Questions without answers...will the hurt stop?

[albamarie]

I’m not sure who wrote your quote, but about the 5 yrs. H went into a self-reflecting dep when the stock market hit in 2/08 as we had to stop the build on our new home. His anger grow over the yrs. and in 2011 he flipped his rage on to me, pretty much over night and had the A the next day. He met EA during this anger and has known her 2yrs now. So it’ been 2yrs w EA that have been DBing because I was determined to fight for my M, and not let a stupid EA determine my R with my H.

Before he flipped his anger was never against me, or the family, and he was making plans to stay in our present home and make it kick as$ in the face of the market fall. We refinanced instead, planned our new rooms and he started on the construction.

When he flipped, again seemingly overnight, his face changed, he looked like a completely different person, pierced lips, beady cold eyes, he threw lots of his stuff away, put on a bandana and was gone, mentally.

I didn’t do anything about the A, he came home and shaved his head in “shame” and kicked himself out. I know “now” that is part of the game. I thought he was leaving so I pleaded to work on us, and not let this tear us apart. He didn’t have another PA, but met EA and latched on to her crazy life for excitement.

I admit a lot of my writings last yr. was very much out of my own dep. I slipped out of my dep roughly around the holiday’s last yr. It was my mom and dad’s rejection of my handling my M, my kids, my life and turning their backs on me (again) that made me snap and become a fighter.

I found the strength in myself again, he noticed, he got closer to me.

I don’t see him vastly changing. His spiritual battle is the only thing he fights against these days, cursing God, and challenging Him. He isn’t blaming, or mean to me, and yea my youngest was D18 at the BD, nor is/was he mean in anyway to them. Funny, I noticed his flip when he kicked the dog! Now he spends everyday making it up to him.

Financially, “IF” he didn’t pay I would be devastated. My S26 is home working up the ladder as a Chef, (in Chicago you start really low and cheap), while paying loans. My S24 is paying loans, and still working as a waiter while looking for a full time job in his field that will pay more than the waiter job, S22 hasn’t even finished school yet, makes great union money working w H, and is becoming a father this Aug, D19 is starting college and works at the mall. All boys pay rent, rent that was at first picking up H’s slack while dep. and now that just helps. They pay 100 percent their own way, we are a very close family, they also cook and do the carpentry H dropped.

Could we all pitch in and get rid of him, not financially, they can’t put out anymore, nor is it up to them, they need to work on getting theirs one day. Me, am looking for
a new field, my license is useless in this economy. I’m in real estate and started my own Staging business, no one can afford to have their home staged these day, you can’t even get a loan.

My goal now is to be away from him. I told him I want him away from me for a long while. How? What does drop the rope completely look like?

Today he said if I want him out I will have to have the police escort him…he will not walk, because he won’t be the one to end it. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? He ended it a long time ago, not according to him though (cake eater). What does that mean I have to be the one to end us he would never end us. Control freak?!

Thank you, 25 for the time you put in to really talk to me, I will be rereading this later, hoping to find what I am doing to enable, what do I do that sounds like enabling, I may just be that nieve.

[albamarie]

Today I asked H to leave my home. He said do you think I would let you starve and loose the house, I said lets put it to the test, and I gave him his shoe's.

When he took his shoe's I looked him in the eye and said, do you still think all of this is still yours no matter what, do I look like I'm done w you, he said yes.

Now, back to his challenge, it will be me who has to break us up. I know it's a game, but how do I keep my stand? Asking him to leave isn't really breaking us up to me, it's living in peace for me!

[AJM]

DM, don't get hung up on what he means by that. He just means he isn't going to end it. Nothing more. Likely something about his beliefs around marriage and so forth, vs. anything else.

That's a long time to live with this, DM.

Why does the LBS have to break it up? I didn't have to break it up legally, although I did have to keep things moving along. I think in my case she wanted me to be the bad guy. <shrug>. But I am the one that has to handle the emotional break up part. Lead it. Why? I dunno. I stopped asking why a long time ago when it comes to such things. I know see what is, and I ask how I can make it better in support of my goals.


As for you. I know it may be a little scary, but it's fun and exciting too. I think you'll adapt quickly considering the emotional part of it is mostly done already. And living in peace is something you won't regret.

Is it a game? Maybe. But let him be the sole player and go find a new game.

AJ

[albamarie]

Thanks AJM!

It's a form of control that he wants over me! He wants to be able to always throw at me that I took it as far. All I had to do was be home, and live my life letting him circle the planet without grief. Like you said, it's been a long time!

I have been a saint, I'm not a saint!

But, I'm not gonna push, he's kinda catatonic for the last 6 hours!

[AJM]

He's likely catatonic because you, the other half of the R, did something he didn't plan on. He may have planned to go on the way he was going, and you upset the apple cart. That's a natural way for a R to work, if you ask me. There are two people there.

No, you likely weren't a saint. But that doesn't mean he can treat you like that. And whether or not it's about controlling you or control in general, you took it as controlling you. You're likely right in how you feel, but there may be a bigger picture for him to deal with.

He needs to deal with it. And he can't expect you to continue accepting it forever. That's not realistic. You're not a pet, you're the other half of the R.

That said, you don't need to give him grief. It's not about that for you, from what I've read. It's about being treated as a partner in a R. You should not act out of anger. I never suggest that. But rather act out of best interests and what works for you or does not work for you. If he is willing to come together to work out a compromise you can both live with, then so much the better. If not, then he has a choice to make. Simple as that, and no anger or grief required.

Peace,
AJ

[albamarie]

Wow AJM, you got that right! I truly did upset something!

The universe, she is putting something out there that H cannot deal w. Turns out yesterday before our little confrontation ( which was caused by this originally) H was lying about why he was late, which I knew as he was talking on the phone.

He comes in looking at me saying, you don't believe me that i was late because of the flood, do you? Then he admits to giving EA money for the last few weeks and trying to help full force for nothing. Complaining how I'm right and she's too much, and not changeable. To which I said you must leave this house.

You gave her money, regardless of the fact that it's from your little side job, it is a complete insult and disrespect to me and I'm done w you. After a long talk I said you will be leaving this family, your position here is not cemented as you continue to believe.

He then says block her, block her calls to me and I'm done w her. It's easier to come home, be right, I know this. I said its not so easy to snap and it's done, you will be leaving or I will.

Turns out he went to EAs before getting on the highway home and found her there w her BF who finally got out of jail. H was pissed because he says he spent the time BF was gone to "fix" her and she jumped right back.

He left her a note saying we are not friends any more, you have your BF back, don't call me anymore. Then he calls me to say, oh I'm gonna be late because of rain, blah blah, but I heard through the lie.

So the whole block her has nothing to do w trying to come home, and dump her for a normal life, he's just got his underwear in a bundle over his disappointment in her. Then at the same time he comes home to me, I'm not buying it and I put him further into a tailspin of spoiled plans.

Not a good day for H! He even went as far, before I found the truth out about the morning to say I will quite my job on the N side if that makes you feel better! Ha! I asked him to quite 7 yrs ago, now he wants to because EA turned out to be who she always was, the fantasy is over, poor poor H!

We're on our second day of H sleeping on the floor and eating bologna sandwiches, and smoking on the porch. He didn't go to the N side job last night, nor did he call in. He said I have nowhere to go, I didn't push. If he quits his job to get away from her I don't know what I will do? It may not be the act of sacrifice he thinks it will be!

[RosaLinda]

Dawn Marie, I can understand why you feel hurt, used and angry, but isn't this what you have been hoping and praying for -- that your H's eyes would finally be opened to the Alkie Whore's true character, and the fact that she has been using him? Well I'm behind you what ever you decide Dawn. Only you can know how much you can bear.

[25yearsmlc]

For the 5 year period of trouble

I looked at your signature block that said "brief MLC", 2008, and then the affair, and the other stuff that happened.

You seem to minimize his issues when WE mention them as long standing problems

but you post here, mostly about HIM, not you or your GAL.

That's why I suggested you read "Co Dependent No More", b/c YOU are all you control. Why spend any energy on assessing and diagnosing him?

IMO your focus should either be on creating a new happy life without him,

or a new happy life around him, but with zero expectations of him, ever...

Life is short. You have had 5 years of erratic behavior from him. I see no signs of real improvement or CHANGE going on, so that was my take on it.

Some folks come here, and I am NOT saying you are one of them but I caution to consider not becoming one...

and they post and vent about their spouses...a lot....and the venting in SOME cases only solidifies how victimized they view themselves as being.

They are here for years. They do NOT GAL, they do NOT do many 180s and they stop them if no immediate result or "fix" doesn't occur.

They don't grow or change much. They are stuck. Some of them seem most comfortable with it. They choose to be stuck.

And it IS a choice. I made that choice for a year of my life. I won't do that again.

No more wondering what label or diagnosis for my h, or asking, endlessly, "WHY????"

b/c it simply does NOT matter. What mattered was ME GAL for me and for my kids.

A life without h, but with us being happy.

It's a paradox you see. The minute WE truly detach and begin to accept and even embrace the new found freedom that being sep can bring,

that dropping the rope relieves, is often the trigger for the WAS to change.

but we cannot drop the rope BECAUSE we want them back.

We must move forward in our lives FOR US and our children so we are modelling what healthy dignified women do when we get a blow to our hearts.

If that awakens something in the WAS, then cross that bridge when you get to it. When my h awakened, it took him a year to get me back on board

AND we went to Retrovaille and a personal growth workshop we'd been to years earlier, to get back on track AND get new tools.

Your h refuse to get tools for a better marriage.

You can get some tools for YOU to GAL and become independent of him.

Or you can stay stuck.

I'm sorry, but I just don't see that much different in your approach from a year ago to now. A few comments are different.

Can you name two specific behaviors you do differently from a year ago when you first came here?

Can you name one GAL activity you do with new people who don't know your situation?

I GAL in the interior of Alaska, in the winter too, and had an infant and two older kids. It's not easy to overcome inertia and the logistical hassles.

But i sure did. And it paid off...we hammer GAL here a lot b/c we know it works.

[nero]

hey dawn - hiya

wow- 25 yrs describes me also - "stuck" would describe it all - wouldn't it?.

BUT as usual, i also find my mind saying - each person's "journey" - idk- it's true & it applies - but it's you and it's me and it's her - allll different people - different "players" - different sitch, different places, etc.

it's soooooo easy to "see" from the outside (i can see me from the outside and judge 0 ) - BUT - does that mean not being there yet is WRONG? - they're nuts (h's) and we are too- different sorts of nuts - and if they stop their "addiction" because they want to- and if we stop our addiction (to them) because we want to and are READY. LIKE ROCK BOTTOM of an alcoholic - you're dead or you change it (of your own volition).

i've heard the bit a million times about leaving them making them "wake up" to what they're losing. i'm sure it's a wonderful ploy and great jolt - AND TRUE TOO - really (maybe)

that dropping the rope relieves, is often the trigger for the WAS to change.

but we cannot drop the rope BECAUSE we want them back.

so, as she says, wtf????? soooo I visit more & get out alot more - have friends & a life separate from him when he's gone- i go to work & liked it - it's stalled for summer cause school closed- it's not a job that would support me & the house really) - it's a beginning & feels good and sends some kind of message - but essentially- what the heck does it matter? UNLESS I WALK OUT- it's the really only thing that sends the message - the big message - THE MESSAGE

SO IF I'M NOT SELF sufficient (yet) - and i know it- and i'm not quite "ready" for it - and know it- (and selfish enough to not want to suffer too badly ($$ & lonely) and maybe you're just on your own journey and your compassion for this guy & the strings it produces that still tie you - idk-

i'm enabling also & know it. (you, me - h - i wait for this and wait for that-

i guess i'm wondering out loud to you- soooo- say we agree, say it is a very good strategy - say you or I just chuck it all because someone here n this forum says it - and it is good advice - say that...

it's still , then, us "trying a new ploy" . I AGREE with her that it may just be the thing that makes the sitch move somewhere- BUT - at the same time YOU GOTTA WANNA AND YOU HAVE TO BE DETACHED ENOUGH TO NOT CARE ABOUT THE RESULT- AND if you're not there enough to just do it- then that is the answer, isn't it?

enabling or not- we're sitting around being who we are- doing what we're doing- and i just do not care if i'm wrong or right- smart or dumb - having a plan b ornot- just tired & do not care and perfectly willing to deal with the giant "s" tornado that may decend upon me as a result ( (or not) - and so, just plugging forward at my own lazy pace-

enabling him - yeah. enabling me - yeah - enabling you - yeah (probably alot of other people that would find it convenient to blame me for what they are, are doing, etc.)

i'm thinking "enable" is another trendy notion that is over-used. this business of being a human being (merely) is really inefficient - isn't it???

this girl says be dawn- no apologies. you're probably doing what you gotta do- being what you gotta be- on your own timeline-

input is inspiring - inspecting ourselves and our motives is good thing- within reason i'm not sure any of us want to be shooting our own selves in the foot here- we're "tryin to do our best" job of it- as with most things.

i share your horror over the ow sitch- the insult- the disrespect- on the other hand- this h has done more good things for me- been more good to me- been nicer tome than anyone in the world - for longer. i hate him alot of the time- i owe him something alot of the time - - and that is/was "something" i'm not sure what. maybe what inspires my "loyalty" if that's what it is- my willingness to give him space til i'm about ready to drop. i won't die for him- but i'll (probably- sadly or not) "try standing" til i'm about ready to - (maybe or probably) ???


i hope you're not too churned up and still carrying on okay-

you will be the girl dealing with all the fallout & outcome of your actions and decisions. good or bad - a crap shoot at best - as is all of life maybe -

the pollyanna in me says it's never wrong to err on the side of kindness - no such thing as "too" kind.

this morning- who i am- love me or leave me...

[RosaLinda]

"Did I do wrong by standing up for myself, telling him sending his side work checks to EA's was the last straw for me, I'm standing for me now. That's what I have been doing for myself all this time, trying to find me again"

oh Dawn I'm sorry. I didn't know your H was sending his side work checks to the Alkie. And in despair because he found her boyfriend back over there with her. That's just wrong. I thought he had just woken up to her character and decided to break ties with her. sorry I should have read your post more carefully.

I'm glad you found the strength to be the one who lets him go with love. You are NOT wrong. Sometimes we get need to step off the MLC gerbil wheel and let our head stop spinning. This is what's right for you to do now, for your family and for yourself. Hang in there my poor Dawn. Are your kids home now? What do they think?