Hmmm...Keep Moving Forward...It needs more fireworks. "Meet the Robinsons"?
I'll tell you what. Bowling is already more impressive than our actual first date. I told her in 1999 that I would take her to a movie after work. We stopped at my house so I could change clothes and ended up watching Monty Python and the Holy Grail. She doesn't remember the movie, just the conversation and laughing.
I'm thinking that I can be most impressive by being more like what I used to be during our first date. Smitten, casual, relaxed, with a dash of humor. I want to be that guy.
I'll work hard at not moving too fast. I had problems with it a few months ago and got burned pretty bad. Thanks for the advice.
I developed a litmus test for my own personal use when trying to figure out what the "right" response to situations involving my W. I tried to develop this test to be in line with both DB and my religion. I am posting this on my thread because: 1) I could be totally wrong. (Please feel free to comment/correct.) 2) I think if there is any merit to how I am thinking then these ideas may be useful to other people on this board.
The test: Am I loving my W?
I believe the promise I made when I got married was that I would love my wife until I died. Two people made that promise that day, but it is only my responsibility to make sure I keep mine. How much of a jerk would I be if I went around making sure other people were keeping their promises? It is the whole argument of worrying about a splinter in somone's eye when I have a log in mine.
Love is an action, not a feeling. I think to love means to do what is in the best interest of someone else even to the extent of your own detriment.
This also means that I can love someone without being "in love" or even happy with them. The big problem with my definition of love is with the definition of "best interest". Generally, I don't know what someone else's best interest is. In broad terms, I think of a person's best interest as personal growth and/or happiness. Again, I don't always know what will provide someone growth or make them happy. I think people have good ideas as to what their own best interests are. In other words, they know what will make them happy.
My approach is to generally support my W in her endeavors (what she thinks will make her happy). I've also taken a position that her feelings are just as important (if not more so) than mine. This makes validating W's feelings important. For example, my W at one point said that our M was not making her happy. In order to continue loving her, I felt I had to accept that a D may be in her best interest even if it I didn't think that it was in mine.
Detachment also makes sense in this theory because then we are not both on the same emotional roller coaster ride. I think it is in her best interest if I can be the rock in her storm. My W has a choice to be with me or not. I want her to have a better choice than she had by GAL and being the best me I can be. I believe that if I stick with this theory that I can live with myself regardless the outcome knowing that I acted with integrity and dignity.
It's an old argument of whether love is a feeling or love is an action. Using the English word of love, which in a dictionary is a noun and described as "strong affection for another arising out of kinship or personal ties", then love is a feeling. One can ACT LOVINGLY, which is of course an action. English is somewhat limited in describing love or being loving.
That said, I think that the Greek had some of the best word definitions which can be understood by most (from Wikipedia):
Agápe "often refers to a general affection or deeper sense of "true love" rather than the attraction suggested by "eros.""
Éros "is passionate love, with sensual desire and longing. The Modern Greek word "erotas" means "intimate love;" however, eros does not have to be sexual in nature."
Philia "means affectionate regard or friendship in both ancient and modern Greek. It is a dispassionate virtuous love, a concept developed by Aristotle. It includes loyalty to friends, family, and community, and requires virtue, equality and familiarity."
Storge "means "affection" in ancient and modern Greek. It is natural affection, like that felt by parents for offspring. Rarely used in ancient works, and then almost exclusively as a descriptor of relationships within the family."
How could you SHOW your W that you love her, using actions?
My W said at one point that she wants to be wanted/asked. Literally, I think she wants me to ask her to do things (like asking her to go on dates). In another respect, I think she just wants me to try harder to help her feel loved.
I read Five Love Languages about a month ago as suggested by many other users on this board. I filled out a list of things last week that I/we can do now and maybe some things I/we can do later if things improve to that point:
Words of Affirmation Now 1) Writing letters/poems 2) Sending texts 3) Saying thank you (showing appreciation for things) Later (Maybe) 1) Telling you how excited you get me
Quality Time Now 1) Walking/exercising together 2) Dating (dinner, dancing, movie, concert) 3) Gin (and other games) 4) Sitting around and talking after the kids go to bed Later (Maybe) 1) Mini-vacations without the kids (Vegas, Bed and Breakfast, Paris, cruise)
Receiving Gifts Now 1) Leaving surprises (like chocolate covered cashews/Swedish Fish) where you will find them 2) Jewelry 3) Plants Later (Maybe) 1) Lingerie 2) Bedroom toys
Acts of Service Now 1) Housework (dishes, laundry, cleaning up, bathing kids and putting them to bed) 2) Yardwork (cutting up tree, preparing area for garden) 3) Special requests (come by and keep kids out of your hair, bring something to your work, print out stuff) Later (Maybe) 1) How may I be of service?
Physical Touch Now 1) Holding hands 2) Bumping into each other for fun Later (Maybe) 1) Neck/back massages 2) Hugging 3) Kissing (and other romantic gestures)
I was thinking of sharing this list with her to see what she is most interested in. It would be nice to have her input to know what makes her feel most loved. If I go that route, I might exclude the Later stuff just so she doesn't think I'm going to fast. Not sure about that yet...
I'm pretty sure that my W's primary love language is Quality Time. I thought she might appreciate things in other areas as well such as Acts of Service.
Unfortunately, I believe my love language is physical touch. I desperately want to ask her if I can hold her hand. When she was really mad a me a few months ago, I would feel desperate and just go up and give her a hug. I thought I was trying to show her closeness and that I still cared. It turns out that I was trying to fill a need in me (while making her more angry at me).
So, I had my date with W on Saturday. It seemed like we were both relaxed and having fun. It was nice to talk with her without the kids around. No serious relationship talks came up. Just hanging out, enjoying life.
A couple of weird things did happen over the weekend. Just before our date (in the car in the driveway), W decided to put her wedding rings on. I don't think she has worn them since December. I didn't say anything. I didn't know what to say or think. It certainly wasn't a bad thing. I'm not sure what it means if anything. So I've been telling myself that it doesn't mean anything. I guess I can mark it as a success for my DB baby goals.
Then, my W was talking about getting old. I said that at least she looked good doing it. She was on the other side of the counter (about 5 feet away). I acted playful like I was reaching to grab her and pull her close. She leans back giggling and says "You can look but you can't...well, your my husband, so I guess you can. Isn't that what girls say to guys all the time? Look but don't touch." Talk about messing with my mind. I swear she is just trying to tease me.
Sigh. I didn't respond to her. If she does want to be touched, I think she needs to initiate (or maybe I need to ask permission?). It still feels like she has a wall up about touching, but it is slowly crumbling. I just need more time and patience. Sigh again.
I like the way you've gone about to cover all LLs in your list. Does she know about the 5LL book?
Either way, I'm thinking that you might want to leave out the idea that it's 5LL oriented, just so that it doesn't come across as looking like a tactic. I also agree that getting her input into the "now" list would be a good idea, and the "later" stuff may be stuff that's too risky, so addressing them later is a good idea.
Even though your W appears receptive to this newly forming R, please be sure that you are taking it slow and not introducing too much, too quickly as it may overwhelm her and may also be difficult to sort out what IS working from what ISN'T working, or possibly causing harm.
If still relevant, try not to dwell on the wedding ring. Yes, think of it as a baby step, even if it hasn't stayed on.
Also, NOT FOR NOW, but maybe in the future, based on your spirituality background (I think) you may want to look at "Fireproof". It's not for everyone here, certainly not at the time when most of us find ourselves here. I feel there are some really good tips to help encourage and grow a M.
I gave my W the list of LL ideas above the next day after I posted it here. Unedited. She said that she loved reading it but that it scared her. Some of the things on the list were things that she felt I had rejected from her earlier. I told her that it was OK to be scared. It just meant that things need to go slow. Also, I tried to emphasize that they were just ideas (or a plan) and not something I was trying to do right now. I'm hoping it got her thinking of what a future us might look like. I also think it relays the message that I wasn't ignoring her. I did hear her all those years.
So, she ended up taking off her wedding ring again. I don't get hugs anymore either. It doesn't bother me though. There are so many other signs/baby steps that I can be confident that what I am doing is working. She let me put sunblock on her (right after she said "You just want to touch me"). W has been flirty and happy when I am around.
I help her with her college homework. She lets me lean in and put my head on her shoulder. I give her letters and poems. She sends me texts and pictures of her smiling. I hang around the house until she goes to sleep so that we can spend time together without the kids. Yeah, her LL is definitely Quality Time.
She likes to talk and text about her day almost all day long. I'm loving it. I feel like her best friend again. I worry about getting stuck in the friend zone. I try to keep up the flirting so that she knows my interest. Her responses are flirty too, so I'm no too worried. I think the intimacy will return when she is ready. No need to rush.
I do wonder when I might be able to move back home. I don't want to bring it up though. I've read stories where WAS was almost ready to be together again when LBS brought up issues. I want to talk about R and future with W. I'm just holding back to see how things are going. I want to see what progress can be made with what I am doing right now.
The wall is cracking. I can see light...is it a miracle? I think so!
W was sad on Friday night. I had been giving her daily notes (like we traded years ago when we dated). I gave her one Friday night. I was relaxing in the same room when she started reading it. After about 10 seconds, she started bawling and crying. I asked her if she was OK (duh, no!). Then I asked if she wanted to talk about it. She got a little angry and said no. I got up. I chirply said, "All right, I'll be off then. Have a good night!" Then I left and went to bed.
Next morning she wakes me up in the spare room. She apologizes and says she was feeling bad about herself as a person. Ok...not really sure how to respond to that one. I'll let her deal with it.
Today, I asked her if she would like to help me make a present for S5 birthday. D3 had a birthday in May. I made a poem and transformed it into a book with pictures of the family dressed up like actors in an adventure. S5 loved role playing for the book. He said he wanted a book for his birthday also (only about trains instead of princesses).
W was still pretty mad at me back in May so I didn't ask for her help in making D3's book. I know she felt left out back then. What could I do? We could barely talk to each other at the time. When I asked today if she wanted to help she texted:
"Sweet, I love that you are including me, makes me feel special..."
Oh yeah. DB rocks! My W is special to me. I didn't have to say it...she already knows.
Well, it's been about 5 months since my last post. Plenty of time to mess things up. In truth, things fell apart a couple of weeks after my last post. I just wasn't ready for the emotional roller coaster. W came home angry at one point and didn't want to be in the same room as me. I'm still not sure why.
Anyway, I got angry too. Things were getting better, and then, suddenly, they were back to where they were without any cause. I got over the anger pretty quickly, but the damage was done. The separation became permanent.
One day in September, I was spending time with the kids. W came home and got angry that I wasn't doing enough with the kids. I got angry back and said I'd live at the house full time then (no more separation). She started packing up the kids stuff to leave the house. I called the cops. She only left with 1 child that night (the 1 not in school). The motion for divorce came the next week.
The court date was supposed to be at the end of October. We came to an agreement via lawyers on the day of the court date. We each get to spend ~1/2 the time at the house with the kids. I pay more toward expenses because I make more. W said a couple of times that she didn't understand the agreement. I think she is just so messed up that she can't think straight. She kept saying her lawyer agreed to such and such...not her. Just a little bit frustrating...
It has been over a month since the agreement/court date. Things have quieted down. No more arguments. I've started talking less and not answering my phone. I figure if it's important she'll text or leave a message. Time to work on my life. Painted my oldest son's room. Planning a vacation with the kids after Christmas. Just got a promotion at work.
I smile more and wear cologne. W noticed cologne on Saturday. W talks about getting a house. She looked at a couple. She says things could be going great right now if not for the divorce. I agree and say things could be great...
W came home angry at one point and didn't want to be in the same room as me. I'm still not sure why.
It happens, WAS's are going through a lot of turmoil and sometimes that'll manifest itself in nasty behavior that seemingly has no cause.
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She started packing up the kids stuff to leave the house. I called the cops.
Well you can't undo that, but you can change your future behavior. There are some great tips in DR about how to modify your own behavior to change your W's response. YOU have the power to stop fights before they start. It takes 2 to fight, but it only takes 1 to defuse the sitch.
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We each get to spend ~1/2 the time at the house with the kids.
That's unusual. I don't see how that could work after D. Where are each of you living when not at the house?
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She says things could be going great right now if not for the divorce. I agree and say things could be great...
Who knows, it may be that the D is underway, that it removed the pressure from her and makes her feel better about things. Just keep giving her time and space.
