Its tough; getting tougher

[amy1982]

In answer to whether my H suffered trauma...I believe he has never fully dealt w/ his childhood trauma. He is bitter at his mom & doesn't want to see her. They had a reasonable (I thot good) R at the time of our M but he has gotten increasingly bitter toward her. He also can,t stand his half sis & half bro. His Moms side of the family tends to hold grudges 4ever & its becoming more prominent in my H. My H admits he realizes he tends to run from problems & avoid working thro issues.
Some of the stress in our marriage has been because we met & married in a conservative church setting & I took for granted that's where we would stay. Little by little that has changed & now my H goes to bars, etc. There's little resemblance to the way we were when we got married. I tried to support & change w/ him which has not always been easy. It seemed like his buddy had more influence on him than I did. Hey just think of all the liberties & fun he had. I use to be bitter at him & his W but I realized that only made my H defend him more.
On a positive note my H is a super provider of income, is the best boss anyone could ask for, is talented in almost every way...he's a good guy at heart..just maybe a little lost & full of pain he's never dealt with. I love him.

[~ kd ~]

Amy, how exactly do you know that this buddy is turned on by his W having sex with other men and that she has been with at least 15 other guys? I'm just making sure that your information on such is not hearsay.

Also, I appreciate that you may have had a more conservative upbringing. The question is, are YOU more conservative minded by choice? Why or why not?

I may be wrong but it seems to me the more confident you are in your worth & value, the less likely you are to succumb to having an affair to feel good.

I want to speak to this, specifically. I would submit the more confident one is to their worth and value, the more likely they are to follow their core beliefs. What I might find is my worth and value does not make it worthy or valuable in another's eyes. Yet... if I am confident in it, I won't be swayed by other's belief systems.

Hope that makes sense for you and how you are following your own life path from this point forward.

That said, is an EA or PA a deal breaker for you, when you consider your worth, value, and morals?

I do understand how you wish your H would be more... attentive to you. Although I would caution your interest in your H being jealous of other's intention towards you. That can make for an unhealthy bond between you two. By all means, most people desire a monogamous, exclusive R with their intimate partner. That said, jealousy is a dangerous animal to entertain, in many ways.

Ah OK, I see in your last post you do point to a conservative church setting. By all means, without more information it was valid for you to have certain expectations regarding your H's behaviours. That said, perhaps you did not know your H well enough. Expectations can be our undoing. At this time, please try to keep expectations at zero.

What were some of his complaints regarding you? On this specific question, please indicate only things he specifically mentioned. Do you think they could be valid?

[amy1982]

Thanks for stopping by, Kaffe.
1. One of the guys that was briefly involved in that situation told me. (He regretted involvement instantly & has steered clear)
2. I do not hold to the same line ( as far as dress,no instrumental music etc) I did when we married yet by choice I am still conservative..Ex. wear skirts. I'm not promoting this as THE way..its just me & what I've chosen.
3. I do not believe an affair is a dealbreaker provided the wayward spouse is repentant & willing to do whatever it takes to re-establish trust. Because of my experience I understand how one can be caught in something they did not intend (which by no means excuses them!)& they can actually learn some VALUABLE lessons (albeit the hard way!) So I am willing to forgive my H but if he continues on this course......guess I'm waiting 4 further direction
4. I believe my H tried to fit into something that wasn't truly a part of who he was. He has said as much already...at that time in his life (he was only 20) he thot that was what he wanted. He promoted it. So yeah, I def had expectations I have had 2 drop. And at this point I have largely dropped all expectations (ummm maybe sometimes they're still there ) He comes & goes as he pleases & I ask no questions.
5 One big complaint- I don't accept his friends. Honestly I have a reasonable R w/ all but the jumble (his buddy & wife & H's GF) who live next door. They in no way respect the bounds of our M or anyone else's because they are fine w/ the wife having sex w/ married men. (I personally know 2 married guys who fell into that trap but then removed themselves from the situation)
B. I am too controlling. Ummm yeah..sometimes but that is his complaint about most women he sees in a R. If he hears of a man who honors his wife's wishes above his own, he says that guy's being led around by his nose. His mom WAS very controlling so anything that reminds him of that freaks him out.
C. I don't trust him. Unfortunately, that's been true the past 4 1/2 yrs. But the past 3-4 mo I have not confronted him w/ anything that I can think of. If I would have understood myself back then I would have realized its not so much about trusting him as trusting myself & my boundaries.

[~ kd ~]

OK, I do appreciate that you trust the source of the information, although I must stress that unless you heard it directly from the W or were witness to such, then it still is third part information. Still, fair enough.

On your specific morals and values, again fair enough. It is more important to have made a choice than to judge a choice right or wrong. Just be sure that you realize your H may have chosen a different path (well, HAS) and although he COULD change his mind and return to a common path, he may not. You don't have to decide right now if that would be a deal breaker for you, and until you DO, understand that you are accepting his current behaviour.

IF your M is saved, you MAY have a problem with his returning to the M. He MAY NOT repent in regards to the As in a way that you are hoping for, if at all. You might have to be OK with that and a possibility that he may also not have learned anything through the process. Sorry to say that. Things COULD turn out the way you hope, as always though, don't expect it. Rather accept it if you can, or set your boundary and enforce it.

While your H could be MLC, there is generally triggers. What you described earlier regarding past issues in his life regarding mother, etc... that's not a trigger, that might be what he'd try to resolve if he did end up MLC, though. A trigger could be anything such as a problem in business or employment, a death which could be something seemingly as benign as the death of a pet or a favourite sport hero, maybe an age thing, the birth of a child... it can be things we might not think would trigger them, but THEY are traumatised by it. Again, is there anything that might have preceded his changes that seemed significant to him?

Even if it is not MLC, there is a possibility that he is simply attracted to the "sin" of the couple in question, rather than a MLC. Things like that can be attractive for some people. Power, influence, taboo, or even just curiosity can be motivators for someone to be attracted to others. What do you think might motivate your H to be attracted to the couple?

It sounds like a complaint like controlling would be a valid complaint. Understand that you may not agree, but if his pattern is holding true then TO HIM it is valid. Could you address that in some way as a 180?

You are justified to not trust him, yet again it is likely a valid complaint for him. Again, how could you address this as a 180 that works within your morals?

Also, considering what I believe is your current context, I would strongly recommend you look into speaking with a DB coach at your earliest convenience. You may decide that you do not want it, but at least inquire into it.

And again, remember that you need to ensure that right now, you are open and honest about your goings on. The effects of your A with his brother is not going to go away quickly and easily. Even if he claims he's "over it", it's unlikely he is. As you mention, his learned behaviour from his upbringing is to hold grudges. How can you 180 or ensure that your course forward is an open book?

[amy1982]

I know one reason my H & buddy & wife get along is because they've made a pact "you keep my secrets & I'll keep yours".Also they"re less family oriented & so are free to go here & there. I've got 3 children 2 lug around & H has never done much w/ them at all...too much trouble. My H seems to have a cowgirl fantasy & that's just not who I am. Nor am I one w/ a bubbly personality..but ppl would call me fun. I feel like he wants a diff personality type.
I think I have done 180 on being controlling....
Any suggestion how I can 180 on trusting him? I no longer question him outwardly but I honestly don't trust him or his word at face valu. I use to...
I do not have a lock on my phone & leave it lying around,& try to let him know where I go. But he has never wanted 2 know those things, b4 or after A. He gives me blind trust so I will return the favor.

[~ kd ~]

Do you suspect that neighbour girl / OW is part of this "group" now?

One thing that seems fairly common is, while there is an OP it is unlikely that things will progress to R. On a positive note, most As end a natural death.

As far as trusting him, what specifically do you not trust him with? Yes, you have mentioned some reasons, I just want you to list them again in case there are anything else that might have been missed.

Then maybe I can offer some suggestions on how you could 180 on your trust of him.

Good on being open. While it may not seem like he is interested in what you are doing, you would likely be surprised what they DO notice.

[amy1982]

O she's definitely a part. she lives right there.

[amy1982]

Ok..things that broke my trust..before we were married my H told me he had not slept w/ another woman.(u were expected 2 keep ur virginity in our setting) 7-8 yrs later I found out they had not "slept 2gether" but that didn't keep them from having sex. He had multiple partners.
There have been many other times when he minced words to leave a wrong impression. He also had 2 EAs that I was unaware of 4 some time. basically I don't trust him 2 tell me the truth, as well as hide things from me.

[amy1982]

O goodness, my H told me 2nite he's breaking under the weight of my affair 1 1/2 yr ago..that I am no longer exclusively his & he can never get that back. I understand yet I find it hard to believe its such an ultimate deal breaker when he's the guy that opened window blinds so his buddy could watch us have sex, he shared videos of our sexual experiences w/o my knowledge, he kissed in his EA & joked about them sealing their engagement, would sing, "loving two women is like a ball & chain", but he does not consider that he had an affair. Do I mention these things to him? He said he cant stand 2 be w/ me or touch me (obviously). But why did these intense feelings just show their head 7 mo about the same time his GF moved nextdoor?
It seemed he jst wanted to remind me how he felt about me. Is he trying to prepare me for something? He didn't seem interested in finding a solution. Why did he let it fester 4ever?
He began by asking me if Im happy. Maybe he noticed I am. He feels like I can go on my merry way & he's left to suffer.

[amy1982]

He also wrote in his long love letter to GF a line of a song that says "I'd just love to lay you down". So over time I came to believe it was not sacred to him. Plus he & his buddy made sexual jokes all the time. Can I tell him? Can I remind him of the pain I felt because of his affairs? I honestly would have rather had to forgive my H for a physical affair if he came back 2 me w/ his WHOLE heart than have him be in multiple continued emotional affairs.