No more games- suckerpunch

[swoop]

Thanks, JP.

I really appreciate your support, and I am glad that you are back with us and willing to dig deep to work on yourself.

I am really in it today. I have been up since, well....before the crack of dawn with my head and heart just swimming. I think a big portion of my anxiousness is that I am FINALLY in a position that I realize what wife needed. She needed to be loved, doted on, appreciated and all of that needed to be expressed to her through my words and actions. I have always felt it, but I didn't express it. I didn't show her enough. I needed to be much more open about expressing my love for her. That is how it worked in the first several years of our marriage. I really really wish I could do that now. I want to do that. I want to just hold her hand for no other reason than, "I love her". I want to tell her how pretty she is...Unfortunately, her hand is just not available to me any longer and it crushes me. Anyway, I am babbling. I am just hurting. I want her back. I want my family back. I know with all my heart it would be the way it should have always been. But, she can't see it. She won't see it. Even if she could see it, she wouldn't allow it. THAT makes me sad....my whole life feels like this..... Suckerpunchs' life, or at least how he feels it.

[jp787]

Sometimes I find fitting songs that fit with how I feel in this mess and there's not a shortage of them.

The problem with doing that is, it not only keeps you down, they rip at your heart and surround you with darkness.

Not helpful.

[jp787]

Here. Try this one.

Eminem - Not Afraid

[swoop]

Sometimes I find fitting songs that fit with how I feel in this mess and there's not a shortage of them.

The problem with doing that is, it not only keeps you down, they rip at your heart and surround you with darkness.

Not helpful.

I agree. When that song first came out, it did pull at my heart strings. I am pretty okay with it now. It doesn't make me feel sappy or sad....just tells a story. I like Marhsall as well, although "Not afraid" is not one of my favorites. Regardless, Point well taken, JP

[swoop]

ohhhh, Left something out...geeez. Probably going to need a nap today...haha


So, I gave more and more thought to how I feet about the anniversary, how I wanted to recognize it, what I thought was right, how I wanted to honor it. I decided to send wife a simple text:

I want to say that you are now, and always have been the most beautiful woman I know. You are a wonderful, loving Mother and terrific friend. Without a doubt, you have the most caring heart of anyone that I know. There are no others like you,(wife). With all of my heart, I hope you find yourself enjoying this day.

[AnotherStander]

I want to say that you are now, and always have been the most beautiful woman I know. You are a wonderful, loving Mother and terrific friend. Without a doubt, you have the most caring heart of anyone that I know. There are no others like you,(wife). With all of my heart, I hope you find yourself enjoying this day.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! Don't send this! It was just YESTERDAY that you asked her out on a date and got it thrown back in your face, and you had a moment of clarity:

and away I went....choked up...was full of expectations and it bit me on the hiney. I tried to act as if, but I am sure there was visable hurt in my face. I haven't put an offer out there in a while and I start by doing a spur of the moment date offer? I don't even know what I expected.

And now you're going to follow that up with a love letter? Can you honestly say that you can send that with zero expectations? I don't think you can, and I promise you, you are going to be very disappointed in her response (if there even is one). What happened to your game plan from yesterday? This one:

Regardless, We have been growing farther and farther apart. Wife is dating. She is starting a new life that I probably wouldn't fit into now, even if we did reconcile. She isn't coming back and it is time for me to really get that through my thick skull. I think maybe it is time for me to go as dark as possible. It's just too much on me, and I can't detach or hold no expectations when I engage her.

I think you were completely right. You need to go as dark as possible, for YOU. So, ask yourself, if you were dark then how would you change your above message to her?

[swoop]

You know, I didn't even really think about it that way, AS.
I gave the anniversary a LOT of thought and I realized that, I don't wish to ignore it as if it never happened and those were things I wanted to say....so I sent it. I honestly had no expectations regarding that text. If I didn't get a reply, it wouldn't have bothered me all that much. The text was more for me personally. I didn't consider it a "love letter". I didn't express my love for her, but I can now see what you are pointing out. I hope it didn't come off as pursuing or pressuring, because that was not my intention. If she did interpret it that way, that will be her emotions to deal with. I did what I wanted to do. I didn't mention the anniversary itself, just noted the day.

With that said, wife did reply, and I was a little surprised by her text.....mostly just the use of wording, I guess

Thank you for that,(Suckerpunch). Happy Anniversary. today will always be special to me, no matter where we are at in our lives. Have a good day and let me know what the Dr. says about (daughter).

Daughter had an apointment today, obviously. The "happy anniversary" part threw me....horrible choice of wording on her behalf, I would say.

[25yearsmlc]

So, I am really struggling with detachment.

This weekend, wife was present at our business, for a bit. She spent time with friends and family, who apparently didn't sugar coat their feelings with her. She was told that they did not aprove of her dating, of her continuing to stay under a roof that I am providing, that she leave daughter with a sitter while she went out to invent her new life or that she was expecting a payoff for her decision to leave the marriage. That is some pretty hard tough talk, and wife was feeling sad about it.

Who on earth would tell your wife ANY of ^^this? I thought you told your friends to butt out and that it's none of their business? As for the financials, I have to wonder if that is your family, the most biased of all parties and who have their own financial interest involved, who are commenting. YOU need to shut that down. IT totally hinders any possibility of reconciling.

I honestly think your family/friends' comments are have harmed your situation several times more than you realize. I mean, exponentially damaging...


She posted some pity party stuff on her Facebook. For the first time, in a long time, I really didn't care all that much.


Then why read it at all? Your previous posts showed some insights and then real desire to improve.

THEN your feelings got hurt, you were challenged...and you reverted immediately to the choice of first resort for you, ANGER....again...and again...I have to say this is very frustrating to read so often with you.

None of your "insights/growth" matter if you always revert to your old ways when it gets hard. IT will get hard. Life's that way.

Anyone can be a fun, decent guy in the good times....that's NOT the test of character or growth you want to pass.




I felt like, "screw her. I hope she finds happiness, but I can't worry about if she does or if she doesn't. I felt almost indifferent about it. Then, this happened....



SP, I call BS on this claim^^...

you were p1ssed off, plain and simple. NOTHING "indifferent" about it. Come on...I don't like wasting my time on plain falsehoods, b/c it delays us getting to the REAL stuff, like your anger and jealousy and the negativity from your family and friends who must have NO IDEA what actually helps a relationship.

They're so used to bashing and thinking negatively of others, they have no idea how harmful they were AND ARE to your marriage and to how you see things in the world.

I don't know how you're ever going to really change your paradigm or learn inner contentment...not in that environment, unless YOU set boundaries. And you don't/won't.

You let those people say those things to your wife...did part of you want it?

I worry that Part of you enjoyed it and hoped it would shame her into crawling back to you. But you need to understand that in reality, I suspect it had the opposite effect...



Wife left our daughter saturday afternoon, for the remainder of the night. She left her with an absolute DRUNK who stays at our business during the summer months. During her time with this "sitter", she was exposed to exxcessive drinking, left to the supervision of an 11 YO. boy and allowed to stay up very late into the night playing. In all reality, daughter probably had a blast. Still, it didn't settle well with me. I was present and perfectly capable of watching her. Wife didn't ask.


Wait...you were present and perfectly capable of watching her. So she WAS safe? OR you could have watched her but chose not to?

Why didn't you step in and take care of your daughter if it was not safe? Why did you hold onto your anger/scorecard instead of remedying the problem?

If the house were on fire, would you rescue your d - or watch her burn so you could blame your w?

I am sure you'd save your d in that extreme situation but do you see that this is analogous??

You say you SAW your d in a situation you felt was unhealthy and you did nothing b/c "wife didn't ask"....

either it was safe and you are just being negative again, OR it was not safe and you stood by and fumed...and I have to wonder why that is...

I don't like her choices, but I don't like yours much either.


The next day, Father's Day, wife asked if she could take daughter to see her grandfather for a going away party. I agreed, but I was also hurt that I was not asked to attend. I really admired this man and feel that we have a great connection. It just hurt being reminded that I was no longer part of the family.

On FATHER'S DAY you could have simply calmly firmly asserted your desire to be with your d. Not your "right" so much as your desire to celebrate your d's life in yours...why'd you let this happen? So weird to me, so obvious that you should have spent the time with your d. As a compromise you could have offered to share the day with her grandfather...but oh, then you'd have to communicate!!

Maybe it didn't seem that important to you, to your w. I mean, you said "yes" your d could go AND you didn't ask to attend...why not? Why does she have to mind read when you have told her several times that you don't want her around so much?...
AND then expect her to invite you places you want to attend,

you have wants and you feel hurt, but you say nothing...

how's that approach working for you?




As always, my hurt turned to anger, which was increased

"increased" by....YOU, not by something wife did...

how can you STILL make it all her fault that you were angry and that you CHOSE to convert hurt into pain, "as always"??

You sure get close to seeing the truth and your role in it, but I guess it gets to be too much, so you revert and blame her again....it's keeping you stuck and getting you nowhere.

...SP, you were mad and hurt the WHOLE weekend. SURE - I wish she'd made different choices about Father's Day. But I wish that for you too.

You don't seem to know how to calmly express yourself or to resolve a conflict. One of you has to mind read or give in and then fume, but there's no resolution that is mutual.

Still....AND as for her being with OM, for a whole night, I can't help but feel your family's 'blame shame game' pushed her into his arms more...I really do have that feeling.

Shame is NOT an effective tool for change. It's just destructive. No one crawls home to a marriage in shame, and is then happy, OR stays....no one.


by the lack or follow through on wifes part. I beleive wife stayed out all night with OM the previous night. So, she did not bring daughter to see me before going to he grandfathers party.

I was okay with that. Our agreement was she would have daugther between 1-4.

Why were you "okay" with ^^this? And then whey did you AGREE to another delay? Can't you see how it looks? Like it's NO BIG DEAL TO YOU....that's how it looks, but instead, now,

you are mad at her for doing what YOU AGREED TO??? How do you get to set her up like this? And what lack of "follow thru" of hers, enables you to be angry at her again?

To me,

you looked like an uncaring dad who made no plans for spending time or doing something fun with his only child on Father's Day...

BUT you then blamed her for reacting to YOUR behaviors...why'd she have ANY time with d on Father's Day arranged? Why wasn't it clear that you wanted it? B/C you said/did nothing to make it happen, before AND all along the day!

Honest to God, it makes it look as if you want to be angry at her, like you want to see yourself as a victim.

I'm not even sure you're aware of this. Is it a dynamic your family has taught you?

Around 4:30 she texted asking if she could bring daguther to see me 6pm because she was having a good time and wanted to stay longer. I reluctantly agreed. Remember, this is on Father
s Day...MY DAY!

Wow, maybe you're just mad at yourself for not having an adult conversation the whole day.

But now, imo, you have zero right to complain. You agreed to every single request she made and you made zero plans for Father's Day, which is now obvious.

Sorry SP, at first I thought she was so out of line but now I think,

you don't get to whine about this^^^ part. Was she insensitve, or were YOU?

You made no plans at all to spend the day with your d. At least none that WE know of, or that your wife knew of.

Think about your history too...the dropped balls for special days (at least in her eyes) So given that, what expectations did you have of her, that were at all reasonable or fair?


So, at almost 7PM wife shows up with daughter. She hadn't eaten, she was dirty, my quality time was going to amount to finding her some dinner and getting her ready for bed, GREAT!

instead of??

And how would your w have known you wanted any different? After all, all you had to do was feed her and put her to bed.

Maybe to your w, she was doing you a favor, given how you gave your Father's Day away.


Needless to say, I had a hard time being detached. I was mad, I was angry, I was hurt. When wife showed up at the door, ready to go out (mind reading, but more than likely with OM) I felt so taken advantage of and disrespected. Wife didn't say sorry, she didn't say happy fathers day, she didn't say she appreciated my felxibility, nothing.


Why would she say ANY of those things? You GAVE your day away! You gave it to others every time you could have just said "no".

YOU looked uncaring but you want credit for that now and call it "flexible"? SP, to me, you were not "Flexible" - you were just lazy or silent. And you set her up. Again...and you seem to think you get to feel all "right" about being so angry!!

Man, SP, you have to learn a NEW -DIFFERENT- REACTION to pain, or be miserable for good.


Therefore I had very few words, really biting my tongue because I knew that I had to act as if. Other than being a little stand offish and distant, I think I did okay. I avoided any conflict, at least. Wife texted later saying "oh I forgot, happy Fathers day". I was able to make the best of the evening with the time I had with daughter. Today, I am just hurt thinking about it.

You need some recovery tools. I guess having my heart broken at a young age did pass some lessons on to me. So did the therapy for unresolved issues and the workshops I've mentioned to you.

Your inexperience with this type of challenge and inexperience with "personal growth" touchy feely things, shows a lot and that's not a criticism, it's just what you have said. I mean, a lot of men never dig deep. And if your family had a "glass is half empty" dynamic, you may never dig deep.

B/C that underlying belief that worry and anger are "tools for coping" instead of Happiness impediments, keeps most people like that from ever digging deep for fear of what they might find.

But you clearly need some new tools.

SP, Why aren't you seeing a T or going to a personal growth or communication workshop?

You need to see life in a new way. YOU REALLY DO. Your family and friends are all reinforcing the very traits in you that are not helpful at a deep soul level.

I can see how they think (superficially) that dating others or stomping your feet at the injustice of your wife is helpful.


But her not reading your mind the whole weekend and taking your actually verbalized words at face value (like the things YOU SAID to her, which included silence and saying "I was okay with that" and "I reluctantly agreed" to)

but you never once said

"W, it's Fathers Day. I want to be with d."

Why couldn't you just say that from the get go? That is so obvious a question to me, but it never crossed your mind and those words never left your mouth...how odd.

Or better yet, why didn't you plan Father's Day ahead of time? Why not say what you wanted BEFORE you felt hurt/angry?

To me, THAT IS THE REAL QUESTION.

Ever wonder if Your wife had every right to forget the day, since it appeared to her as if you had?

[25yearsmlc]

SP

read La bug's words again...they are spot on for you.



Live today, you have no idea what will be happening 6 months from now. I would bet, like most WASs here that your W was checked out long before the BD but tried to stay in the game until it got to be too much. Unfair, maybe but that's what's on your plate, my plate, most everyone here got served the same dish. Don't make up stories about it, harness your need to make everything awful. (STOP the catastrophizing...it's part of the paradigm shift you must make ASAP or at least begin to...remember Carol's story? Maybe you ought to go read it again)

You wrote that you don't want to become like some Dd friends of yours. I had a similar goal, to keep from becoming resentful and angry, I gave enough of my life up to those feelings. You said you "hoped" you wouldn't become those things and it sounded as if you thought it was up to someone or something else to keep that from happening. It's completely YOUR choice, through YOUR actions and thoughts. Stay away from those people who are like that because they will want to teach you how to be just like them. Misery loves company.


Amen.

And although misery does love company, the inwardly content people are never lonely.

YOU CAN CHANGE BUT YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE IT, FOR IT TO HAPPEN.

And you have to get those tools Sp. Did you even check out the website of the workshop "Essential Experience"?
Please do.

[MrCAS]

SP... I get the feeling you are looking for magic answers. There are none. The unicorn ate them all.

I walked in shoes like yours. I dug deep. It hurts. A lot. However, the relief after is worth the effort.