn't help.

What's the worst possible outcome of this? Really think about that. Will being desperate make any difference at all?

You are driving this train right now with your reactions. Stop focusing so much on W and focus on making yourself better. Getting control of your self.

I know this is tough, but you can do this.

[labug]

sorry...This line... I really feel like there's nothing else I can do is a cop-out.

[dorightman]

labug, thanks!

You are right to say "I really feel like there's nothing else I can do is a cop-out.

I have been re-reading all of my posts and all of the replies this morning. I go between feeling optimistic and fatalistic because of always trying to do the right thing and hitting a brick wall over and over again.
The tenacity needed to continue this DB work is incredible. I know I will be a better man no matter what the outcome, but that doesn't make the work any easier!

Thanks for the good advice about focusing on me and not my w.
The desperate feelings, feelings of sadness etc. come and go. I'am aware of that and I get through it now better than before. I'am learning how to deal with my emotions day by day.

Thank you labug!

[labug]

I go between feeling optimistic and fatalistic because of always trying to do the right thing and hitting a brick wall over and over again.

I would guess that's because you want to change your W more than you want to change you. The key to this is focusing on the only person you control...You.

I know, we ALL want our marriage to be saved. That's why we came here but we can't do that by making changes only to that end. You have to be in this 100% for YOU.

You didn't answer my question: What's the worst possible outcome of this? Really think about that. Will being desperate make any difference at all?