Thanks, Kaffe ... I get what you're saying completely.
The women I was attempting to be poly with was NOT part of the swinging scene, but WAS part of the fetish scene, and knew my W and the man she's seeing. She knew the man fairly well and figured he would be a good intermediary I guess ... don't really know her motives. Most people in that scene have shunned her as they think she has major issues.
But you are correct in that those groups value individual relationships over groups.
Me 47 W 44 T 17 years, M 15 years D13, D10 March 2013 -- broke a trust/cheated late May 2013 -- W spoke of separation for first time June 2013 -- began reading DB
That's VERY true Kaffe. There was one point where a couple accused me of giving them an STD. We always had regular testing and all our partners did as well. When it was easily proven that not only had we NOT given them anything, and we were still clean, that couple was blacklisted from every party and group.
M:42 H:40 T: 18yrs M: 14yrs Open R/M: 18 years D19 S24 From PM 1st S 6 '08 Reconciled 8 '08 H BD, separated 5/9/13 Filed for S on 6/12/13 H committed to monogamous GF now
In the meantime, what sort of things can I do to re-establish that trust aspect (and any other things that may be bothering her)?
I have become much less secretive with my phone, leaving it out in the open for long periods of time and not hiding any texts I receive; I have taken all single women out of my contact lists, even if they are friends of hers, so there is no hint of impropriety; I have given her access to all of my pertinent online accounts -- banking, email, Facebook.
I tell her where it is I'm going on the rare occasions I go out, though maybe I should send her a pic of the people I'm out with, or call and have them talk to her so she'll know I'm who I say I'm with?
Also, which book do you think is more important for me to read first, DB or DR?
Me 47 W 44 T 17 years, M 15 years D13, D10 March 2013 -- broke a trust/cheated late May 2013 -- W spoke of separation for first time June 2013 -- began reading DB
Have looked into doing some volunteer work in our area ... it would be a 180 for me as one of my main problems (and she's brought this up a couple of times but never really nagged about it) is putting others before myself. It's not in an arrogant fashion or anything, but I would think if it doesn't impact me what's the big deal. I have a few friends who do things like this and they tell me how good it feels to have a positive impact on the lives of others. My wife is among the most selfless people I know, so it would be a big change for me.
Whether or not she notices isn't the main point (though is something I hope for) -- I'm trying to make myself a better person for whatever the future may hold.
Me 47 W 44 T 17 years, M 15 years D13, D10 March 2013 -- broke a trust/cheated late May 2013 -- W spoke of separation for first time June 2013 -- began reading DB
I have been extended a Father's Day invite by my dad, and it includes my sister and my kids. My W father passed away in the last year so she has nowhere to go and nothing to do on this day, and my dad is the closest thing she has left to a father/older male role model. My father did not include my W on the invite -- maybe because he knows a little bit about what's going on with us, but maybe just because he wants just his son and daughter and grandkids involved.
Would it be going against DBing if I asked if she wanted to come along -- mainly because our kids will be there and involved. I would go regardless of whether she can make it, but is this a nice gesture to make? Or is it showing that I'm not quite detached enough? I know I can and will have a good time because the kids are around. I just didn't know if I should extend a pleasantry and tell the wife that she can come along.
Me 47 W 44 T 17 years, M 15 years D13, D10 March 2013 -- broke a trust/cheated late May 2013 -- W spoke of separation for first time June 2013 -- began reading DB
OK, so you've noted your responsibility in not quickly disclosing to your W as well as the reality that the woman who "outed" you may have had some motives which really are inconsequential.
Also, you are OK with not being poly yourself, yet continuing to be in an open M as you believe your W will likely wish to, at least right now.
So that said, we come back to rebuilding trust.
I think what you are doing is great, just realize that you can not PUSH someone to trust you. Even placing your phone where she might find it, is a bit of a push. She may... or may not... look at your phone.
Establishing trust is a fairly systematic process. If you say you are going somewhere, go there. If you say you will be somewhere at a certain time, be there AT that time. If you say you are going to get something at the store, go to the store and get what you said you were going to get. Consistently follow up your words with actions that prove the words.
With trust regarding being open and transparent, that will be led by your W. If she asks you a question, be open and honest. No lies, not even "white" lies. Be factual and provide no excuses or reasons. If you give excuses or reasons, she will possibly feel you are trying to "sell" her, so even if you are being truthful, she may THINK you are lying, due to the broken trust.
But don't tell her you are going out with buddies and then take date stamped pictures back to her to prove you did what you said. That's pushing and could possibly offend your W. She will want to make up her own mind, in her own time, and that's her prerogative.
The books were written in the order of DB and then DR. Now a lot of the content is the same, although they were written in a slightly different way. DR is almost like a "DB for dummies" book. ie. There's stuff you can follow directly, like a workbook. I don't think it's a matter of which to read first. Just read them, even if it's a chapter of each, each day or week. Many people just devour the books in a couple days, each.
Good on the 180, also think of some other 180s you might do which either you feel are good for you or your W may have made a valid complaint about.
Regarding the father's day thing. Is that "normal" for your dad not to invite your W? I really do think that you need to have a conversation with him, regarding if you misread the invite. ie. Ask him if he specifically did not put your W on the invite.
If it was an oversight on his part, and he would be OK with your W being there (as would others, if they won't be offended or awkward over her being there), then certainly ask your W. Just don't expect her to say, "yes".
Speaking of which, work on yourself, become an even more amazing guy that only a fool would leave. Keep your hopes down and your expectations near zero. And keep moving forward.
Thanks Kaffe. Words of wisdom, most of which I was already thinking, but it's nice to have them reinforced.
Went out for a 4.5 mile run this evening ... nearly broke 32 minutes, which is a goal of mine. And got a call back from one of the volunteer things I looked into, Habitat For Humanity. Will be looking for a few more GAL and 180s, but in that regard things are moving pretty well already.
After we return from our next week's trip to the East Coast, I am planning to take each of my kids out one night a week for a couple of hours, just to catch up, as well as using another weeknight to catch up with an old buddy who moved across town and I almost never see. We're going to have a standing invitation to do something -- dinner, a movie, baseball game, whatever. And then Friday or Saturday night will be for me. I am keeping a journal, writing down a few goals and jotting down affirmations or positive thoughts I come across.
Me 47 W 44 T 17 years, M 15 years D13, D10 March 2013 -- broke a trust/cheated late May 2013 -- W spoke of separation for first time June 2013 -- began reading DB
Happy Father's Day to all the dads out there. Hopefully many of you are able to spend time with your kids (or your father) and temporarily forget what's going on.
Me 47 W 44 T 17 years, M 15 years D13, D10 March 2013 -- broke a trust/cheated late May 2013 -- W spoke of separation for first time June 2013 -- began reading DB
Good results at MC last night ... W came in with a list of things that had been pushing her away and things that will make her stay. She said I had (mostly) stopped the ones that were pushing away, and she had noticed some of the changes I've started that she said would go a long way toward keeping her. She also said that with those changes she would feel bad if she didn't invest some time and effort into our marriage.
I went in with no expectations, and really didn't show much emotion as she was reading this. The MC validated that the changes in me were evident, so I was happy with that. Doing this for me, after all.
We talked a bit more at home -- her choice -- and tensions are WAY down. As I was walking away to head upstairs she stopped me and gave me a nice, long hug, and kissed my cheek. I read nothing into it, just enjoyed it for what it was.
I know that this is just the beginning of the process, but I have gained some optimism about my situation. I will continue the 180s and DB'ing so that I can come out of this as a much improved person.
Me 47 W 44 T 17 years, M 15 years D13, D10 March 2013 -- broke a trust/cheated late May 2013 -- W spoke of separation for first time June 2013 -- began reading DB
