things went south

[MrBond]

Trickle truths are going to be the norm for awhile, so be sure you keep that in mind and don't drop your guard. I seriously suggest you both see a MC though.

For now, when you have time alone with W, make those experiences - hyper experiences. Things that are very positive and fun. Get her to relax and start dropping her guard. You'll be able to see her demeanor change once she does. She'll talk to you more, be more comfortable, etc.

Once that happens, you'll be true Piecing. Have the two of you had sex yet?

[BC39]

Thanks Bond.

Trickle truths are going to be the norm for awhile, so be sure you keep that in mind and don't drop your guard. I seriously suggest you both see a MC though.

Agreed about not dropping my guard. I hope there's no more trickle truth but have to be prepared if there is. I'm going to suggest MC. I'm mind reading, but I think she may may baulk at it. During our last R talk 2 weeks ago I said I thought stopping MC last year was bad idea (we did MC 7-8 times from July to Oct). The MC told us in Oct (when we agreed to reconcile) that she thought her work was done but to come back if we needed her. W agreed. I voice my concern but didn't push it to hard.

I'm going to suggest it (and/or Retro). If she gives me push back I'll tell her I'll go be myself and maybe she'll follow suit. Thoughts?

For now, when you have time alone with W, make those experiences - hyper experiences. Things that are very positive and fun. Get her to relax and start dropping her guard. You'll be able to see her demeanor change once she does. She'll talk to you more, be more comfortable, etc.

I agree. We get there some of the time, but it could better and I will do better.
I told her last week that she could be vulnerable with me. She smiled and said thanks for saying that.

Once that happens, you'll be true Piecing. Have the two of you had sex yet?

Yes, once last week, initiated by her. And once this week initiated by me.
I've changed my approach to sex but I can give more detail on that later.

[MrBond]

For the sex, maybe try to shake things up so that it's not status-quo. Give her new experiences to show that your relationship is a new dynamic.

[lovethehub]

I'm going to suggest it (and/or Retro). If she gives me push back I'll tell her I'll go be myself and maybe she'll follow suit. Thoughts?

Is your MC pro marriage? DB style? If not, I would recommend Retro because MC can be harmful than helpful.

[BC39]

Journal and random thoughts...

Bit of a frustrating day yesterday.

It started with talking to W best friend (she also one of my best friends) that she talks to about our R. This friend will tell me some of their conversations in hopes it may help me and us (I understand I need to be careful with this).

Anyway, one of the things she mentioned was W has felt some pressure in regards to sex. I'm trying to take this info with a grain of salt but I'm confused. I've only tried to initiate S a couple times in the last few weeks-one of the times we did (although I could tell she didn't really want to) and the other time she turned me down. Last week she completely initiated once and it was great.

In the past when I got turned down I would basically take offense and get quiet. I'm trying to change that now by showing PMA and that it doesn't bother me (it still does truthfully but I'm trying).

As well, it was just a few months ago that my W complained that she was always the one that had to initiate S.

As well, a couple months ago I had made a playful comment a couple hours before bed about having S later, which she seemed okay with. When we did go to bed she turned out the lights, said goodnight and rolled over. When I brought it up the day after about being disappointed she said "well you didn't try very hard".

All of this ^^^ but now she says she feels pressured? I'm confused.

So last night we send the kids to my parents for the night so we can go out with our friends (same friends as mentioned above). We have a good time, lots of laughs, W has a few drinks, and we get home to an empty house for the first time in a while. I figure its the perfect time.

I snuggle up to her in bed and she says she doesn't feel like it. I keep PMA and ask her if everything's okay and that I thought she may have been a little distant that day. She said "I just have a lot on mind with work and stuff" (she just started her own business).

I know I'm mind reading but I know that wasn't the reason.

Its days like today I get very deflated that W still isn't "in to me".

I'm still very dependent on how she is. She could initiate S tonight, I'll feel validated, then I'll be okay until I have another night like last night. That's a work in progress for me.

I try to be patient, patient and more patient, but its hard. Its hard keeping up all my efforts despite the fact my W may never have that spark for me again.

[lovethehub]

BC,

Do you know your wife's LL? Sex is emotional for women. As Dr. Phil says "Women need a reason, men need a place". This may not always apply, but in a LTR I believe it does.

When H and I are "separated" and then come back together, he always wants to have a lot of sex. I have no problem with that when things are good, however, when we are first trying to fix things it does feel like pressure. And when he isn't speaking my LL, it it is a turnoff, it feels like what I want doesn't matter at all.

I have also gone out w/H, had a great time, lots of laughs and not wanted to have sex after (of course, many times I have, too) because on the way home it starts to feel like an expectation and that can be a turnoff, too.

Part of the pressure can also be in her head. If you aren't approaching her but she knows she "needs to" have sex with you, she may be pressuring herself to initiate it.

H and I used to play a game of sorts that we read in a M book. We had a little shiny red heart and I would place it on his nightstand and then he would have up to 3 days to initiate sex. Then the heart was his until he placed it on my nightstand and I had up to 3 days to initiate. I don't ever remember either of us waiting once we saw it, and it actually increased our sex life a LOT! You don't have to tell W how you know, just say you feel hesitation from her and suggest this idea.

[MrBond]

Have you ever tried just making out without sex? Many times women just need to be held.

[BC39]

LTH - thanks so much for staying with my thread.

My W just took LL quiz a couple weeks ago. When she got it she asked "do I answer based on my ideals or how I feel now". I told her to base it on her ideals.

She's Words of Affirmation and Quality Time. I've been working of the WoA since BD a year ago. I sucked at it before. Quality Time I'm working on, as W stated recently there's times when she gets anxious when were out alone (this comment confused me a little as we get along great when alone, but its obviously more than that).

You are 100% correct about the emotional connection. That is our biggest problem. It's what I'm striving to get back. There's times when I feel like its happening and times when I feel like I need someone to tell me word for word what to say to her to get it back.

You make some very great points above ^^^ thanks! I'm just heading our the door but I'll touch on the rest of them later...

[MrBond]

You should have told her to base the test on how she "feels" right now. She could have always changed it after that.

[BC39]

Bond "Have you ever tried just making out without sex? Many times women just need to be held."

There's been lots of cuddling and holding and kisses, but the making out has been an issue for a while.

Pre BD a year ago she started complaining about how I kissed. I wasn't doing right etc..

After BD when we were going to MC it came up that we should be doing 10 second kisses, but we didn't do it.

It came up in conversation a few months back when I jokingly made a comment about how were supposed to be doing 10 sec kisses. I also told her I didn't really like the way she kissed either, so we should try to find a way to meet in the middle.

Truth is, and I'm embarrassed to say, but I don't think we had a 10 sec kiss since before BD a year ago. Not many open mouth kisses at all actually. Mostly just 2-4 sec closed mouth.

She used to say how much she enjoyed kissing as well...

Just typing all this makes me feel silly that I haven't paid more attention to it. I really want to, but I know she isn't 100% into it right now. And I'd be lying if I said I wasn't insecure about doing it to her liking.

I'm all ears on thoughts on this..

Thanks