Crimson.....Holy smokes, I'm piecing,

[SemperFi00]

Crimson,
Yes, you are stronger than you think! Your anger is normal but don't stay in that state. I have discovered the intensity of my anger is in direct proportion to an underlying fear & feeling of helplessness in a situation. Remember, anger is not power, but a quest for power when feeling helpless.
Believe in yourself. We're here to support you

As I said I've been following your sitch for a while and you've stood for what you believe in (your M and your family) and that takes a confidence and an inner strength that most people don't have. I respect the hell out of you for still standing.

Crimson, have been following your situation for awhile and your willingness to share your story has been helpful (both to me and many others).

Reposting 2 of these quotes that jumped out at me as a reminder of how much progress you have made and how strong you are.

Stay strong! Thoughts and prayers are with you.

[Crimson]

Thank you, SF. I appreciate it. Some days I don't know if I am standing for my family or if I am just chasing thin air. I'm probably not the only one here that wishes this ordeal came with a playbook. I really am lost a lot.

Seems like every morning I wake up I want to text her just to tell her that I miss her and my S. I wish I could, yet and the same time I hope for the strength not to. Part of me wants to hear "I miss you, too" but I know that that isn't coming anytime soon.

I guess all I can ask is that you all just keep me, my XW and my S in your thoughts and prayers. It is my most sincere wish that somehow we can put things back together somehow.

Just random thoughts for the day, but while she was here she stressed so much that she wanted a partnership....to feel equal....and I tried so much to provide that. I used to make decisions with out her input on some things that I thought were minor (ironically deciding that they were minor was a decision that I made without her input) and she was hurt by it but never spoke up. I really was striving to be the best partner she could have in everything while she was here -- and I don't think it made an impact on her....not enough for her to want to stay and work on things.

Crimson

[Tryin2figuritout]

Crimson,

I'm only new to piecing as my W just started talking about it end of May, but I feel your pain completely. It was so much easier when there was no desire for her to reconcile, but now it's so hard to stay in check with emotions.

She'll have a few days where it's all good and then just when you're thinking it will get better you get the panic button full throttle from her. It's utterly confusing and difficult to stay in check emotionally.

I've found that the more I project being positive without pressing on our relationship the better she responds, so I'm trying to hold myself firm to focusing on me and not what she does/feels which really got me to piecing in the first place.

My prayers and thoughts are with you to stay strong.

Trying

[BC39]

Your in my thoughts in prayers.

I'm certainly not going to compare your sitch to mine, but SOME of the stuff your going through and feeling are so eerily similar to mine its like your typing the words for me.

Its a daily struggle for me looking for answers, questioning everything, trying to give up any control over the situation, not being affected by W actions, coming to terms with the fact things have changed, etc etc etc.

Its all SO confusing at times.

Some days I don't know if I am standing for my family or if I am just chasing thin air. I'm probably not the only one here that wishes this ordeal came with a playbook

I would be shocked if I haven't asked myself that same question 1000 times.

Again, my thoughts are with and your son...

[Crimson]

Thanks, Tryin2. That was as very helpful post for me. It basically described exactly what had been happening in my home for the last three months. There were moments, many of them I might add, where things were great - and then there would be these times where I could see a slow burn of anxiety in her taking shape and then it would eventually subside. I thought it was normal in the piecing process, and maybe it is - so I didn't think much of it. Well, too many of those "slow burn" anxiety sessions leveled against someone that is in a place where they are thinking and acting mostly on emotion add up. And in my situation, that resulted in the flight response.

So maybe this is my problem right now - I don't know exactly what to do right now. I thought about this on the drive this morning.

Do I just go dark 100%? I can see the logic in it, but at the same time I greatly fear that this would be read as me not getting what I want and taking my ball and going home. We DID make progress the last go 'round - I just don't know how to preserve or build upon it.....or if it's even possible to do so right now. Hence, I really don't know if vanishing into the shadows only to appear when there is stuff about S is the right approach.

Do I periodically reach out just to say hello or check in? I really DO miss and wonder about them both. I miss the friendship that we have. Our jokes, the sharing of the goings-on in our lives. Or is this pursuing?

I feel like right now I have to put my heart in a cage just to keep from reaching out. Is that the right thing to do?

Crimson

[sandi2]

Others may not agree with me, but it concerns me that she never told you she loves before moving back in with you. Seems to me that should have been said first, before talks of moving back. If she "couldn't" say it, that would be a red flag that she just wasn't feeling it. Now if she wasn't D and living all this time away, and the two of you had been living together....then I would see differently, but in your stitch...I believe she should have been able to at least say it. Yet she was waiting for those "in-love" feelings to just rush over her and cause her to swoon? Look, I know how long it can take to get those feelings back, but to move back in with you after being S all that time and not able to say she loves you.....something is off. It seems like the cart before the horse. The two of you could have worked on that part without living under the same roof, IMHO.

I remember how she would panic if she thought the two of you might be alone if your son wasn't going to be there with you. I remember you referred to going someplace as a "date" and she got so skittish that she called it off. So how much time did just the two of you have alone, before she moved back? Were there any romantic times before she moved back?

Puppy used to ask this question....and it absolutely nailed it. How did she kiss you? A woman can have sex without ever really kissing passionately. Maybe the man notices, or maybe he is just happy getting sex. If she is really attracted to him, she's going to show it in her kisses.

Then Bond said something I've always believed, too. I have not said it as often as I would like, b/c it doesn't set real well with the mods if I do. But here it is as Bond said:

Originally Posted By: MrBond
"That's why it's not uncommon for there to be several "false starts" when it comes to recovery. It's usually not until the LBS gets fed up with their lack of trying and actually become the WAS that things start changing.

I think that's your main problem in your stitch. You have always been available. Too available! She never had to experience how most women live after D. If she needed anything, you were there. I would get so angry at her, b/c she sounded so spoiled and selfish. She has really had a lot of cake to eat!

I know you have made tremendous changes in yourself. I believe everyone here admires you in those great accomplishments. I am certainly among them. However, I will admit that there have been many times that I wanted to reach through the computer and shake you... Why? B/c you have been too good to her! It doesn't work on most WAW's that left for the reasons she gave you. What did she lose due to the D? Besides the obvious comforts of life you had given her, what else? She sure didn't lose you. Ever! She had you around, and she called the shots and made sure you knew not to press your luck. She wanted you for a best friend. At what point did it change to lovers?

Crimson, you're a nice guy. I don't know how you may have been in the past, but you are a very nice man, now. You have been extremely available and "giving" to your XW, trying so hard to prove your changes. But in MHO, all that's left is for you to do what Bond said. She will not pursue you if you're always there at her beck & call. When you did not initiate contact with her when she went to visit family, didn't she break down to contact you? If she saw you passing her up for a better life (and the possibility of meeting a better wife), she would start to realize just how much she really wants you in her life. But she has to see that she wants you more than just a best friend who will do everything with her and son. She has to see you having a life and being happy without her. She has to see you taking son and not including her in those parent-child activities, even if she should ask in the beginning. The two of you continued as a "family" after the D, but when she didn't want you to be with her & son....she had no problem telling you! She had the best of both worlds. I seriously saw no difference after the D was final and she continued to play her games and treat you so badly. You were still available to her! That is one of the first things MWD tells the LBS....is not to be so available.....and that's before a D, so I would think it would go double after a D. Your XW is wanting that second baby, still, and she needs to realize that she can't have both....the family togetherness and a divorce. That's exactly what she has wanted and has had ever since she left you in the beginning. That's what she wants by having this second baby. She has you and the kids but she doesn't have to play the role of wife.

You can't stand to think about other men dating your XW, but don't you know that if it were turned around and knew you were dating other women that she would feel the same about you? If she didn't, then you don't need to hang on anyway. But the biggest change in her will come if she believes you are dumping her. As long as it was her dumping you, it was fine. But just you watch what happens if she sees the new Crimson dumping her.

[Spartan]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^What Sandi said^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Your previous post...you are over thinking things again. Take some time and relax. Just be for a little bit and let things work out how they will. I've been accused of over thinking (too many times and have the welts to prove it) and I can vouch that it's NO WAY TO LIVE YOUR LIFE.

Start living YOUR life

Just be you for a little bit and do things YOU want. Spend time with your S. Stay busy when you aren't with him so you aren't thinking so much.

[Crimson]

Sandi,

I see you not just a WAW expert here on the boards, but THE WAW expert here. So much of what you have said has been helpful to me since I've been here. It has changed my course many times.

The fact that she never said ILY nagged at me. Ditto on "I've missed you". But I guess I looked past it. There are other friends that I have that have said I have been far too nice. I guess I have always feared that being anything different, fomenting conflict, etc. - would push her away and make her think I'm an ahole. And who wants to be with that guy? I was so blown away by all of the charges leveled against me when she she dropped the bomb (it made me feel like I was the biggest ahole on earth) that I have tried not to land there again. Put simply I read her anger as something that results in her rejection of me. I am not saying this is logical or justifiable - it's just where my head goes.

I strongly believe that it is time to just move on with life. It's just difficult because I still love her and want my family back desperately. And I haven't given up hope. Sandi, as you may have read in previous posts I am terrified that lack of contact will be read as lack of interest and she will just be gone. Or just be glad I'm not interested. I don't want to be "out of sight, out of mind" with her. Now, I KNOW that doing the opposite hasn't done much for me in terms of long term success and breaking down her walls and restoring feelings. But I am so worried distance will push her away even though I know it MAY also make her further contemplate her loss.

You are right, she does want a second baby badly. At 40, time's a'wastin. What it would take to start that up with a new person in a meaningful relationship, marry (if that's a priority) and have a child seems like such a long time line. She wants a family - she has made that clear. Why not now? Why not with me? Sandi, how can she just look right past me? Someone that loves her, her son, wants a family, and wants another child?

I don't know how she would react if I were to date. I kinda feel like I would get the "well-good-I-want-you-to-be-happy" response, but part of me believes that if she truly knew or saw that someone was getting the love, affection and attention that has always been hers without question, she would struggle. She, like me, would probably have a hard time with the notion of another person raising our son.

I really need guidance here, Sandi and others. I really am not finding my way well this week.

Crimson

[Crimson]

I guess what I neglected to ask, Sandi, is if you've ever seen someone in my sitch make it back?

[AnotherStander]

Crimson, first let me say that you are doing great, you are feeling grief but you are processing it without anger and frustration towards your XW which is a great sign. And you've got a keen ability to read comments and figure out how to apply them to your sitch without taking them personally , so kudos to you

I've reread some of the posts and I keep going back to the pursuer/distancer dynamic. Does anyone think that is what is/has been at work here? At least partly?

Hard to tell if it's pursuer/ distancer or hot/ cold, but they are similar and I do believe that's what you're seeing. Here's Accuray's hot/ cold dynamic posting that I try to keep in mind in my sitch:

Another thing to expect is that your wife will run "hot and cold" -- she'll be nice to you one minute and the next will shut down hard. This is extremely confusing. Here's what's going on -- your wife will "try on" being nice to you to see how it feels, or if she gets comfortable may slide back into a familiar partner role. At some point she'll catch herself, will worry that you'll get the impression that everything is now "okay" when for her it is not, and will then make sure to demonstrate to you that everything is NOT okay by shutting you out and pushing you away. That's all an inner dialog so to you it just looks completely confusing. If you expect it, you'll enjoy when she warms up and won't worry too much when she goes cold.

It's tempting to get into a mode of catastrophic thinking -- that each time your wife goes cold you worry it will stay like that forever, or "oh boy, this is it, she's gone!" That leads you to panic and overreact. This is a roller coaster, and there will be very dramatic highs and lows. The best thing you can do is try to stay near an emotional baseline. If the WAS bounces between 10 feet up and 10 feet down, the LBS tends to go 25 feet up and 25 feet down in response. Your goal is to go 5 feet up and 5 feet down instead. Take the long term view. Easy to say, hard to do, but if you know what to expect things get easier.

This is what I was trying to explain to you earlier, I think you're overreacting to her inner dialog. You should just shrug your shoulders and say "this will pass" and keep on keeping on I'm confident she'll be back. But you shouldn't wait anxiously by the phone or door. Go back to rock-solid, independent, PMA Crimson, and when she comes back be cool, calm and collected about it.