""Our" new house closed today. Too bad only one of us is moving! Glad it's not me. LOL
He's beginning to pack some things. You'll all love this. Instead of using moving boxes, he's using paper bags! He's in a tizzy now, not sure what to take or what he might need. This could be very entertaining. I get the feeling that he thinks he will still have total access to the house and will take things "bag by bag" as needed. Won't he be surprised when he finds that his key won't work in the door after Wednesday. It's a very good thing that the sellers left a good deal of their (beautiful) furniture. I may go over and take a few things from the new house and bring them back here. After all, it is half mine, right?"
Hi NLT, I have been following your sitch as it so closely mirrors mine with my H (trips to see the OW, being forthcoming about his plans, the mental confusion) and am sorry to hear that your H is really moving. It sure shows his mental state that he is using paper bags to move his belongings. Do you really plan to change the locks, have you decided to give up standing for your marriage? Did your H's OW split up with her husband?
My H is planning a trip to Moscow in Sept to visit his Russian Tramp OW. She flew over here to New York for their first conjugal visit in March. I have been half hysterical about this, and spoke to my DB coach Chuck yesterday. I posted his advice on my thread yesterday, but will copy it here for you, as maybe it will help you some with dealing with your H and his own Tramp.
Chuck said that a MLCer will test his or her spouse, and knows just how to push their buttons over and over. He said to think back on previous R talks and other conversations, especially if the MLCer suddenly does or says something mean right after a positive interaction. We should note exactly what the MLCer said to push our buttons, and prepare to do something different than how the MLCer expects us to react after his nasty remark.
He said that the MLCer has decided exactly how things will go in his or her mind due to the rewriting of the marital history and previous Our-R talks. Having a positive interaction makes the MLCer feel vulnerable because it has stirred up positive feelings he did not expect to ever feel again.
Chuck asked me to give him some examples of times my H pushed my buttons, and I gave two -- the other day when H gave me a hug goodnight, and I hugged him back. H immediately said "good night sis." Chuck asked how I would have normally responded to something like this, and I said I would have been a bit petulant, and said something like "I'm your wife not your sister, H." Chuck said to be a little ray of sunshine instead, and be calm, kind, respectful and confident, and just say goodnight dear.
The other example was my H saying he's going to Moscow or telling me other good things about the Russian Tramp like she is better for him and she is truly is in love with him. Chuck said even though statements like these HURT, continue to be kind, respectful, calm and confident, my H EXPECTS a negative reaction.
Chuck said that the Tramp (or any other OP) is just a fantasy. If we say something negative about the MLCer's fantasy, he must defend the fantasy. So NEVER say anything negative, and even say something positive. I asked him for an example, and he suggested:
"I'm not happy you are in this relationship, but I can understand why you feel that way if she treats you so well." Or "Who can blame you? I don't like it, but who can blame you if you found someone who treats you like a prince?"
After a statement like this, since the MLCer has not been forced to defend his OP, he will be able to see her more clearly. Since the OP is generally a flawed crazy person herself, the OP is usually NOT treating the MLCer like a prince. So the MLCer will mentally compare how the OP treats him with what he deserves (prince-like treatment)."
Best of luck to you! You seem to have a great mental outlook on things.
Linda
Me 65, Ex 64 M 38 y 2 adult S, 4 G-Kids MLC 11/07 BD 12/09 D 3/14 Dating nice guy 7/14 Engaged to nice guy 12/17
Oh, my goodness...the old paper bag moving techniques. He'll probably take his underwear and socks and think that because he can only carry a little bit over he then can continue coming to your home and yes, slowly but surely sneak a few things out that you won't miss until later. I would suggest that you walk around and take note of your home. The items may not necessarily be expensive, but he will definitely take some things that you will miss when you go to use them again.
I'm sure he'll be coming back over and will be madder than an old wet hen that he can't get in. That's when you need to set a time for him to pick up the rest of his belongings, while you or someone is there.
Sure sounds a lot like my xh and Sting's h (many years ago).
Good luck!
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Linda, In many instances the locks have to be changed to ensure your privacy and also to ensure that your spouse doesn't come in while you are away and move valuable items from the home. It's not a matter of standing or giving up on your relationship, but a matter of setting a boundary about your home being your safe haven. Surely, her h isn't going to give her a key to his new place because he wants his privacy as well. Many will run away and not provide you w/an address or inform you where to send their mail. It's all about being private and having secrets.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Hahahaha Snodderly, you are too funny. Did your X use the paper-bag-moving-technique too? Yes, I can see now that it might be necessary for NLT to change the locks, and that it does not mean that she has stopped standing. Him sneaking over to steal all her stuff did not occur me, but I can imagine poor NLT looking all over for her measuring spoons or colander!
Don't laugh...it happened to me! He didn't use paper bags, but black garbage bags and it took him 8 trips to get them. While doing this, he had cooked up a scheme w/a co-worker to come to our home and help him move out furniture while I was at work. Luck may have it, I was fed up w/him coming there while I was at work taking the groceries that I had purchased, along w/soap, shampoo, body lotion, etc. and had contacted a locksmith to change not only the regular locks but the deadbolts as well. The day the guy called and left a message on my answering service, the locks had been changed and poor little Rip couldn't answer the phone. I called the guy back that night and informed him that Rip would not be moving any furniture out of our home and that he was to not call my number again as Rip would not be able to answer his calls. That night, I called ADT and had an alarm system put in.
Yes, it may sound funny, but it does happen and I did have it happen to me. It's not funny when you come home and discover the note pads, pens, soap, etc. are missing and you, yourself had just purchased them w/your own money. No, when they are nuts, you can't expect them to be honest...that's why you have to take care of yourself and your assets.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Hi Linda, Our situations are similar in many ways. Being honest about their feelings toward the ow and how they are feeling about life, their relationship with us is just one of them. My h calls his babbling his "stream of consciousness". If we listen closely, we also notice how those feelings change with the day, the weather or whatever else changes their mood. I get the feeling that some of those mood changes are related to "male menopause", a change in their hormones similar to what women go through at our age. Add childhood issues, MLC, lack of self esteem and you have one mixed up and out of control man!
I want to thank you for sharing what your DB coach Chuck said and the examples of how to respond to some of the nonsense and hurtful things that say. I loved the example of not speaking negatively about the ow and then using just a touch of reverse psychology. I plant little positive things into conversations that I have with my h too. He gets quiet, looks very thoughtful so I know he's gotten the message. Sometimes he'll come back a day or so later (after he's processed my comment) and will take the opposite view and then explain why he believes differently! Of course I agree with him and validate. Success!! I will know that my h is coming around when he realizes what I'm doing and calls me on it. LOL
I'm still a little unsure of where your h will be by Sept. That's nearly 3 months away and in the life of a person who is going through a MLC it seems like a lifetime. Just keep remembering how many times he's changed his mind about other things. He may change his mind about her as well. I do understand why you feel as you do about the tramp. She is trying to take something away from you that you have no control over right now. You see what she's up to but he doesn't. They try every trick in the book and then some to get what they want. Remember the reason why she is trying so hard. She wants a green card and once she has that, you h is history.
Take care and don't take your h's comments or actions too seriously. Doing that makes this just a little bit easier.
Me:57H:62 M:34T:35 2S,2D (grown nlah) BD:09/2012 visits M ow EA/PA?:10/2012 H moves out 06/2013
"Do not let the behavior of others destroy your inner peace." -Dalai Lama
Snodderly, I'm off to do some shopping and lunch with my daughter. I'll be back to comment and update in a few hours. Thanks for answering Linda's question about changing the locks.
Thanks for being here for all of us.
Me:57H:62 M:34T:35 2S,2D (grown nlah) BD:09/2012 visits M ow EA/PA?:10/2012 H moves out 06/2013
"Do not let the behavior of others destroy your inner peace." -Dalai Lama
Oh Snodderly I'm sorry I laughed at the thought of NLT's husband moving out his stuff bag by bag. You're right, it would be more than upsetting to have all of your stuff disappear. I'm glad you caught on to the steal-all-the-furniture-while-Snodderly-is-at-work scheme before he got a chance to implement it. Was he still in MLC at that point, or back to normal?
Linda, He was in full blown mlc. He's not any where near back to normal this very day. He's still acting like a teenager and he's 60 years old!
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
well that's discouraging. is there a chance he will ever come out? I have been reading lots of old threads, and the longest MLC I noticed was 7 1/2 years.
