Hello everyone! I thought I would post my situation here finally since I'm at the 10-month mark since BD and I could use a little guidance. Thank you in advance for reading! I've been a lurker on this site since last year and everyone is so supportive, it makes me feel nice inside. I know I'm on moderation right now, so hopefully someone will see this post soon. Until then, I will keep journaling here.
I've been with my P (F too) for the past five years and we've been "technically" not together now for the last 10 months. We still live together, though, and although she has been adamant about moving out, she hasn't done so yet. I think financially she cannot support herself on her own, but she does have the option of asking her family for help (which she hasn't), or getting another job (which she hasn't). We do not have any kids, but we do have two cats, so I think that also affects her motivation to move out. Also, we both moved to CA from another state, so don't have the same support system that we'd have if we were still back home.
I have not been the best partner in my relationship. I do have occasional bouts of depression, I was diagnosed with a stomach condition in 2010 (which is inconvenient, especially when I'm having a flare-up), and I sometimes have a hard time expressing my feelings (especially when I'm depressed). I'm currently working on recognizing my feelings, expressing them, and learning how to (lovingly) detach.
In 2012, I was working full-time at my job, taking on freelance gigs on the side, and finishing up my last classes for school. I was busy, busy, busy. I was trying to work hard so that we could perhaps move forward in our relationship (i.e. getting a bigger place, getting engaged, etc.), but I recognize now that I was also emotionally absent this past year. She had a tough year, with the passing of her grandparent, having a hard time finding a job in her field, and basically adjusting to her new life here. I don't think I was emotionally there for her in the way that I should have been. In that time, I was also spending a lot of time talking to one of my old friends from HS. Nothing ever happened physically (or emotionally), but if I can be completely honest, she was more than friend in the sense that I was sharing more of my day with her than my partner. Maybe a gray area friend (if those even exist? maybe I made up the term lol)? I don't excuse my behavior at all, I could have exercised better boundaries so my P felt more secure in our relationship (instead of being short with my P and insisting that nothing was going on -- since I was not physically or emotionally intimate with her). I am very friendly and people tend to have an easy time confiding in me, so since BD#1 I've been working on establishing firmer boundaries with people.
BD #1 (August 2012) - She said she wanted to break out and that she had been unhappy this past year with our relationship. She said she still loved me, but wasn't sure if she was in love with me. She said she felt like she couldn't be in a relationship because in a relationship, she never takes care of herself and only focuses on the other person (she said this problem is not specific to me). She said she didn't know who she was anymore and she wasn't sure if it was because she lacked direction in her own professional life, if it was tied up with our relationship, or just a bigger issue of identity. I did the usual stuff -- cried my eyes out, begged, tried to negotiate for her to change her mind (ha! and how often does that work), etc. I also cut all ties with my friend, gave access to my phone records, FB, email address, etc. She said she appreciated the gesture, but why didn't I do this sooner? She said she was in a different place now, so I apologized, validated, and said I would continue to work on regaining trust in any way I could. After breaking up, we were not physically intimate in anyway (even a hug was rare). She said, in particular, "kissing was too painful" so we kissed maybe only a few times between BD #1 and BD#2.
We did couples therapy for a few months (Aug 2012-Dec 2012) to help with communication and address some of our issues. One issue that I brought up was that I felt one of her male co-workers (btw, my partner identifies as bisexual, just so the story doesn't get too confusing) liked her and she reassured me numerous times (in and out of therapy), she didn't have feelings for him, wasn't attracted to him, nothing was going on, yadda yadda (you see where this is going). Throughout our relationship she had been faithful, so I always felt I was just being paranoid. She brought up again how she has low self-esteem and doesn't know who she is. She said she's always had low self-esteem, but she wants to learn how to love herself. She believed the only way to build her self-esteem was to move out and live on her own. I believed it was possible to find herself and still be together, that it was about finding a balance (because she said she focuses/worries too much about me if I'm around). Eventually I conceded and said I respected whatever she needed to do for herself. She looked for apartments regularly (once I even went with her to look at a place), but she never moved out. In therapy, her IC asked if it would be okay to stay in limbo and not worry so much about the direction our relationship was going in (or not going in). She was feeling a lot of pressure about that,so I told her we wouldn't have to worry about labels, we could just see how things went.. At one point, when she talked about moving out and our status, she said maybe we could start off with dating (whereas before she would always say she wanted to still see me, but she was careful about how she labeled it). So I thought, in some areas, there was progress.
I've been lurking on these forums since late 2012 when I purchased my copy of DB. I was doing a lot of things wrong (lots of crying, neediness, etc.), so I tried to stop that as best I could. Thinking about the big picture was too difficult, so I made small goals and measured those changes, adjusting according to what I thought worked and what I thought didn't work. She was still very closed off, however, saying she was upset at my relationship (she equated it to cheating). Instead of arguing, I validated her feelings and apologized when I felt appropriate. Every month I would set small goals for myself, just like in DB, and then see what worked and what didn't.
In the fall, her Grandma passed away. She took this death particularly hard, especially since her Grandpa passed away less than a year before that. She had said she felt numb, she didn't cry or anything, although she recognized she was extremely sad. I tried to take her out to do things, even took her to church regularly, and although things seemed okay on the surface, I also knew she was reaching a personal breaking point.
Jan 2013 - I came back from my work trip and wanted to do something nice (she was out with her family for dinner) and load more magazines onto her ipad. Her safari happened to be open and I saw some unsavory things (e.g. searching how to not be a booty call, among other things). I texted her to confront her and she first denied it, then said we would talk when she got home. At the time, I felt bad for assuming such a terrible thing but when she got home and I confronted her again, she broke down crying and admitted what she did.
She said her co-worker was fired on Friday (before I left for work my work trip), so she texted him to see what happened. Apparently this texting continued after I left, she went to have dinner with her family on Saturday night, then he invited her over to his house. She went over, got drunk, and said he was forceful, but she consented and they slept together. I don't know how much of this I believe, but I guess it doesn't matter because what happened happened. She said she felt awful for what she did, came home and cried, and I guess when he texted again to invite her over, she said no. I was, as you can imagine, furious. She said a million times she didn't like him, just liked the attention, he was a womanizer, and she was just feeling really terrible about herself. For the most part, I believe her story. I think they texted occasionally (and I don't think he speaks English very well) and I know she used to take him home sometimes after work (because he's a loser that doesn't drive and lives at home with his parents), but I believe her that what happened only happened once. I believe her when she says she was in a very dark place when that happened and that she's not there anymore. It's a touchy subject to talk about, even now, because I feel like I can't express myself without her feeling responsible and like a bad person. So for now, I don't express my feelings about what happened. I will wait to have these conversations until her sense of self isn't so fragile. In the beginning, I completely blamed myself for what she did. I felt responsible for where we were. Since then, I think I've been able to designate what is my responsibility, but also what is hers.
Jan 2013 - Now
Since then, she has offered full transparency. She has blocked his number, given me access to her email address, FB, etc. I also have her GPS location (which we used to have on before anyway, not as a paranoia thing). I don't snoop, however, and I'm proud of that. The only thing I do is check her GPS location, but only when we're going to meet and I need to time how long she'll take. I don't use it as a way to keep tabs on her overall. She still works at the same place, which is a trigger for me (even though this co-worker was supposedly fired), but she no longer hangs out at work after her shift. She will still eat dinner after her shift, but she comes home right after (sometimes she'd end up hanging out until well after midnight). She said although she still is unsure of our future together, she is dedicated to regaining my trust.
The months following BD#2 were extremely painful. I was in so much pain that it was hard to detach and hard to look at her without being visibly upset. I felt like I was back at square-one in terms of progress (probably even worse off). What did change, however, was our physical intimacy. We were physically intimate a few times (after nearly 6 months of not), and she said "I love you" regularly, also began kissing me nearly every time we parted. Nothing major, just a peck on the lips. But still progress, I hope.
She started doing IC and I continued with my weekly IC sessions. We started to have honest conversations about what happened (about BD#2, but also her grievances with my behavior in our relationship). Some conversations were more productive than others and we are still learning to communicate better (we both make many incorrect assumptions about what the other person is saying).
Recently: We are getting along better overall, but there's still a long way to go. Things are less romantic (no ML since a few months ago, hand holding, etc), but she does kiss me regularly (goodbye peck on the lips) and say I love you when we leave each other. I consider this at least small progress from late 2012 when she said "no kissing" because it was too hard and her "I love you"s were sporadic and terse. She is more playful now, though--like she'll punch my arm randomly, or poke my butt if I'm walking in front of her. I feel like she's kind of regressed to a teenager in some ways, but maybe that's just me. She obviously treats me as more than a friend, but it still feels less than a partner (at least a grown up partner). She does not mention moving out as often as she did before, although she does say it's still something she'd like to do (to learn how to be independent). Yesterday she bought new sheets and pillowcases for the bed, which surprised me. Occasionally now she'll mention wanting to re-decorate the apartment. I am careful not to get excited by admissions like this. I don't want to get blindsided again later :-/
For the most part, I am trying to be emotionally present without being needy. I am trying to not be a fixer and give her the space to work through her problems. Sometimes I get frustrated by my situation and the romantic component of our relationship that's now absent, but I am grateful for the progress I've made still. She's not mean to me or anything, but she can be detached.
I guess I'm wondering if what I'm doing is working? She hasn't moved out (yet) -- it's been nearly 10 months since she said she planned on moving out. Our interactions are much better overall, but she still occasionally mentions moving out (and I know she still looks at places online, although probably not as often). She also said, then and now, that she still feels like she won't be able to get real clarity about us probably until she moves out. With that said, is it better trying to push her to move out so she gets the distance she claims she wants? Or should I continue doing what I'm doing, trying to improve our relationship while we're still living together, with the deep-down-hope that she'll change her mind about moving out (and hopefully me).
Hi, I am glad that you are here and asking for advice. I am sure you will get some:) It seems like there has been alot of issues that might not of been dealt with completely, that would be helpful to understand clearly. If you aren't talking to one of our DB coaches, it would be extremely insightful for you to understand what your goal actually is and what you can start doing to accomplish it. I also think dealing with the intimacy issues would be part of that goal. Ask to speak to a coach that is an expert in that area. Take good care.
Karen, Resource Coordinator The Divorce Busting Center 303-444-7004 karen@divorcebusting.com
Give me a call if you'd like to schedule an appointment to speak with a Divorce Busting® Coach.
Karen - Thanks for responding to my thread! You're absolutely right about how there are issues that have not been dealt with completely and I think I'm only now starting to delve into those issues in IC. Would most definitely like to talk to a DB coach when my finances aren't so tight (those student loans are a killer!).
Cadet - Hi there! Thank you for taking the time to read my thread You ask a really good question--and I think sometimes I forget I need to take care of myself too. I've always been that way, not just in my romantic relationships. So I'm really trying to break the pattern and strike a better balance.
What am I doing for me? Hmmm...Weekly IC has actually been a great help for me in untangling my feelings about not just the situation, but about my life and how I was raised. I've been going weekly since August of last year and before that, I had a therapist back home that I'd see about once a month.
Socially, I can't say I've done much but I don't feel depressed about it. I'm kind of a homebody anyway and I don't drink anymore (because of my meds), so I do mellow things like go to bookstores, hang out with the few friends I have here, or talk to my best friend back home on the phone.
I'm also a writer, so I've been setting aside to write (which I neglected during the last year or so) and that has been really therapeutic for me. I also play music (and sing quite awfully) and that helps too!
I've started a Project365 this year where I vow to do 365 things that I've always wanted to do but never got around to. Some tasks are easy, like watching a bunch of movies I've never seen before, or learning how to cook a certain dish. I just started, but it's been a nice way to feel...less lost, I suppose. I guess I like the idea that I'm working towards completing something.
This has been a quiet week and for that I'm really grateful. Overall we're fighting much less, which allows us to spend time together without it feeling tense.
Both P and I are in IC (with different therapists). While my IC is very solution-oriented, hers is different than mine. It seems like her therapist is trying to teach P how to articulate her feelings, how to not be so hard on herself, and how to take care of herself.
P always says she has a lot of anxiety about her career, about moving out, etc. I think she feels a lot of pressure to be further along in her career, so I have been trying extra hard to make sure she doesn't feel pressure from me in other aspects of her life.
In the beginning, my P and I saw my therapist for couples therapy. Since she's very solution-oriented and my P expressed her desire to move out and learn how to be independent, my therapist focused on how to make that happen. My P's therapist seems to focus on being okay with living in limbo, suggesting this might be where she's meant to be.
Likewise, her therapist suggested that maybe there's a reason why she's still living with me and maybe this is exactly where she needs to be right now. She asked P if there were any positives about us still living together and she responded that we enjoy each other's company, that she feels like she can really be herself around me, and that I really know her. She told P that that's a gift and very special.
I asked P, "aren't you always yourself around me?" She replied yes, but that recently she feels like she can show me more of herself, parts that she doesn't show anyone. That actually felt nice.
Since her session earlier this week, she's been noticeably more affectionate toward me. Not just physically, but verbally too. She's more talkative and less closed off, she hugs me more (and has even asked for hugs), and finds way to casually touch me if we're in the same vicinity. Not something as obvious as holding hands, but sometimes small stuff like slipping her foot under my leg if we're watching television together. Maybe it's nothing, I don't know.
The other night she cooked me a special dinner (she rarely cooks) and asked me a million times after if I liked the food. In the past, she might have asked once about the food (if, at all) but on that night she wanted to know what I thought about each dish, so I made sure to show my appreciation (since she used to complain I didn't do that enough before).
Things I did for myself this week: applied for more freelance work, researched grad schools in the area, went to see a play my friend was in, played music (I even recorded a video of me playing a song for my mom and sent it to her, which made her happy).
I have decided that regardless if my P remains stuck in the same place (professionally, emotionally, etc.), I would continue to work on myself and set myself up for whatever happens next. Just need to remind myself to keep working hard!
I am still on moderation, so I'm not sure who will see this (and when), but I was wondering how people handle DBing when they're still living with their partner and on fairly good terms with them?
I read Sandi2's 37 rules regularly and they have been a great help overall and I think have improved my interactions with my P since BD (although I know I still have a long way to go). In some ways I'm grateful for being in limbo, because it means she has not made a decision yet, but limbo also means....she hasn't made a decision yet. I suppose I am grateful for limbo too at this point because it's giving me time to really figure out if this relationship is what I want, but this great unknown also stresses me out.
Some have mentioned that their partners did not make a decision about their relationships until they moved out (and thus experienced a big loss and were forced to really evaluate if they wanted the R), but I was wondering if it's possible for a WAS (or near-WAS) to experience the same kind of epiphany without moving out?
Specialk, The more you post, the sooner you will get off moderation.
I have been on the boards for two years.. and I've seen very few stories where the WAS changes her mind whilst living with the LBSer.
I don't necessarily think it's impossible, it's just so much MORE of a challenge to detach when you have constant contact. And it's not until you really detach that your sitch can change.
Work on GALing, PMAing, Giving her space.. etc. Fake it until you make it.
And you can make it.. but you gotta give yourself time. Time to process, time to heal. Be okay with the fact that you aren't ok... but know that the only way to be okay is start living like you will be.
And once you are ok... then.. and only then.. a WAS might change their mind.
Keep posting.
M(f): 40 D'ed: 8/12
Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.
Thank you for your insight, it is much appreciated! I had a feeling that it would probably be rare that a WAS changed their mind while still living together. You're definitely right, having constant contact makes it soooo hard to really detach. I struggle with that a lot.
I think since it doesn't seem my Ex won't be moving out any time soon (even though she said she's set on moving out), I will continue GALing, PMAing, and lovingly detach from her. I definitely still have a lot of my own feelings to work through. There are days when I'm not okay, depressed, angry, etc. My ups and downs are definitely less extreme than a few months ago, but I still have more emotional work to do for myself!
I try to be friendly most of the time around theEx, like I would with a friend, although I think sometimes I slip up and I act a bit relationship-y. About 6 months ago, she would seem tense if I acted that way around her, but now, she normally (not always) is warm to it unless she is feeling stressed out/closed off herself.
She used to say that I was very detached and short with her while we were together, so I'm trying my best to be emotionally present without being too needy. It feels like a very fine line to walk sometimes. I want to be okay, be a bit mysterious, etc. but I don't want to be too closed off where it reminds her of how I acted while we were together. So I'm trying to be warm/casual in our interactions, but don't go to her for big stuff (like you would in a relationship).
If I am feeling sad/irritable/angry (if I'm having intrusive thoughts about what she did), I try my best not to show it around her. I usually tell her I'm not feeling good, which is a reasonable explanation since I have stomach issues lol
GAL Activities:
-Writing. Set aside 1 hr a day for writing--whether it's freelance work, journal writing, fiction, etc.
-Exercise 2-3 times a week. Okay, I've been slacking on this one lately. Need to get back into it--it's just so darn hot outside!
-Hang out with friends. I don't have many friends here and I'm an introvert, so I don't need lots of social interaction to feel happy, but I'm trying to make more effort with those friends I have, whether it's going over to their house to hang out, seeing a movie, dinner, etc.
-Go back to school! This is actually my favorite upcoming GAL activity and I'm excited for it. I already have my B.A., but I'm returning to school in the fall to get a Certificate in Marketing, which is what I do for work anyway. I think it'll be a good way to pad out my resume a bit and hopefully make me look a bit more attractive to freelance clients, plus I really enjoy learning.
-Travel. I have two trips planned to visit family on my own coming up in the next few months.
Short-Term Goals:
-Don't make plans for us to do things together, let her be the one to make plans if she wants to, but also make plans on my own without considering her schedule.
-Don't say "I love you" first. I generally don't anymore, she usually says it first when we say goodbye, but I think I will continue to not initiate it.
-Refrain from giving advice, even when asked for it. Instead I will just validate whatever theEx is feeling and that's it. I feel like this will help me detach because then I won't get so irritated when she doesn't do anything about the problems in her life.
Journaling
I'm feeling a bit sad this week, but I've done a good job at keeping busy and distracting myself from it. Figuring out my school stuff is taking a lot of my energy and I feel good about how busy I'll be in the fall. Just found out one of my friends is pregnant and another two just announced they're getting married. I'm really happy for all of them, but I guess I also feel a bit sad because everyone's lives seem to be moving forward while I am stuck in limbo. I know that there are good things about limbo (like the fact that it means she hasn't made a firm decision yet), but sometimes I feel tired.
In a couple of weeks it's theEx's birthday, plus we're going to Comic Con together, and then Vegas for her birthday. Busy, busy, busy. It was just supposed to be the two of us going to Vegas and then visiting her sister, but one of her friends is coming to visit with her boyfriend and suddenly it turned into some group thing with two other couples. So that should be interesting.
Only some of our friends know we're not together anymore and even less know what actually happened. I'm not sure if the friends we're going to Vegas with know that we broke up? Although, even when we were together, we weren't particularly affectionate in public anyway, so I doubt anyone would notice the difference between us being together or not.
You ask a really good question--and I think sometimes I forget I need to take care of myself too. I've always been that way, not just in my romantic relationships. So I'm really trying to break the pattern and strike a better balance.