Wild Horses (couldn't drag me away)

[uRworthy]

Oh FY, I am so sorry. I know it was hurtful to hear those things.

There really isnt anything else you can do right now. She needs to figure out that she needs serious help.

I agree with T, I think it is easier to blame you than to face what happened with her brother.

I hope there was some fun on the trip.

Hang in there.

(((hugs)))

[RosaLinda]

Oh FY, I'm so sorry. You had such hopes for this trip. But please don't give up hope. She's still re-writing -- you KNOW you two had that spark prior to this, don't let that hurt you. Your W will wake up one day. And when she does, she will be gratified and amazed by your unconditional love and steadfastness. And the spark will return! Many sparks! Hang in there my friend. 

[ForeverYoung]

Thanks ladies.

I know it must hurt you when your W says there is no spark with you. But I can't help but wonder - perhaps she is so emotionally numb deep inside, that she isn't capable of feeling that way about anybody right now.

As noted earlier, W's childhood left her not being comfortable with, or in love with herself. She's always had high social anxiety. Maybe she was never able to truly love anybody else... not deserving enough for that.

There really isnt anything else you can do right now.

I know.

She's still re-writing -- you KNOW you two had that spark prior to this, don't let that hurt you. Your W will wake up one day. And when she does, she will be gratified and amazed by your unconditional love and steadfastness. And the spark will return!

Actually, she's making a pretty good case that she's never had that spark... it has me wondering if she's not correct. I've even considered seeing a D lawyer. Nonetheless, I'm still standing for now, because I know it's possible to have a better M in the end, and I have a difficult time bailing on her.

[ForeverYoung]

Saturday night after dinner, I suggested we go to the beach. There was a bright super moon out that night. We were alone. She started to open up and tell me how she feels inside, all the pain she's been going through. It sounds quite painful.

She tells me "there's a hole right here", as she puts her fist to her chest. "There's something out there for me, but I don't know what it is." "I've been afraid to live life, I've wasted 30 years."

My thought: I know it's a deep search for meaning and purpose. All I can do is let her go.

She tells me about the time she kissed one of my friends at a New Years Eve party shortly after we met. Says fireworks went off and she's now yearning for that feeling again. Says how she missed out on the dating scene, never dumped or been dumped! (she was 16 when she met 18 year old me)

"People tell me I'm confused, or it's MLC, they think there's something wrong with me. But they don't know the truth of what I'm going through because I haven't told anyone about the incident. Why would I? To make you look bad? I see no point in doing that. Besides, I don't think I could even vocalize it. The only thing they know is I'm not happy with you. They've try'd to pry it out of me, but I wouldn't tell them."

"I've tried staying busy but you can only work so hard, go out so often, and drink so much. (!) Something's missing and I don't know what it is."

"I just hope that we can still be close friends." (after D) I told her I don't know if I can do that. She snipes "well it's nice to know you're not willing to be my friend". I said no, let me explain. I will always be friendly, but will find it difficult to be best friends with my W after she demotes me from H. I go on and tell her I really don't think either of us can say how things would play out, or how we would feel if we were to break up.

Considering how tense things have been between us, and how long we've avoided any talks of our relationship, it was an amazing evening. She really opened up and bared her soul. I impressed myself with my ability to validate, really listen, and not offer solutions. I was able to keep her talking and I know it was a great relief for her... and me.

Most of her words were clear that she was done, and that after a year and a half of reflection she doesn't see any hope of feeling anything more than friendship for me. Certainly would never want to ML with me again. But there was also a bit of confusion.

At one point she said she knew she was broken, later that I made her feel broken, and lastly that she was no longer broken.

Near the end she says "What am I going to do? What are we going to do?" Starts to cry. I put my hand on her shoulder and she immediately snaps at me to not touch her.

When she stops crying she asks to hear how I feel...

I tell her again how much I regret the pain I have caused her, the one I love most in the world. How I wish I could go back and change things, but can only move forward from here, and be the best person I can be. I make it clear that I understand she has to do what she feels is best for her, and that I will not stand in her way no matter what she chooses. I also tell her I absolutely do not want a D. I want more than anything to live the rest of my life with her, the love of my life.

She then asks, "So you're ok with never having sex again?"

I said no, but I also know that won't last forever. I'm willing to continue giving you the time and space you need right now to work things out, and I'm confident that you will.

In the end there were no hugs, but I know we both felt a lot better, just getting it all out. You can't avoid relationship talks forever.

[RosaLinda]

oh Lord FY. You handled this so well. How the heck did you stay so calm and so validating? I am SO impressed by your maturity and how much you have grown. I'm glad you feel a little better having gotten it all out into the daylight.

My H says he has been searching for those fireworks forever also. In his case, it was his GF's stepmother seducing him when he was 15. He said no other sexual experience could ever compare to the excitement of that experience, and that he has been searching for "romance" and a "soul mate" ever since. And that he has never felt romantically towards me and has never loved me.

But I don't believe him FY. He is lying for some mysterious mixed up MLC reason. And I think your W is lying for some equally mixed up MLC reason.

Didn't you and your W EVER have fireworks between you? I cannot believe that you have been married for almost 30 years, and she NEVER felt that spark. Why the heck did she stay with you then? For 30 years!!! Why didn't she hook up with your friend? Maybe I'm blind or stupid or something worse, but I still think she is re-writing everything. You sound like your emotions are such a mixture of beaten down and accepting. Don't accept it. It's all crap.

Did she actually use the word D?

[ForeverYoung]

oh Lord FY. You handled this so well. How the heck did you stay so calm and so validating?

Easy. It's the only thing that works, or at least doesn't make things worse. It also helps if we accept the fact that they may be gone forever, and that we'll be ok. Show strength and confidence.

In the past, I tended to get into (reasoned) convincing role during R talks. Trying to "sell" myself. That doesn't work. Our spouses have to figure out on their own that we are the best option for them. We demonstrate this with actions, not words.

My H says he has been searching for those fireworks forever also.

My W is not actively in an A or searching for a new partner, just feels there must be something more for her in life. This meaning and purpose she seeks doesn't necessarily have to be another person, I'm sure.

But, I think it is very important that she knows she can leave the M at any time. No pressure to stay means it is HER choice if she does stay, which is the only way I want her as W. I have told her this.

Didn't you and your W EVER have fireworks between you?

Yes, for the first 2-3 years, during the limerance period of a new relationship. The real love feelings that develop later are not comparable to the initial fireworks of new lust. Fireworks are what those in A's are seeking. Then, after a few months or years in a new relationship, they'll end up back to where they started, searching for those "special" (haha) fireworks again.

Did she actually use the word D?

No, but that's what we were talking about.

[reachingHigher]

Hi FY,

I'm so very sorry the trip wasn't the special anniversary trip you deserved as a faithful, loving, devoted H. But I'm glad that your W was able to open up some about her feelings.

So very much pain is in her heart.

You know, I'm a believer in "anything can happen".

My H told me last year that as we were preparing to renew vows for our 10th anniversary (2008). he was feeling like he didn't want to go through with it.

And last June we had "the R talk" where he said he was never coming back. I was okay with it, during the talk, understanding and all that. It was after that talk I really started to feel like crap.

I wish I could make it better for you :-/

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

My H started a habit when the kids were little where I felt my personal space very violated even though we were M.

I was angry and resentful for years and this happened to coincide with his MLC. Although I'm sure his sister dying had more to do with it.

It wasn't until I realized how unhappy he was in the M, that my anger about this issue melted.

I'm not suggesting any course of action for you. And I had no SA background. I'm just saying I understand anger about some personal violation, but for me, perhaps my H and I were needing an overhaul on communication anyway and anger pops up where it will.

~ ~ ~ ~

Our spouses have to figure out on their own that we are the best option for them. We demonstrate this with actions, not words. So wisely said.

It seems like she is okay with life with you but terrified of any touch from you.

My H also was/is the same about talking to anyone else. Whenever I say things like, "people don't do such-and-such" he reminds me that other people don't run his life. Well, that's only words of course, since our spouse's friends seem to have a powerful influence. It's just OUR POV or people that support it they don't want to hear, I think.

I'm shocked my H asked for MC. Really shocked. And he is okay mostly with it. Although sometimes I think he goes in with the attitude: "she's broken. Please fix her.". But it is getting some of the hard issues, some of the past ingrained patterns out in the open.

FY, you're doing terrific in a painful sitch. I think just keeping faithful is all you can do if you are still desirous of standing. There will be some more issues coming up soon, I think.

And I know what you mean when our spouses talk about D without saying the words. Like they think about it all the time and it just spills out of their mouths and you are s'posed to be up-to-date on how they are feeling. So confusing.

I'm wishing you the best,
Every day,
rH

[lionhrt]

Hi FY,

Good job on a very difficult conversation. I can't make comment having not had any conversations like that with my W or been in that position....but at least things are coming out.

I agree with RH that more issues will be coming up soon. As long as you handle it in this manner there is nothing else you can do.

All the best mate

[ForeverYoung]

Just a few tidbits for the record.

On our anniversary trip to Cancun W spent a lot of time on facebook and emails. It was somewhat annoying at first, but then she started to let me in on the postings, both outgoing and incoming. She would tell me who posted what, and showed me a few pics. She even used lines I suggested for one of her posts! (because they were funny)

Many of her outgoing posts were her telling others where she was and what she was doing.

The gift: Our actual anniversary was Monday, which was also the morning we were heading back home. So, I left the card and gift out for her to find in the room Monday morning. Last year I had the waitress bring my gift out at our meal, and she did not like the public attention. I was glad that it worked out that we had our R talk before she got the gift, the timing just seemed better.

When she seen the card and small gift wrapped box on the table she said "I told you not to get me anything" and I replied "Yes you did... a day after I bought it."

As she started to open it she said "well, you got a trip".

The card had a flower and butterfly on the front, and my hand written message inside: Thanks for 30 years of memories, and for standing by my side. <3 FY, 2013.

When she unwrapped the pearl Pandora bracelet charm, she very quietly and slowly said "It's pretty, thank you" and then added "I don't have the bracelet here" (to put the charm on)

I'd say the gift was well received.

When we were waiting for our flight at the Cancun airport, I suggested we have lunch at Bubba Gumps. They were showing the movie Forrest Gump on the monitors. After more than 3 years of running, Forrest finally stops. The reporters who were following him anxiously awaited his words...

"I'm tired. I think I'll go home now."

The headlines the next day said "Forest Stops Running, Goes Home"

My wife looked at me and said "I'm not ready to come home, I need to keep running".

[ForeverYoung]

I still think she is re-writing everything.

Yes Linda, there is a bunch of rewriting going on. One doesn't stay in a M for 28 years with few to no complaints and then suddenly decide it was all wrong. The thing is, this rewritten history is reality for our spouses. We have to work from there.

It seems like she is okay with life with you but terrified of any touch from you.

She still accepts hair brushing/head massage, but I only do it once or twice a month.

There will be some more issues coming up soon, I think.

Like what? She pretty much said I all, I thought.