Thanks, all - it should be fun. Like I said, I am quite nervous about the whole adventure, but I am sure somehow we will make it all work out.
In my ongoing efforts to be honest and transparent here, I have to admit that I am really struggling still with "no contact". I have stuck by it for the most part - we had a few "business" e-mails fly back and forth yesterday - but they were just that - business. I informed her of my vacay plans with S via TM and she responded later "He will love it". That was about it.
Even though I am putting faith in the fact that it is possible that the opposite might be happening, I feel as if cutting out contact serves to only push her further away right now and comes across as an angry reaction from me. Something along the lines of "you hurt me, so I am not talking to you anymore". Now, I KNOW that is not the case - but I feel that way nonetheless. Moreover, it feels as if going dark says to XW "....and by the way, don't YOU talk to me either". I guess I fear that in the absence of communication we will just grow further and further apart day by day until there is nothing. Maybe that's the goal in all of this - honestly, sometimes I do not know. I have had to keep things boiled down to a one-day-at-a-time level just to make it through (I forget that at times).
In the mornings, and I know I have said this before, I think of her often - and sometimes I just want to text her and tell her that I am thinking of her -- and ask how her last few days have been. I don't - but as I am looking in the mirror getting ready in the morning I find myself justifying all sorts of reasons why I should. Ultimately, I have not.
In the spirit of trying to be loving during all of this, I try to be upbeat and positive during exchanges when she sees me. I compliment what she is wearing or how she looks (nothing too "schmoopy", just kind words). She reacts shyly...almost unable to make eye contact and quickly moves past the compliment. No idea what that means.
At any rate, that's where I am today. I still really miss her and my family and still hope things will work out over time. I hope that she will miss me, but I am dedicated to not looking over my shoulder to check. I'll admit that part of me wanted her to feel as if she is going to miss out on a good time with me and S when we are away....miss out on good family memories....and feel kind of a loss. That's not WHY I chose to go, but part of me wished for that (I know it is small, and I know it is not very DB-like, just being honest).
As has always been the case, my posts here (especially as of late) are mostly journaling and sharing thoughts by nature. Sometimes physically writing something out helps me arrange thoughts and process - and I am always very appreciative of the help, support and feedback I get here. That is for sure.
What causes me to hold on....
Somewhere after the original bomb date, as the dust began to settle, I had very clear, very vivid, very brief dream. The entire vision in the dream couldn't have lasted more than 15-20 seconds or so. In the dream I was sitting on the edge of my bed reaching into the drawer in my nightstand where I have kept my wedding ring buried since the day I took it off. I pulled it out, and what was once silver was now dinged, scraped, speckled with dirt and a little tarnished. BUT I was putting it back on. And I knew I was putting it back on because we had reconciled. I felt a feeling of happiness and relief.....the. I woke up. I never forgot that dream or that feeling. Knowing that the tarnish on my wedding ring was symbolic of the difficulties XW and I endured (are enduring) during this process. We were restored.
#2 - I know I posted this before right around when it happened back in December, but I felt as if I had a...well....sorta "spiritual" experience at the evening Christmas Eve service at church. I went with S and left him at the church nursery. Needless to say at that point last year I was really lost, in pain, and missing my family. The holidays (as we all know here) are rough. During the service, which was beautiful by the way, I had a moment of clarity and heard in my head "Give her back to me - I still have work to do with her....your work had to come first". I can't explain the feeling of calm, reassurance and tranquility that came over me after that. It lasted for hours. In fact, it really helped me detatch more while she was away with S after Christmas for a week. She reached out a lot at that point asking me how I was doing. Well, maybe not "a lot" but more than usual for certain. That message reduced my fear and anxiety...a lot. But I often wonder if it was a Devine message or if I was just talking to myself/placating.
When XW moved back in I thought it was the climax of that message I received on Christmas Eve. That her work with God had been done and she was back. And I felt the next vision to come into focus was to be me putting my battle-scarred wedding ring back on. Well, then she left again as I have we'll documented here.
Is there something to this? I will be the first to admit that I am not the most hyper-religious man on earth. I DO believe in God and try to maintain some sort of relationship there. I know that I came into that service looking for peace and answers and I left with what I was asking for.
So those two things are why I hold on. They are why went I think about quitting or seriously looking to date someone else I feel like alarms are going off and I'm driving the wrong way in oncoming traffic.
Could that be real? Could it? Or am I just seeing what I want to see and not really getting a higher message on this. There was so much for me to learn in this process about the value of family, separating from my parents to be my own man/family, loving my wife, listening with open ears and heart, being a dad....the list goes on. I feel like there was divine purpose and intent and it is hard for me to ignore.
Just throwing out conversation fodder and sharing the stuff in my head I suppose.
......and, like the message I felt I received, is this round of "I'm in/I'm back out" part of the the work that is being done with her and I'm just caught in the middle somehow??
Fwiw, I have never had a dream I felt had any special meaning or message. However, I have experienced what you did in that service. Sometime it is a message of hope, sometime it is guidance, or a better understanding.. Knowing in the One you believe and trusting Him to do things His way and in His time ........that is the really hard part.
Btw, good job in making plans for vacation with S.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Nice job on the vacation plans, Crimson. I just did the same thing myself, taking the two Ds to NYC for a three-day trip to see the city and relatives. That's normally stuff the W would handle but I did all of it ... from the reservation to the planning to the interaction with everyone. It was nice. The kids only commented once about missing W and wishing she was there. They talked to her each night before bed, and I did as well, but only when she asked to speak to me. I didn't initiate contact the entire time (which was difficult), except to send a couple of pictures of the kids that were taken in NYC.
Hang in there ... I know you can handle it.
Me 47 W 44 T 17 years, M 15 years D13, D10 March 2013 -- broke a trust/cheated late May 2013 -- W spoke of separation for first time June 2013 -- began reading DB
If ever I make the mistake of talking about things in my sitch again with my parents please....someone on this board just punch be square in the throat.
Nothing like a conversation with these lovely phrases:
"Why would she ever come back again? What would she ever see/feel differently about you that she didn't see this time?"
"Why would SHE ever change?"
and, my personal fav:
"Well, pardon my frankness but I just don't think she loves you!"
That is pretty much when I wrapped the call up.
Listen, I get it - we are apart. We are divorced. She just moved out. And, believe it or not, I am trying to progress onward with my life (despite my father implying otherwise). Have I given up 100% on the hope of restoring my family? No. I have not. Am I a fool? Maybe -- I really don't know. But there is something in me that even while detaching (I am doing a pretty decent job pulling back and going dim) that tugs at me to not waive ALL of the white flag yet. I know this may never get any better - but just from being on these boards I have learned that from the seat I am currently in there are a LOT of scenarios that can materialize - some good, some bad. My father has decided that there are nothing but bad conclusions. And, frankly, maybe he is right. But I still carry hope while moving on with my life.
How can you not have feelings for someone that you have shared so much of life with, brought a life into this world with? How could things that I could have said or done completely voided the love she professed for me at one point? Why does it seem that she is determined that there is a better alternative out there for her and our son? How can you say see so many positives in someone and claim to have no feelings? These questions kill
Amen. Tough, tough questions. I've mentioned this before in my thread, but around 4 months before BD my wife told me through tears that she could not survive without me, that if anything ever happened to me she didn't see how she could go on living, not even for the kids. Then 4 months later she's done, doesn't love me, wants nothing to do with me and has felt that way for years supposedly. What was different about me at BD than 4 months before BD? Absolutely nothing. So how could she so completely and utterly change her mind like that in only 4 months, after over two decades together in a marriage that others were jealous of? I'll never know. And you won't either. So do what I did- QUIT ASKING Seriously, those questions will just eat you alive and you will NEVER get a satisfactory answer. We work on ourselves, we detach and GAL, we hold hope for saving our M's alive while preparing for life after M, and we set aside our need for answers. That's how we get through this
Oh my gosh, my husband did the same thing. October he gave a speech about "none of it matters if he doesn't have me".
March he doesn't want to be married anymore and hasn't been happy for a year.
someone on this board just punch be square in the throat.
I did mention the christmas trip to my brother the other day which was strange for me. Other than that I haven't really spoke to anyone about my sitch other than C and on here for months and months.
Every few months someone will bring it up. I tell them I don't know what is happening.
I hate this phrase but I'm going use it anyway. At the end of the day...your parents are human and they have their own opinions and want what they think of the situation or what is best for you. They are not right and they are not wrong.
The only place you are guaranteed that people will be behind you to fight for and fix your marriage is here.
Don't instigate the conversation and don't carry on the conversation if they start it.
M36 W31 S4 S2 T5 M4 BD Jan12 S July12 Recon Sep12-Nov12 ILBINILWY Jan13 OM x 2 in 2013 W wants R July 13 I start D. Jan 14. Meet GF Nov 13 Have I changed enough? Jul 14
It was really an emotionally draining discussion and it felt like every third or fourth sentence was a punch in the stomach. I was so drained I just laid down on the couch afterwards.
Over the last few days despite trying to close all of this out of my head I keep having flashbacks of the many positives that occurred while she was back at the house. It makes everything so much more confusing. There were moments when out of the blue she would just give me the biggest hug around my neck. Or I would hold S and we would all happily group hug. Or we would move all the furniture, pop popcorn and sit on blankets and pillows watching movies with S. When she first moved back and the weather was nice the three of us would walk to the park - holding hands most of the way. After all I had been through up to that point it was the happiest I had been in a long time.
I guess I say all of that wondering which version of XW was real? That one or the one that says she has no feelings and moves out abruptly. Did she get spooked?
I haven't said much about it here (or anywhere for that matter) - but after the three months and some discussions we made some pretty serious moves with regard to using out final embryo. To the extent that we had consulted with our doctor. One week before she left again we were at the doctors office and she was having an ultrasound to check her uterine lining. We even ordered the first round of injections that she would need and created a schedule for the embryo transfer. We left the doctors office that day happy, excited and holding hands. Again, one week later it all collapsed. Before I take the inevitable beating for doing this, in retrospect we moved too fast and I will freely admit that I got caught up in the extreme happiness of being back together again and the prospect of being a dad to a second little one. It wa exciting....intoxicating. And it ultimately clouded my judgement.
Interesting story relating to this. We were laying in bed one night and she brought up the discussion of the embryo and basically said that we have a limited window to use it (she's turning 40) and clearly expressed that she wanted to move forward with it. I used it as an opportunity to have a honest discussion about my feelings on the matter.
I essentially told her that my primary fear was that we would start this and she would leave again. Then I'd be left with two kids that I miss, more child support and no family. I told her that I did not want that. I think she viewed it as me saying "no" (which wasn't the case) and she became upset.....almost angry, but I remained cool about it. She spoke her piece on the matter and these words stick out to me.....a lot....."I wish that the day would could come, Crimson, when I would propose something and you would just say 'I trust you'".
We didn't talk about it for a few days after that. I really put a lot of thought into it and decided to move forward. One day before our next scheduled appointment with the doctor she left the house. Since that day, not a word has been said about the embryo.
Probably should have introduced this into the discussion here earlier, but I guess I was embarrassed that I "fell" for it. Shame on me.
At the same time, it really makes me all the more confused about her thoughts, behaviors and feelings.
I said something in a similar vain to my W when we briefly reconciled last October. She asked me to move to where she lives so we could be a family again. I told her that I was worried that she would leave again blah blah just like you did. She didn't react like your wife but the concerns were the same and she still pulled away.
I have been quite embarrassed about some things I have done or fell for in my sitch. It's hard but I find it helps to just let it out on here on try to move on.
It is very strange how she wanted you to just trust her, after she left you and divorced you.
It would make total sense for you to not trust her yet.
She's a WAS. You have been told many times that there is no point in trying to understand their behaviour. It will drive you crazy and stop your momentum.
M36 W31 S4 S2 T5 M4 BD Jan12 S July12 Recon Sep12-Nov12 ILBINILWY Jan13 OM x 2 in 2013 W wants R July 13 I start D. Jan 14. Meet GF Nov 13 Have I changed enough? Jul 14
Seriously, those questions will just eat you alive and you will NEVER get a satisfactory answer. We work on ourselves, we detach and GAL, we hold hope for saving our M's alive while preparing for life after M, and we set aside our need for answers. That's how we get through this 