Me 8 months on, dark and trying to detach.

[hotwheelsaust]

stilllookinup, no it's not a deal breaker. But I have got to the stage where I need to know what and where I am in the scheme of things. All the characteristics of an affair have been displayed, not just to me, but to a lot of other family members. If it isn't an affair, then why the heck has she been acting the way she has been for the last 8 months, it certainly doesn't resemble what a WAS does.

[hotwheelsaust]

Just been thinking about the quick conversation we had. I stated that I was sick of hearing rumours, opinions and hearsay about her and the possible relationship. For my benefit with moving on I just needed to know the answer. She was very quick in asking who, when and why rather than stating how or why could you think that about me.
She also repeated the typical WAS mantra of I just didn't love you anymore.

[Fartiltre]

Hi HWA

Trust me when I say: I get you!
I am having the hardest time putting my focus on me and away from W. Her actions, saying or lack of same in some way dictates my mood and actions.
I get all the theoretics and I guess you do as well!

What you are doing right now is putting your focus back on W and letting that dictate what you do!

I didn't get an answer that was needed for me to move on.

But I have got to the stage where I need to know what and where I am in the scheme of things.

This is you letting her dictate your life and actions!
How would you have reacted if she had said “Yes, it is an affair!” You have already stated that it is not a dealbreaker! Would a “Yes” have made you give up on getting her back?


Work on you! GAL! Patience! The same old mantra all over again!
So easy to say – so hard to do!

Have a DB coach session this Tuesday that I am looking forward to. Won't do anything until that session.

Finally decided to ring the wife and ask her directly about the relationship, rather than via the family.

You are swinging around! This happened in 8 hours or so!

Why did you call her? As I read you her answer dosnt make a difference to you. You got the “No” and you don’t believe it. The “yes” wouldn’t make a difference! IMO you could have concluded this before calling.

Which answer would have made you move on?
Where do you believe you are in scheme of things?


About the financials: I get you on this part! Same here! You will have to prioritize things when income is downsized in a situation like yours or mine. I do hope you find a fair and good solution to it all.

Another question, should I move this thread to the infidelity pages now? Should I start a new thread there? Do I stay here?

I do not know the rules – so I say stay here! People here knows your sit already and although we are sad that you are here we like having you around!


All the best!

F

[hotwheelsaust]

Fartiltre, thanks again. I suppose again I am letting her dictate my life, but after 8 months of zero input from her and all the family telling me what they have concluded, it was simply my turn to learn something. Either answer wouldn't have made a difference, and maybe I should have thought more before calling. Seriously though, I have thought about doing this for the last 8 months. Someways I think it should have been done earlier, someways I wonder if it was a big, very big mistake. Alas it is done. You are right I really should have waited for the DB session before doing this. I say one thing and do a different thing.
Why did I call? Especially when it doesn't make any difference? I suppose it was simply a finally need to know. Not to mention my forced flatmate also mentioned this morning about how I am about the only person in this town that doesn't see the W was in a relationship. I am trying my best not to let his words affect me, but again, when so little is said and done and I get blamed for all from all, you just make snap decisions.
Thankfully the W didn't ring back or text. No more next times.
I really do need to shut up, forget what she does or doesn't do (not that I see much of that).
I really have to be more persistent with Sandi's rules. That is my hope. Along with patience and GAL.
The time limit factor (transfer) does make it so much harder.

[Fartiltre]

HWA

I get you so well and it is so easy for me to point these matters out to you and still almost impossible for me to live them myself!

Not to mention my forced flatmate also mentioned this morning about how I am about the only person in this town that doesn't see the W was in a relationship…..

Realize that she is in PA – she is! Everybody is telling you, you feel it and now you have to realize it and live with it! For now! Read about affairs in here – they end and when they do the LBS being the spouse you’ll never leave stands out!
And if she is or isn’t – it won’t make a difference right now I regards of YOU!

…. I am trying my best not to let his words affect me, but again, when so little is said and done and I get blamed for all from all, you just make snap decisions.

Why does it affect you? What are people blaming you? Is it fair? Why does this get to you?

….you just make snap decisions.

Do apply the 48 hour rule! It has saved my so many times!



Keep your hopes for R up! Vets has written so many times that R in less than a year is very rare. You can still do this but focus on you and your life! Let W live hers for now!

You are still doing well and I do not see any major problems in you calling her and asking what you did.

Get your own life sorted out. Financials, houses, the split and so on! Do family business, talk with the boys…GAL!!! What the heck: go on a date! That’s what you need to do! GAL!

Do GAL where you meet new people!

Cheer up!

F

[hotwheelsaust]

Why does it affect you? What are people blaming you? Is it fair? Why does this get to you?

Fartiltre, it seems that throughout life I have copped constant flak and criticism from people in all walks of life. Maybe it is me who should stand up for myself better. Maybe I shouldn't worry about what is told to me so much.
It affects me when I hear what I have done wrong or said, and I cannot remember those times. Examples I heard from the friend the other night: my boys are scared to do things with me as I constantly criticised them for doing it wrong. When? How? Why? I don't know or remember anything that resembled that, but this came from the boys speaking to the friend rather than the wife. The friend mentioned that the wife was really happy when I took off to be with my brother at the time of BD for three days, that I was a different person when I got back. Someone she liked, but then she said it lasted 24 hours only. Again, I sit here thinking I put in a big effort for weeks to be a better person, never saying anything wrong, helping out, talking. So what and why is it mentioned that I went back to being the same person. This is why it affects me so much.
I understand fully when I see what I have done wrong and take ownership of it. What is a struggle is it seems so many things I have down wrong, cannot be explained or remembered. It would be okay if I was a drug or drinker but I am not. So I feel scared, confused and a lot of other emotions, when I cannot change something that I don't know is happening.
Anyway, the focus is on:
48 hour rule
attempting to purchase house/s off the wife
better relationship with the boys
following sandi's 40 points better
no contact with wife at all
no speaking to family about W or more importantly don't be in a conversation where they talk about the W
GAL - I am doing the best I can with where I am and what I have
going on a date - don't know yet - sometimes I think about it, but then I also know I will be the one to get caught out.
what I really want, and I suppose most of us do, is to simply have that closeness to someone you care so much about. To touch them, to sit with them, to have someone to cuddle up to.
Again, thanks again, for getting me so well. It helps a lot.

[stilllookingup]

Fartiltre, it seems that throughout life I have copped constant flak and criticism from people in all walks of life. Maybe it is me who should stand up for myself better. Maybe I shouldn't worry about what is told to me so much. It affects me when I hear what I have done wrong or said, and I cannot remember those times. Examples I heard from the friend the other night: my boys are scared to do things with me as I constantly criticised them for doing it wrong. When? How? Why? I don't know or remember anything that resembled that, but this came from the boys speaking to the friend rather than the wife. The friend mentioned that the wife was really happy when I took off to be with my brother at the time of BD for three days, that I was a different person when I got back. Someone she liked, but then she said it lasted 24 hours only. Again, I sit here thinking I put in a big effort for weeks to be a better person, never saying anything wrong, helping out, talking. So what and why is it mentioned that I went back to being the same person. This is why it affects me so much.
I understand fully when I see what I have done wrong and take ownership of it. What is a struggle is it seems so many things I have down wrong, cannot be explained or remembered. It would be okay if I was a drug or drinker but I am not. So I feel scared, confused and a lot of other emotions, when I cannot change something that I don't know is happening.

I don't know. If my friend told me something about my behavior I'd dig as much deeper as I can. I remember over a year ago my best friend told me something what her husband said about me. Oh I remember I was so FURIOUS to hear that. I hate when my friends' spouses say something about me but especially from her husband who she was once ready to leave from said negative about me? I was really mad. But few months later I got a BD bomb from my H and my world shuttered right? While I was soul-searching, one of the things I was able to do was to drop anger about a lot of things. At some point I remembered what her husband said about me and I totally understood why he thought that. Mind you I almost never see him. I've only seen him a couple of times a year but he still saw some negative thing about me, which was totally spot-on.

Can you really not recall any incident that links to why the friend said about your boys being afraid to do anything with you? You seem to think and critic a lot about your sit here so maybe that trait sometimes comes out when you are with boys? I obviously don't know because I don't know you in person.

But what I wanna say is if a couple or few people have said similar things about you, maybe they see what you don't see.
It takes guts for friends and family to point out negatives so when they do I think they mean it.

[T1000]

my boys are scared to do things with me as I constantly criticised them for doing it wrong. When? How? Why? I don't know or remember anything that resembled that, but this came from the boys speaking to the friend rather than the wife.

This reminded me of something that happened with my father.
He took me out for one driving lesson when I was 17. After 45 minutes any confidence I had in my driving was pretty much gone.
I said something like I'm nowhere near ready for my test if I'm this bad!
He said I was really good.
I said all I've heard is bad things.

He was only telling me when I didn't something wrong. No praise when I did it right.

After that the driving lesson went really well because he was communicating with me the way I needed him to.

Sometimes it can be what your not saying.

If I never said anything to him and then later my mother asked me how it went I could have easily said he just criticised me.

Obviously this could be nothing like what you are experiencing with your sons but it shows the situation is not always as we see it.

You could look at the same experience many times and not see the problem if your not equipped to see it.
Rather than looking back trying to get blood from a stone just concentrate on future interactions. Look for your criticising or anything that coud be seen as such. Notice it, adjust what isn't working and move forward.

[Fartiltre]

Hi HWA

SLU and T have already posted but I feel I have to respond as well so here goes!

Again, thanks again, for getting me so well. It helps a lot.

Thanks, this made me feel good!

I posted this some days ago in your thread – it still counts!

Please do take the above as caring! If it seems harsh I will not apologize for it, but if it seems to be not well meant I sincerely do apologize!
HWA, you have been doing great but you have turned to focusing all your energy and thought towards W and worries.

First: It seems to me like you have shifted focus in your last post. You have shifted from W but unfortunately you haven’t shifted to YOU – you have shifted to other people around you. Other people you can’t control.
Keep in mind that this is about YOU, YOU and only YOU!

Fartiltre, it seems that throughout life I have copped constant flak and criticism from people in all walks of life.

This is not about them! It is about you!
And trust me when I tell you that I understand! I have been feeling like the black sheep of the family for almost 30 years. It will never ever go away, but I have learned to deal with it several years ago! I can do whatever I want and these things will still stick! It is a stamp in my forehead! I didn’t behave so well in my teens and the problems started there!
I can’t change what I did, but I can surely look into it and then decide how I feel about it! I have done this with my brother and a friend several times.
This has brought me peace in regards of this. If they want to look at me as the black sheep, then fine by me, because I don’t feel like it. I surely did, but now I don’t! When I did it was extremely hurtful but looking into the thing gave me the opportunity to pay my excuses where I felt it was needed and then move on. I did this in my late twenties. At that point I was a completely different person but it still sticked and it still does!

What you are facing could be similar and I believe it is!

You can’t change what’s done but you must learn to accept it! People talk, yes! But smoke comes from a fire and therefore these matters that people talk about normally have some truth into them.

You can’t rest on these matters – they will haunt you: Either address them or let them go!
When realizing why the smoke is there this is about accepting or acting. Do something or forget about it!

If my friend told me something about my behavior I'd dig as much deeper as I can.

I agree on this one – I would too!

If I never said anything to him and then later my mother asked me how it went I could have easily said he just criticized me.

This is an excellent example!!

If rumors are that you criticize then there is properly something to it.

You should look into these matters! Perhaps you are overlooking something when stating:

my boys are scared to do things with me as I constantly criticized them for doing it wrong. When? How? Why? I don't know or remember anything that resembled that, but this came from the boys speaking to the friend rather than the wife.

And perhaps you haven’t been all the way around when you state:

I understand fully when I see what I have done wrong and take ownership of it. What is a struggle is it seems so many things I have down wrong, cannot be explained or remembered.

What is good is that you see the possibility of “many things” – but you can’t remember or get explanations. I recall you telling about your brother whom you are close to and confidential with. Have you tried consulting him? Or the friend you told about? You need confidentiality because asking people to criticize you is a great deal too many and therefore the answer “I see nothing – you are just a great guy” is always a risk! But then – dig deeper as SLU wrote!

Trust the smoke-thing! There is an origin to this! Seek it and then either do something or let it go!

It affects me when I hear what I have done wrong or said, and I cannot remember those times.

Off course it does! You are human!

The friend mentioned that the wife was really happy when I took off to be with my brother at the time of BD for three days, that I was a different person when I got back. Someone she liked, but then she said it lasted 24 hours only.

If this is a close friend perhaps you could get some explanation. Perhaps this could be interesting to you. I have done this with friends in the past. If it is honest and open it can be very enlightening.

Again, I sit here thinking I put in a big effort for weeks to be a better person, never saying anything wrong, helping out, talking. So what and why is it mentioned that I went back to being the same person. This is why it affects me so much.

That’s her experience! Trust it and look into it!
Also remember that weeks will not pay up for years!

It looks like you have made tremendous changes but do realize that history is darn hard to erase. Read about all the WASs in here that have left the perfect spouse only due to history! Same thing! This is how it goes and you can only control you!
This is also DBing! 180 and then all the patience in the world!


You can make a little shortcut that possible will make you feel good!
MEET NEW PEOPLE!!!! 25 have written this many times – now you know why! Make new friends that only know the new you!
As I recall you have mentioned people paying you compliments more than once in your thread! Focus on this instead! Meet people that’s doesn’t know the old you!





How do you feel when looking into the mirror? If you are OK then people can talk all they want and it won’t get to you because you either know it is the truth or you know it is BS.
When you are not OK this will get to you as it does now! Since you don’t know why people are talking and at the same time you are feel turmoil and hurt because of BD - these things hit you hard.

Reading your thread it seems that you are not feeling OK and that should be your main goal! Not feeling OK will hit your attitude, your self-esteem, your PMA and a lot of other very important factor in regards of how attractive you look!
Consider addressing this with your coach on Tuesday!
Consult your brother, friends and so on!
Read personal development books! (MWD: “Fire your shrink” could be a starter!)
Work on you!

I understand fully when I see what I have done wrong and take ownership of it. What is a struggle is it seems so many things I have down wrong, cannot be explained or remembered. It would be okay if I was a drug or drinker but I am not. So I feel scared, confused and a lot of other emotions, when I cannot change something that I don't know is happening.

I have these feelings as well but only as long as I don’t understand. Enlighten yourself and it will go away! The unknown scares us! If you do something about it this feeling will go away and that’s a promise! I have been there and done that!
It will hang on for a long time. People remember! The important thing is how YOU feel about YOU!
What you are facing has so many parallels to BD and DBing that it blows my mind!

So question is: What will you do?

The list in your post is fine but what about you??? I have put some suggestions above but get into this work and do it now! Also make your goals action oriented for yourself. Example:

better relationship with the boys

How will you act to accomplish this?


You have done well in DBing but as I see it and read it you should start over not looking at wife, M or BD but looking into HWA, friends, sons and so on!

But first get settled in regards of the houses, jetski, settling, finance and all of that!

Maybe it is me who should stand up for myself better. Maybe I shouldn't worry about what is told to me so much.

Make yourself better and content then this won’t be necessary! Standing up will be natural and you won’t worry simply because your self-esteem is in place!

what I really want, and I suppose most of us do, is to simply have that closeness to someone you care so much about. To touch them, to sit with them, to have someone to cuddle up to.

Oh, yes!!! And I am lucky to have kids to ease my pain so again: I understand!!


You seem to be a great guy and I would love to have a cold one with you one day
Keep pushing forward! Keep working on YOU!

Best of thoughts!

F

[hotwheelsaust]

Fartiltre, it seems that throughout life I have copped constant flak and criticism from people in all walks of life. Maybe it is me who should stand up for myself better. Maybe I shouldn't worry about what is told to me so much. It affects me when I hear what I have done wrong or said, and I cannot remember those times. Examples I heard from the friend the other night: my boys are scared to do things with me as I constantly criticised them for doing it wrong. When? How? Why? I don't know or remember anything that resembled that, but this came from the boys speaking to the friend rather than the wife. The friend mentioned that the wife was really happy when I took off to be with my brother at the time of BD for three days, that I was a different person when I got back. Someone she liked, but then she said it lasted 24 hours only. Again, I sit here thinking I put in a big effort for weeks to be a better person, never saying anything wrong, helping out, talking. So what and why is it mentioned that I went back to being the same person. This is why it affects me so much.
I understand fully when I see what I have done wrong and take ownership of it. What is a struggle is it seems so many things I have down wrong, cannot be explained or remembered. It would be okay if I was a drug or drinker but I am not. So I feel scared, confused and a lot of other emotions, when I cannot change something that I don't know is happening.

I don't know. If my friend told me something about my behavior I'd dig as much deeper as I can. I remember over a year ago my best friend told me something what her husband said about me. Oh I remember I was so FURIOUS to hear that. I hate when my friends' spouses say something about me but especially from her husband who she was once ready to leave from said negative about me? I was really mad. But few months later I got a BD bomb from my H and my world shuttered right? While I was soul-searching, one of the things I was able to do was to drop anger about a lot of things. At some point I remembered what her husband said about me and I totally understood why he thought that. Mind you I almost never see him. I've only seen him a couple of times a year but he still saw some negative thing about me, which was totally spot-on.

Can you really not recall any incident that links to why the friend said about your boys being afraid to do anything with you? You seem to think and critic a lot about your sit here so maybe that trait sometimes comes out when you are with boys? I obviously don't know because I don't know you in person.

But what I wanna say is if a couple or few people have said similar things about you, maybe they see what you don't see.
It takes guts for friends and family to point out negatives so when they do I think they mean it.

stilllookingup, the friend is a mutual friend trying is best to help me while I suppose help the W and the family (including my boys). He is very good natured guy and one of those people you are lucky to have friendship with. But in saying that, he would take the friendship with the family (especially the SIL, who is like a daughter to him) over our friendship. When he tells me things he does this for my benefit, for me to learn, for me to understand. He will not tell me anymore about what they either saw/heard/noticed. His view is he would lose the trust of someone else if it was told, again that is more important to him than how it can help/hinder my M.
We spent over 4 hours the other night talking about my relationship with the W, family, sons, and friends. He gives me the negatives and positives as he sees it, as he has heard from others and I suppose from what has come from the separation.
I have been a negative person for many years, always looking at the glass half empty rather than half full. And as T1000's example states, I probably spent more time finding or saying things when something was wrong, rather than when things were right.
Thanks for the help and feedback stilllookingup.