Trying to regain what the title says. Some days I think we're getting there, some days I don't.
We get along great, we laugh a lot, she shows me lots of affection, we have a two amazing kids we both adore. We're fairly successful and have the material things-we live in a large beautiful house on a nice street, we drive nice cars etc. I would consider both of us as attractive people. Since BD and W EA a year ago I believe I've 180'd all of her concerns. I've spent a year getting in shape and have physically never looked better. But I'm still a work in progress, I want to continue to make myself a better person, for myself and my family.
My W thinks I'm a great person and a great father. She sees all the changes in me.
Despite all this my W has attraction issues with me.
This never seemed to be a problem pre BD, but since then its our #1 issue.
I'm trying to learn the tools to strengthen our emotional connection. There's many times I wish someone would tell me word for word what to say to my W.
I know I can't change her and can only change myself. I know I need to be patient.
But being in limbo as to whether she will ever be "in to me" again is very hard some days, most days.
I try to keep a PMA, and try to remain strong and confident. But a lot of the time how I'm feeling on the inside is a different story.
M-38 W-32 D7, S4 M-10 BD-May '12 S for 1 month-June '12 Reconcile, Piecing
Hi BC39.. I am feeling the same way as you right now.. I am married, with children, nice house, nice neighborhood, everything appears great from the outside... I am having the same issues as you, where my H sees me as more of a 'friend' than a 'wife', and I feel he is no longer attracted. I am desperately trying to think of ways to get that 'emotional connection' back... I am also at a loss as to how to go about doing that. Right now I am just trying to stay afloat, by doing my 180's and GAL. Staying in Limbo is definitely challenging to say the least. Keep up your PMA, and positive changes for yourself.
M: 8 yrs T:14 Twins:7 S:5 BD:'NLILWY': Feb/2013 Mar/Apr/May: MC June: "living in limbo" Sept 12: H moves out Oct 20: reconciling Jan-Feb 2014:MC Feb 2014: separating, and H moved out.
Hi Highway, sorry to hear your in a similar spot, thanks for posting.
Journal
The last week hasn't been great. I haven't initiated any S and have toned down any S talk. I have however made a couple small passes with playful grabs/flirting and it appeared she got uncomfortable-that's a first.
Quote: "After BD when we were going to MC it came up that we should be doing 10 second kisses, but we didn't do it. "
Originally Posted By: MrBond Well now you know what happens when you don't follow advice. Learn and just do it. No sex or copping a feel. Just take her in your arms one day and kiss her for no reason at all. Then walk away.
I made an attempt at this and it didn't go well. We we're lying on the bed, I started kissing her but she wouldn't open her mouth.
I can't remember what was said word for word, but it went something like this...
The mood of the convo was light.
Me: I'd like to do more than just closed mouth kisses
Her: But I love our closed mouth kisses, we haven't kissed like that in a long time
Me: It wasn't that long ago Her: And then you'll put your little lizard tongue in there (referring to her dislike of how I kiss)
Me: Well maybe we should try to start from scratch, you might just like it
At this point we got interrupted by the kids. W took them downstairs to get ready as they were leaving for the morning. A few minutes later she called upstairs to say they were leaving. I called down to say "ok bye, see you in a while". She asked me to come downstairs and asked why I wouldn't see her to the door to give her a kiss goodbye. She said (kind of playfully) "what I say one thing that irks you and you get upset?". I said "no not at all, I was just getting ready".
It feels elementary talking about this ^^^^ but I think it's important.
On Friday W came into work. This was the first time she'd come into work in a couple weeks (she's been working from home so we don't have to work together). I made appts outside of the office so I didn't have to be there.
She ended up being very busy and my parents were driving her crazy. This has been an issue for a long time. My W has come to hate the line of work and working with my parents. A lot of that resentment got turned toward me.
Anyway, we met up after work for dinner with the kids and I asked her how her day went. She said "I swear that most of our issues have stemmed our work environment". I validated but reminded her that "I'm not my parents".
W is slowly transitioning to leaving the family business. She started her own unrelated business. Until then, as I said, she is working from home.
Its been nice to see each other at the end of the day and ask "how did your day go?". We haven't been able to do that since we we're married over 10 years ago.
I sent W an EBook summary of the book "Project Happily Ever After" a couple weeks ago. She hasn't read it yet.
Quote: My W just took LL quiz a couple weeks ago. When she got it she asked "do I answer based on my ideals or how I feel now". I told her to base it on her ideals.
Originally Posted By: MrBond You should have told her to base the test on how she "feels" right now. She could have always changed it after that.
She hasn't done this yet either. Last night she was telling me that she filled out an extensive quiz that tells you what dog breed is best suited for your lifestyle (she's been asking me to buy a dog lately). I said you took the time to fill out that quiz but you haven't done the 5LL quiz I asked if you could do. She said she would.
Talking about relationship with W is tricky. She gets uncomfortable when there's any sort of pressure. She never asks to speak about the relationship.
She I keep talking to her about R? We don't talk about it often. We had a good talk a few weeks ago after our bump in the road but that was the last time.
Do I talk to her further about her "attraction issues'? DO I ask her for more detail on her feelings?
We haven't had S in 2-3 weeks. I start to get very uncomfortable at this point. Its like I need it to feel validated. I yearn for it. Not just the physical act but the connection. I yearn for her to be in to me again.
Sad but true.
Despite that, I try to keep PMA and strength and confidence.
M-38 W-32 D7, S4 M-10 BD-May '12 S for 1 month-June '12 Reconcile, Piecing
Me: I'd like to do more than just closed mouth kisses
Her: But I love our closed mouth kisses, we haven't kissed like that in a long time
Me: It wasn't that long ago Her: And then you'll put your little lizard tongue in there (referring to her dislike of how I kiss)
OUCH!! LOL! OK, well I'm told I'm an amazing kisser, I don't say that to boast but to explain why they then want to tell me all their war stories about bad kissing. It seems that most guys think great kissing is trying to ram their tongue down the woman's throat or check their molars out with it or flop their tongue around like a fish just pulled out of the water, but most women want a much more tender and gentle approach. Many women are absolutely repulsed by a bad kisser. Some will just tell bad kissers that they hate kissing (even though they don't) just so they can avoid having to suffer it again. The flip side of that is women find great kissing to be incredibly erotic, so mastering kissing can open the door to making an amazing connection with someone. Anyway, if your W says she wants closed mouth kissing, then go with that for now. Master that before trying open-mouthed kissing again. Communicate with her, ask her what she likes and doesn't like about your kissing. Then try to follow through on that, and ask her if you're doing better. She'll no doubt be flattered that you're asking because it shows her that you're listening to her and that you genuinely care about her desires.
OUCH!! LOL! OK, well I'm told I'm an amazing kisser, I don't say that to boast but to explain why they then want to tell me all their war stories about bad kissing. It seems that most guys think great kissing is trying to ram their tongue down the woman's throat or check their molars out with it or flop their tongue around like a fish just pulled out of the water, but most women want a much more tender and gentle approach. Many women are absolutely repulsed by a bad kisser. Some will just tell bad kissers that they hate kissing (even though they don't) just so they can avoid having to suffer it again. The flip side of that is women find great kissing to be incredibly erotic, so mastering kissing can open the door to making an amazing connection with someone. Anyway, if your W says she wants closed mouth kissing, then go with that for now. Master that before trying open-mouthed kissing again. Communicate with her, ask her what she likes and doesn't like about your kissing. Then try to follow through on that, and ask her if you're doing better. She'll no doubt be flattered that you're asking because it shows her that you're listening to her and that you genuinely care about her desires.
Lol, thats the funny part, I don't think shes a good kisser. From how you describe it she kisses like a guy. I feel like she tries to stick her tongue half way down my throat. I try to be more sensual about it. I've kissed many women before my W and never had any complaints.
I've told her we need to re-try and find a new technique but she just kind of laughs it off. I'll try further to communicate with her and see where that takes me.
Back to the basics!
M-38 W-32 D7, S4 M-10 BD-May '12 S for 1 month-June '12 Reconcile, Piecing
I didn't say anything about trying to put your tongue down her throat. Just a simple kiss and then that's it.
"Her: But I love our closed mouth kisses, we haven't kissed like that in a long time""
She asked for this, take this as a starting point.
"I made an attempt at this and it didn't go well. We we're lying on the bed, I started kissing her but she wouldn't open her mouth."
So? That's her choice. You have to feel her out to see what she wants and not.
"Me: I'd like to do more than just closed mouth kisses"
Right now you need to concentrate on what SHE'd like to do. Do a slow buildup to the kiss.
There were a number of positives in your interactions. Just the fact that she wants to buy a dog together is a good one.
About the lizard comment. IMHO, when she says something like that again, take her to the side and tell her that you don't appreciate comments like that. That you're trying to be a better kisser for her, however if she doesn't start telling you how she wants it, it will always be the same. Tell her that's how a couple communicates with each other.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
From my perspective--kissing doesn't just need to be about mouth-to-mouth. If she likes closed-mouth start there, but try kissing her cheeks, her nose, her chin, her forehead,...then try other areas...gauge her reaction. Keep things moving.
And, stop TALKING so much about it! I would find that a big turn-off to have to TELL a man how to kiss. Experiment w/o words. Her reaction will tell you everything you need to know.
ANd, I disagree w MrBond about the lizard comment...laugh it off & say "I was going for something else, but okay...!"
Even if she LOVED your kisses in the past if things are amiss in your R then the kisses will be perceived differently too, so don't get discouraged.
Just my two cents!
M- 18 T-21 S-14,11 & 10 BD 6-18-2012 (OW-EA) H moved out 11-3-2012 10-5-13 Me- I want a divorce. I want to move on w my life. 11-25-13 Jointly filed.
"ANd, I disagree w MrBond about the lizard comment...laugh it off & say "I was going for something else, but okay...!""
I disagree with this. BC39 mentioned that his W would make comments about his kissing. They came off as simple remarks, but after awhile, those things start to build and create resentment. If she doesn't like the way he kisses, then she needs to tell him why.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
It depends on context. In my sitch that would have been an extremely hurtful and insulting remark to make. Very not-funny.
My H turned into a horrible kisser in the last few months that I remember getting any kisses from him. He would literally envelop my face with his gaping mouth and get spit all over me. I could barely stand it. But I was very sensitive to being respectful and constructive and I tried to stay in the "I love it when you..." rather than the "I hate it when you..." territory. It backfired and I got a whole lot of nothing rather than any interest in trying to explore what I might like, and then not too long after, the bomb. There is no way on earth I'd have been so insensitive as to talk about his lizard tongue. That is almost calculatedly rude.
I would, however, chalk it up to a WAS being a WAS and try not to take it personally. I would not stand for it in the moment and say hey be a little kind why don't you, but not make a huge deal about it. It could just be a bit of justifying things aren't working kind of stuff...I believe when you both WANT things to work you will both want to try a little harder and will get there.
I think when she said she likes close mouthed kisses, though, that was a gift wrapped present of a statement of what she likes. Honor that. Learn how to do very sexy close mouthed kisses until she wants something more intense. You don't get to decide for her what she should like or want.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
I agree with Ad. The kissing comment is indeed a gift, so work on that .
Kiss her nose, eyelids, bite her lip gently...etc. Dude, you have carte Blanche and no lizard tongue required
Joking aside, that was a hurtful rude statement your W made btw. She did, however, tell you what she wanted afterwards. That is, close mouthed.. Remember, our first reactions when arrows fly are to deflect through blame, accusation and retribution. When you act instead of react, you allow the emotions to sit with you instead of making a joke or brushing it aside.
You would have gained major points with me if you had taken my face in your hands, looked me in the eye and kissed me the way I wanted
. 