PON, Each MLCer's crisis is different, and yet they have similar traits, lingo, etc. Your w felt pressure about the vacation and she doesn't want to give you the wrong idea about reconciling right now.
As for stating that you are separated again, it sounds like she's making these statements to make you back off. Many mlcers will threaten separation and/or divorce to get the spouse to leave them alone. It's very typical.
I like the excuse she used for staying married. She really has no real reason for divorcing you, but in her mind, she's trying to do the right thing because she thinks you won't be able to handle a divorce.
My advice is to back off, give her plenty, and I mean, plenty of space and go on w/your plans w/your children. If she opts to join in, fine, if not, that is fine too. It's her loss if she doesn't participate. The more you push and she can really sense that you're not letting go, the more she's going to pull away.
Let go, Let God. I agree w/your sponsor, i.e., leave it in God's hands and keep the focus on you.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Snodderly I admit when I'm wrong. I think just talks of going to vaca house this summer and acting like there were no issues might have put pressure on her or made her feel I didn't let go at all. Acting like one big happy family and talking future talks got to her.
I'm getting close to calling her on the D word. There gets to be a point where that card gets tiring. I'm talking 2 years of saying D with no action. T2 not sure if your W played the D card so much.
Maybe subconsciously I was pursuiting her. All I can say last night I told her if she wanted to go file she could. I would not stand in her way. If she thinks D would bring her happiness then all I want is for her to be happy.
She said "ok I just didn't want to spring it on you or surprise you". I said ok thanks.
Yes she said "I'm afraid on how you will act" you are not easy to talk with and I don't want to go through the L's for everything. That our first mediator said he wouldn't take our case because of your attitude. BTW I told the mediator I wanted kids 50% split and holidays and W didn't like that and mediator said it wasn't realistic. So that made me a bad guy and yes at the time I didn't want to be in that office.
i dont know tons about your sitch but wanted to chime in with some thoughts on managing the anxiety... things that helped me.
but most importantly, PON... since we are just hearing snippets of your experience, please find an IC if you haven't already... someone who has worked extensively with anxiety before. please, there is a lot of great research on the brain recently and how different forms of therapeutic interventions create new neural pathways that lessen anxiety..
ok, things that helped me:
1) first is just to recognize and normalize it... say to yourself, oh yes, this is that anxious feeling... and name where you are feeling it in your body and what it feels like... burning, twisting, etc... and tell yourself that this is the body's normal response to this type of stress and that it will pass... it will be like a wave that will come up on you, crest and go through you..passing out and away... tell yourself not to fight it, just let it pass through you, allow yourself to float (like you would when going out through the waves past the break into the ocean)
when i felt really bad, i would imagine myself floating with jesus' hand under the small of my back supporting me... if you are not religious, use whatever image works for you...
another method is to imagine yourself and your mind as residing at the bottom of the ocean where it is calm, create an image of it that you can see and feel... all your thoughts, feelings, body sensations, memories are the waves that are passing over you far above on the surface... you can observe them above you... but you can also return your mind to the safety of the bottom of the ocean when you wish...
2) focus your attention on this moment (anxiety tends to be focused on the future).. the color of the room, the sounds, the feel of your feet on the floor, use all your senses and realize that you are okay in this moment.. developing a daily meditation or mindfulness practice can really help here.
2) develop some mantras for when your mind starts to spin.. to shift your thoughts and repeat them..."In this moment, I am ok" "I am strong enough, I will get through this and I will become an even stronger PON" One I used a lot was: "This is good, this is right where I need to be. I need this time to work on myself and managing my anxiety"...the key is to find what works for you.. SD would say "Isn't it interesting that my W thinks that?" as a way to distance and set an emotional boundary... At times when I would think of my W's new life I would say over and over to counter the thoughts, "If I love her, I let her go." Even telling yourself that your W's journey to find herself is going to be a long one, may help you let go of some of the anxiety and expectations about where things are right now..
3) i read tons..the best for me were by pema chodron, jack kornfield, tara brach, bible verses... tara brach also has free talks and meditations on her website (google her)... i would listen to them getting ready in the morning and in my car and they would counter the anxiety in profound ways... i got to where i feel a sense of relief and calm when i hear tara's voice... she is a buddhist psychologist and her talks are not religious, just about how we use the mind...
4) i made a document full of quotes (from fellow DBers, those authors above, the bible, joseph campbell, etc) and kept some up on post its in my room on mirrors or in my wallet... i read them constantly for awhile...
5) practicing self compassion and self care... not beating yourself up about the past (that can trap us in shame... look up and study brene brown on shame)... exercise, eating healthy, etc..
6) GAL: The brain also loves novel experiences... find some new places to visit, new things to see and be interested in, PON.. i found some meditation groups and activities...
7) and spend time with people who love you. I know that I spent hours online getting to know and getting support from some of the fine people on this board who helped me through the toughest phases of the journey...
i hope you will consider IC... the feelings need to come out (what you feel, you can heal is a favorite quote) but you need a safe path and a good IC can help you stay safe on the journey... i agree with many on this board that a MC can do very little to stop the tide of a WAS/MLCer... but a good IC has an arsenal of very well researched and effective tools to help with anxiety and to help you manage the difficult feelings underneath it.
take care of yourself PON and please access help when you need it to get through. (((((((((((((((((((((PON)))))))))))))))))))))))))
Me(f): 51 W: 41 DP:8 M:3 T:10 "W not happy" 7/11 D final: 8/13
grace thanks for post. I have tools to manage anxiety. The trend is the day after she does this I spin out. I call everyone on my list to call. Which is ok. Some on list I shouldn't call. My alanon sponsor is spot on. I think snodderly is right, gabby is right, I know you're all right. I honestly am continuing to work on myself very hard. I'm so early in on the work though. It is so slow moving for me. I need to put more of this in my higher powers hand and let it go from this day forward. I appreciate your tips. I have a rubberband on my hand, I have mantras, I have chi gong breathing which helps me deeply. (deep slow breathing) I have alanon sponsor who is a GOD send miracle.
I am doing much better right now in this moment. My disappointment is from 7 am to 10 am I spun my tires badly.
Also I am not going to beat myself up over this. I handled the situation last night much better in the past. I didn't get all clingy etc. The only possible slip up I wasn't happy with was I stated after she said we havent talked in 2 months. I did say I wish things were back to where we were 4 months ago, kissing cuddling etc but there not. She said "I know YOU do." That was the only thing I wasn't happy with myself stating but that really wasn't that bad.
Mostly disappointed with myself this morning. I skipped early morning gym because my anxiety paralyzed me this morning. I spent 3 hours on the phone getting support instead of giving up control and putting in higher powers hands. Live and learn.
With respect to reading, i have been reading "How to act right when your spouse acts wrong" I keep reading it over and over again. It has been a huge help. It is very Christian focused. If that is your worldview, I highly recommend it.
Hi Rock... can you toss out & share some tips? Much appreciated. Tx, wfm
M:46 H:49 T:20yrs myD:22 H distant summer/12 H sleeping in b'ment: Nov/12 BD: Dec 2/12 asked me begin to move end of Jan/13 moved Jan 7/13 (left my stuff) "agreed" to "working on r" Mar 3/13(lipservice!)
Snodderly I admit when I'm wrong. I think just talks of going to vaca house this summer and acting like there were no issues might have put pressure on her or made her feel I didn't let go at all.
PON, you have "put pressure on her" b/c you are clearly telling her you want to work on the M. She told you in April she did not. It's been two months and you did not "let her go". I am not saying you should have, she IS your wife. But yes, you pursued her with every single conversation and text, you asked yourself "is this IT? IS she coming closer to me or farther away? What should I do/say/ and how?" There was a lot of spinning and I don't believe it's always well hidden from her.
But I think she's been very clear and I think she sounds resolute. I mean, for some time she's been pretty consistent. Having days where she talks pleasantly to you, is not really "making up", in my eyes.
She did not say she is staying in the m "because" you are going to be difficult, she said she had not filed yet b/c she feared that. That does not mean you need to roll over.
If your lawyers have all said 50% custody is unrealistic for a sahm and a full time working dad, then it probably is. You'll have to double and triple check that, but if it is, so be it. Her life style will go down. I doubt you'll pay alimony for long...so she will have to work outside the home. Maybe that is when you can readdress the custody issue? And when the kids are older, as well.
I don't know if she'll file. But I do believe, strongly, that she'll cross every boundary you have. And then what?
Acting like one big happy family and talking future talks got to her.
Future talks is a form of pursuit. Acting like a "happy family"? I don't get that from your posts, with her silence and all. Not sure what that means but I'm not sure it matters now. I'm getting close to calling her on the D word. There gets to be a point where that card gets tiring. I'm talking 2 years of saying D with no action. T2 not sure if your W played the D card so much. I think you did call her on it. You told her if she wants a divorce, you won't stand in her way. Of course it's tiring to hear it. My h never suggested it once in his haze. He just thought we'd "work it out" - no matter what he did.
If he had said "Divorce", more than once, or not in the heat of the moment, I would take heed.
You said you both remained calm & it did not escalate (excellent!). But she still said the D word. So it wasn't said in the heat of an argument or fight.
I would NOT assume this is a blip in the radar. It might be, but I think it's a dangerous assumption.
I just feel strongly she considers herself free to do as she pleases.
You may want to watch the credit cards b/c you'll be stuck with half the debt (or more, since you are working and she's not)...
what legal steps can you take to protect yourself?
What if one credit card was limited in amount (to limit YOUR liability for her debts) so that if she needed something for the kids, it would be fine but only up to, say, $1000, and the other credit cards went away...or into your pocket?
Please check with a L. Is Mass exclusively a no fault state?
Maybe subconsciously I was pursuiting her. ((((( PON )))))
you were subconsciously AND consciously pursuing her every day and night.
You forced yourself out to GAL, which I COMMEND, but it seemed to me, that almost every thing you did or said or texted her, you analyzed so much b/c it was aimed at getting HER to notice you or your "detachment". You analyzed and analyzed and spun your wheels about things that most of us would not be able to manage that much energy on.
When you GAL just for YOU and rebuild your self esteem, for YOU, that will stop being pursuit. I think it is coming.
All I can say last night I told her if she wanted to go file she could. I would not stand in her way. If she thinks D would bring her happiness then all I want is for her to be happy.
She said "ok I just didn't want to spring it on you or surprise you". I said ok thanks.
Yes she said "I'm afraid on how you will act" you are not easy to talk with and I don't want to go through the L's for everything. That our first mediator said he wouldn't take our case because of your attitude. BTW I told the mediator I wanted kids 50% split and holidays and W didn't like that and mediator said it wasn't realistic. So that made me a bad guy and yes at the time I didn't want to be in that office.
Putting it in gods hands
Keep putting in God's hands...turn your marriage and your anxieties over to Him.
I had to think it, say it out loud and hear myself say it, for it to sink in. But I sure did it a lot. I'd say it right out loud, "God, I put this marriage into your hands. I put my anger and fears into your hands, b/c they are too heavy for me."
It does help. I did it a hundred times before I thought my h would call. It calmed me.
Also, I know you in person. You're a stocky strong guy with a wicked sense of humor. You have some serious brains for making money.
When you're not spinning about your w, you're a very strong, "together" guy.
I see you working hard on managing your fears and anxieties, but somehow, wanting to stay with the one person who brings them out. That's sad, to me. I don't get it.
It's one thing to say "ACOA" but you and I both know that group can SOMETIMES be a pity party "victim club." You cannot blame what you do now, on your dad's drinking.
everyone has to do what they need to do. B/C you might have been brought up with the subconscious message that life MUST USUALLY be hard, and there's always another shoe waiting to drop...
So it surprises us that we can be happy, or at least content, most of the time. And that there are not necessarily ANY other shoes. That we are allowed to trust that we are loved, when we surround ourselves with those who love us.
That when life throws us a curve ball, and it will, that WE won't be thrown.
Do you have siblings near you with whom you are close? Any long time friends to hang with? How about the new people in your life?
And reconnect with EE in Boston. IT takes effort PON, but so does life. And EE is solution focussed.
The more I surrounded myself with people who KNEW & LOVED ME, the more I was first reminded of what my h would lose and later, as I detached, the more I was reminded of how good my life would be, regardless of h's choices. And it was/is.
You need to know that.
Your Life can be better. The "real you", deserves better. I think good things are around the corner for you. I really do.
Not saying there won't be some major hurdles, but you can become a happier man down the road, no matter what your w does...it's up to you.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
