Crimson.....Are we broken or just bent?

[Spartan]

I can vouch for this as well.

I'm no where close to the point of pursuing anything but I get SO much more attention at church when it's just me and kids.



Crimson - I feel your pain buddy and I only read your thread when my head is in a good spot (too real sometimes...). I'm taking the advice your getting to my own sitch. Stay strong, you will get through this

[Tryin2figuritout]

Crimson,

Sorry about where you are and feeling your pain. You're the only one who can take those steps forward to better yourself and GAL. So many days its hard to take those steps but if you don't you crawl under a rock of guilt, saddness, etc. and next thing you know you've got an avalanche to crawl out from. Take the steps while the rocks are small.....

Had a near similar weekend as the one you described with my Mrs and it was my birthday, so I guess Happy Birthday to me????? Had a bit of a lull yesterday and realized I need to let go and focus on me.

Hope you have a good day.

Trying

[Crimson]

"her feelings are NOT gone...They are covered up. Layers of fear and validation by other people who think starting over is somehow easier, has disguised her true feelings.

And even if she does not care for you at all, at this moment, that can and will change.

Time will reveal her real emotions and time will allow the good memories to resurface. Then we'll see how she goes about her life."

25, This ^^^^^ is one of those things where I just have to put blind trust in the fact that you know what you're talking about because I don't feel that she does right now. From my lens, it feels like she she has nothing for me at all. I'll be the first to admit that I am mired in the negative right now so my ability to see any positives in my XW or sitch right now is almost nil.

As far as GAL goes, I'll try to figure something out. I'm still fighting off "depressions paralysis and social withdraw" so it requires me to dig deep....very deep....to get going. It's also hot as hell here in PHX so that will drain the motivation right out of you.

Getting hit on at church. That is a phenomenon that I am not familiar with at all. Frankly, I am going back and forth on my overall ability to pick up and put myself out there to start dating again. I think that what has held me back so far is the belief that somehow my R would fall back into place sooner or later and it wasn't fair to bait someone in if I was not fully available emotionally. Oddly enough, I still don't know if that is the case. Not sure what to do there at all.

Thankfully I got my S back last night. The exchange went fine. I gathered up some more of her leftover belongings and gave them to her. That was a little hard. S came in the house and quickly said he wanted mama. That hurt my heart and made me a little angry at my XW all at the same time. I know it's not very DB-like, but in my rawest emotional form sometimes I just get very angry at XW for putting all of us, especially S, through this pain. I got over my anger and enjoyed my time with my S. I broke the rules again and let him sleep in my bed - at this point I know it makes him happy and with all the back and forth he is experiencing sometimes I feel like he needs some more closeness and reassurance from me. We play this game right before we fall asleep where I say "I love S more than......" And then I'll come up with something. The he says "I love daddy more than..,,,,," and so on until we are both too tired. Usually his answers have the word "poop" or "pee" in them. Yep - he's 3. Yep - he's a boy. Yep - he's into potty humor like his dad. Love him.

I had to drop him back off this morning at her condo. I spent the drive over rehearsing the moment in my head acting "as if" it would be a pleasant, positive interaction. It actually turned out alright. And I tried to stay as positive and complimentary as I had been when she was living at the house. She had to go to work this morning so I politely told her that she looked pretty. She asked about how my new job was going, I gave my beautiful boy a hug and a kiss goodbye and I was on my way. Maybe I'm crazy, by the way, but I could have sworn XW gave me an extra look as I was leaving. Maybe it was in my head.

So after the melee (of sorts) yesterday here is what I am trying to figure out. I KNOW that I am not going to be reaching out much. I KNOW that my pursuing-like activities will evaporate to zero. But what I DON'T know is how to act face to face. Old me was never very flattering to XW - it as a major flaw and I see that clearly now. So is it over the line to tell her that she looks pretty this morning? Part of me believes that if I revert back it will be seen as my making that change was a sham or solely conditional upon her acceptance of me. Which at this point I can clearly and confidently state is not the case. I partially believe I need to remain consistent in that regard to keep my changes going. Not to win her back, but to let her see that 1.) it wasn't a sham and 2.) this is who I am now. I guess part of me also wants to be a living example that you can fight one day and be "loving" the next. There are days where I sincerely believe that not having that modeled for her in the home she grew in caused problems in our R. Hence, as "discussion" to me is an "argument" to her. I dunno.....just thinking out loud.

Crimson

[sandi2]

And even if she does not care for you at all, at this moment, that can and will change.

I think that what has held me back so far is the belief that somehow my R would fall back into place sooner or later and it wasn't fair to bait someone in if I was not fully available emotionally. Oddly enough, I still don't know if that is the case. Not sure what to do there at all.

Don't intentionally bait.....just enjoy getting out. But if you do decide to go fishing, I think you will see what 25 predicted come out pretty fast. "Well it sure didn't take him long to get on the dating scene!" Oh yes, expect it to make her.....shall we say...unfriendly. Even though, she has no right to be angry (b/c she's offered you up on a silver platter to single women everywhere), she will not like it when it actually happens.

Try to remember, it's just another step in her waking up. To begin seeing her XH as being available to other women out there.....and he looks good, too. What was she thinking? So then she'll try to turn on a little feminine charm to see if it still affects you. But, I know all of this is too early for you to digest. I simply wanted to warn you.

And if by some slim chance this doesn't happen, then she really doesn't care. But I think she will. Even when a woman doesn't want a man for herself, that doesn't mean she wants another one to have him. Oh, she may tell you she wants you to be happy, yada, yada.....but she didn't MEAN you could go get somebody else. See? You can't use logic to figure her out. You are just using up all your energy for nothing.

Next step....fill up your calendar with activities (not necessarily dating) with friends & neighbors, shows, community activities or projects, etc. Give yourself some healing time being around folks who appreciate you being who you are. Your ego has taken quite a kick in the teeth, so be around others who will be good for you.

Let me ask you......can you do this without knowing for certain about you and XW? Do you have to know the end of the story right now? Are you able to lay it down for a while and let it rest while you try to partake of the other good things in life?

Even if she would eventually turn around, it might take time apart (I mean really, like D people usually do) so that she has her own experiences in growing. Most people say that if they only knew they would end up together, then they could stand the process....for whatever that might be. Wish it could be that simple for you.

[jp787]

Most people say that if they only knew they would end up together, then they could stand the process....for whatever that might be.

Wouldn't that be replacing fear with reassurance?

I know that isn't reality, just saying.

[AnotherStander]

25, This ^^^^^ is one of those things where I just have to put blind trust in the fact that you know what you're talking about because I don't feel that she does right now.

My W was dead towards me, then suddenly started showing interest again and signed us up for RetroV saying she was ready to try. During RetroV, W and I talked a lot about her feelings. She basically told me that the entire time we had been separated, despite putting on a happy, content facade she was crying nearly every day in private because she felt so lost and confused. She was actually jealous of me because to her it seemed like I had adapted so well and was so happy and content while she was still lost and afraid. During our time apart she fantasized about getting back together and she had painted a very specific picture of what that would be like. Things like eating dinner together, praying before dinner, etc. Shortly after RetroV she decided again that she didn't want to try and reverted right back to her pre-RetroV attitude and we've been there ever since.

I'm sharing this with you to help you understand that you likely have no idea what your W is really thinking/ feeling. You're seeing a little chunk of ice floating on the water not realizing there's an acre of iceberg under the waterline. Your perception of her is based on what you see, and what you see is a seemingly calm and confident decision to end things. But her reality is that huge world you can't see. And in her world there are crazy storms and twisters and hurricanes and tornados. Nothing is sure, nothing is solid, nothing is reliable. That's why you have to detach, some day those storms will abate, but until then you just can't depend on anything she says or does.

[Crimson]

AS,

What you described as what she was picturing in her head was pretty much what I'd been living the last three months.

Furthermore, she shared that her time away was also difficult. Not a lot of friends, trying to keep S entertained, enduring the scorn of her neighbors because S would cry late at night and early in the morning, boredom, missing S when he was gone. It was not a pretty picture, and I sympathized because I was living an essentially similar life. SHE was the one that wanted to propose coming back.

So what I don't fully grasp is now or why she would want to go back to the way she was living before coming back if it really was that awful for her. She spoke of how her life seemed so "unsettled" and "temporary" at her condo. She flag out said to me "You need to propose something or move on". That is what lead to her moving back.

So I am left to ponder why she would willfully return to "Shawshank"? Is the prospect of being with me and S full time less attractive than the misery she described at her place by herself? Because if what I provide is worse than what she described, life with me (through her eyes) must be pretty bad.

Sandi -

If I knew we would end up together at the end of this process I assure you I would breeze through this process and just enjoy the time I had in front of me. I'd enjoy my time with my son and just ride out this storm. What does that say about me?

Additionally, if I were to date and she were to know about it I'm. Not sure how she would feel about it. During our "rift" yesterday I said that I would have a hard time with her dating (maybe too honest on my part) and she said "I just want you to be happy". As noted, that seems like the kiss of death. Either way, I think nowadays I would just enjoy the company.

I have a question.

How do I handle our remaining embryo now? Do I just avoid the topic for the moment? We are still paying to have it stored. I don't want to destroy or donate it, but we can't go on storing it forever. If I tell my XW that we need to make a decision about it (especially right now) she's likely to believe I'm trying to use it as "leverage" to get her to come back because I know that she does NOT want to destroy or donate it either. I k ow she wants to use it......well, at least she used to up until two weeks ago. Who knows what to think now. Part of me feels that for the moment thins is a topic to not touch with a 10 foot pole. At the same time, if I am truly set to move on, it feel like I need to address it.....even though I really do not want to.

Crimson

[specialk]

Hi Crimson!

I've been following your situation for quite some time, but I'm a newbie on the boards so I'm afraid I don't have any words of wisdom (yet). But I did want to say that I am rooting for you and that I always come to your thread to help me stay on course with my DB efforts.

[25yearsmlc]

AS,

What you described as what she was picturing in her head was pretty much what I'd been living the last three months.

Furthermore, she shared that her time away was also difficult. Not a lot of friends, trying to keep S entertained, enduring the scorn of her neighbors because S would cry late at night and early in the morning, boredom, missing S when he was gone. It was not a pretty picture, and I sympathized because I was living an essentially similar life. SHE was the one that wanted to propose coming back.

So what I don't fully grasp is now or why she would want to go back to the way she was living before coming back if it really was that awful for her. She spoke of how her life seemed so "unsettled" and "temporary" at her condo. She flag out said to me "You need to propose something or move on". That is what lead to her moving back.

That is confusing, to say the least. Man she is definitely not in tune with her plans and there is major cognitive dissonance inside her.

So I am left to ponder why she would willfully return to "Shawshank"? Is the prospect of being with me and S full time less attractive than the misery she described at her place by herself? Because if what I provide is worse than what she described, life with me (through her eyes) must be pretty bad.

1) I don't believe it was, objectively speaking, bad at all.

2) IF SHE does believe it was that bad, then she ought to be living away from you.

3) IF she goes from mood to fleeting mood then only time alone, again, will remind her of what she could have had. Needless to say, if she says she wants to move back in,

I'd balk and delay and set up some things for her so you could know she'd be willing to swim across the lake.

Thing is NO R can just resume...without snaffus and rough spots, which she sees as the kiss of death.

Who wants to relate to that? Living with the sword of Damacles over your head forever...

Sandi -

If I knew we would end up together at the end of this process I assure you I would breeze through this process and just enjoy the time I had in front of me. I'd enjoy my time with my son and just ride out this storm. What does that say about me?

Says you miss the part about you GAL and growing. Or is that what you meant by "breezing through this process"? IMO, You need to GAL way more than you realize.


Additionally, if I were to date and she were to know about it I'm. Not sure how she would feel about it.


Well gee, how is she feeling about your reconciliation so far? Oh wait, she ended it...so what do you really have to lose, with her?...


During our "rift" yesterday I said that I would have a hard time with her dating (maybe too honest on my part) and she said "I just want you to be happy". As noted, that seems like the kiss of death. Either way, I think nowadays I would just enjoy the company.


Uh yeah, no need to say more but we get why. Two weeks ago you thought you were reconciling...now you are back to where you were a year ago, OR so it seems.

No more about your feelings for her, okay? She knows...she gets it...she's not there.

I have a question.

How do I handle our remaining embryo now? Do I just avoid the topic for the moment?

YES YOU AVOID IT TOTALLY...for now and the foreseeable future. I don't believe the money is really an issue for you.

Say nothing of it. There is no "winning" on this issue, if you bring it up.

Assume she's given up on it.

The only other possibility is if she can elect to use it without your consent. Can she?


We are still paying to have it stored. I don't want to destroy or donate it,

just curious, is there a market for donating it? Interesting...could you, in theory, hire a surrogate?

I only ask for max information. Never thought of it before. Not suggesting it, but find it intriguing.

Maybe it's the lawyer in me thinking outside the box...oh well.


but we can't go on storing it forever. If I tell my XW that we need to make a decision about it (especially right now) she's likely to believe I'm trying to use it as "leverage" to get her to come back because I know that she does NOT want to destroy or donate it either. I k ow she wants to use it......well, at least she used to up until two weeks ago. Who knows what to think now. Part of me feels that for the moment thins is a topic to not touch with a 10 foot pole.

Go with that belief. I cannot imagine a scenario in which you raise the topic and it's not used against you. Period.

At the same time, if I am truly set to move on, it feel like I need to address it.....even though I really do not want to.

Crimson

IF and when you are in a R with a new woman, and you think it's serious, then you address the embryo with your xw.

TIl then, OR when you develop certainty about moving on = say nothing.

I believe you are not near ready to say that you're ready to move on IN THE WAY that this would signal.

B/C this embryo destruction would be the end of her hopes for another child, she'd blame you forever.

But if there comes a time when that won't bother you too much, or is outweighed by OWs concerns, so be it.

[25yearsmlc]

if she brings it up and acts as if it's all up to you

you say you assumed it was "over" since you two are over.

Why would you assume otherwise? (NOT Based on how she behaves or what she says...)

No she does "get to have a baby" without a life partner if that man is YOU.

You're not that type of guy.

OR, are you? I'm serious. Think outside the box.

You love your son. You'd love the next child too. Two is fun and they would have each other for life.

Not to be morbid but I have now known 4 women to lose children. Two lost daughters and two lost sons.

Last week, my d24's bff and college roomate was killed in a freak accident. Not her fault. She did nothing wrong or careless, no alcohol, no speeding, etc. Someone else was careless and now she's GONE! Ejected from a car and the earth. She has a little sister, 17.

I know for a fact that the only reason her mom gets out of bed every day, is to check on her other d.
I concede openly that a PART of why we had another child was the "heir and a spare" theory. We have three but the 2nd one was planned...

Can't put all your eggs in one basket. You get so in love with that child, so many hopes attach to them, that if something happens, you fear the worst for you. It's like a survival instinct...make sense?

Any chance you'd be open to that? Of course you have spoken of how it would mean two CS payments and being torn apart again. But would it be so much harder to leave two children with your xw, than just one? They'd have each other. The demands are greater but they entertain themselves even with a 3 y/difference. Our first two are 3 years apart and played together from the time the d was 3 and s was 5 or 6. And though there is a 12 y diff between our oldest, son and our youngest d, they are close.

They play and talk together a lot.

CRIMSON I am not suggesting this...

Just give it a few minutes thought before rejecting it so you KNOW you have considered all options.

Then if you decide you know you do not want to use the embryo, say nothing for now.

Really. I cannot see an upside to you bringing it up unless you are willing to have a second child with her without strings attached. Not all men would say no to that.

You don't have to. (I admit I kind of feel sorry for that little embryo, what a scrapper). But don't be the one to bring it up. I really think that's a bad idea.