You know, GM, that is a good question. On the one hand, I do - just by virtue of the fact that we are both trying to work on things and move forward after all of the hell we have been through. Yet on the other, she still refers to a lot of things from the past when we talk about where things are going.....hurts, times when she felt like she wasn't being listened to and so on. I really try to fight the urge to take those things on and sometimes I succeed and others I fail.
who said SHE feels forgiven? She sure resist a lot of introspection (at least in front of you.)
Maybe she does not feel forgiven or she isn't forgiving of herself and to still bring things up from the past about you, AND YET SAY
she just wants to "Be"...as she is now...
well, which is it?
She cannot have it both ways..."No working on ME ==but I want to whine some more about what YOU did"....
Am I missing something?
Notwithstanding, I feel that if I was TRULY forgiven these things would take their permanent place in the past. Forgiveness is a process and a series of choices made over time and it's NOT linear...that's all I can say. Although I also assume she wants to forgive you but without the tools....who knows?
I don't know how much revisiting is necessary. And, to be honest, sometimes her bringing up the past leads me to respond in kind. Not in an "in your face" manner, but I find myself explaining myself and my actions again.
25 - I am open to getting outside help. And I hope she is, too. However, during one of our talks she said "I just want to 'be'. I want to live where who I am, how I am is OK.....and not have prove anything to anyone or always reads books or see counselors". What do I do with that?? You SLOW WAY DOWN...that's what.
And she has to speak clearly about what she DOES want...but I can see her desire to not take the temp of the R too often.
Some of this is trial and error...
Crimson
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
what's up? She's in the house now so you hate us? Seriously, maybe posting here has to be a bit more delicate.
But we care and you're story is instructive.
NOT saying it's over or all done, but it IS instructive. Hope you are taking things slowly and that she does realize at some point, sooner rather than later,
you'll need NEW tools for problem solving.
Try Retrovaille, please....a workshop or retreat is going to help HER and you more than a MC who gets to hear the litany of past grievances again.
Both Essential Experience AND Retrovaille acknowledge the past BUT focus on what to do now, and from this day forward, to not repeat the mistakes. I honesty cannot see this working if you do not get new tools.
Do you? Does she?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
It's kinda liked you sensed something was going wrong today, 25 - and I am grateful for that. Posting has been harder with her living in the house - that is for sure, and I am especially sensitive to her previous statements that I spent too much time online.
Today has been a bad day....I guess I'll go into it.
Since she moved back in (still has her condo) I think communication has been more open and we have been aware of each other's feelings. We have discussed future plans, socialized gradually with old friends (couples, etc.) and tried to settle back in to what our "new" lives would be.
There have been some tough discussions (she referenced them as "arguments" today though there was no yelling, screaming, name-calling or anything - just addressing feelings and the tough stuff) that were necessary - but we were spending time to together and with our son and trying to create better habits.
All the while (typically after our discussions) she fell into sadness but would emerge from it and we would move on. She had been gradually moving things from her place back to here and is scheduled to finish her lease at the end of the month.
Recently, she had mentioned that there was part of her that was afraid to let go of her old place because for better or for worse in the wake of our problems she made it her "home" and it was hard to leave it behind. I validated that and said that I could understand how she felt that way.
Today she gave me a smooch and left for yoga. When she got back I took a nap. When I woke up she sat on the bed and said that she was feelings "anxious". I asked why and she basically said that she felt that by now she thought she would have all of her feelings back. She said she is very aware of the changes that I have made and that she appreciates them - just that her heart still feels closed on some level and that she is not willing to play family. I said that I heard her and that I think that where we are there is not "rapid" repair. I said that we not only went to the brink....we went over it and we are in the process of rebuilding everything. I said that I don't think that it is a quick process....we have been living together for about 2.5 months. And, over that time, I feel as though progress has been made....and I feel (felt?) that she did as well.
I also said that I believe that when this happens that couples like us experience the exact feelings she is having and they work through it. She then snapped back that I was calling her a "quitter" - and that was not my point at all.
She packed a bag and said that she and S would spend the night back at her place. She took some of her things back and said she wanted to set things up there for him first and left. She said her place was desolate since she was moving stuff back here for him.
We had plans to go out to dinner - the two of us - and let the neighbors watch our S. Don't think that is gonna happen tonight. I expect her back in a few hours to pick up S and leave. Then they both leave for Iowa for the week.
To be honest, I am heartsick thinking of the notion that I will have to be without my S again for long stretches of time again.....I has so gotten used to being full time dad again it crushes me to think of going back to where I was. And, naturally, if she means for this to be permanent I don't want to go back to missing her again.
I have no idea what I am doing here. Don't know what to do or how to act. Is this normal? Is she really gone for good or is this just a "bad day" or "bad week"? I am keeping together, but it feels like BD all over again in some respects.
I guess I just felt that things were going ok....not without difficulties.....but ok nonetheless.
How do you tell someone that what we are doing is difficult and takes time? Yes, I feel we do need help - I guess I was too edgy about brining it up because I didn't want her to think I was forcing things. How do I bring it up now? I feel like we just took a major step backwards. Feeling a little heartbroken. Is this normal? I have no point of reference here.
Just left with a bunch of his toys and a lot of her stuff. S told me "you can come to mommy's house later, ok? Is that a good idea?" - My heart is shattered for the day....I hope this is temporary.
I guess that is where my confusion kicks in -- I felt that we were making progress on communication and expressing feelings. At least in terms of simply putting things out there.
There were moments when I would share my feelings (like being afraid that she would pack up and leave again) and she would get upset....incidents like that are what she called "arguments" today. I told her I just don't see things like that as an argument. Rather, just things that are part of a larger, difficult discussion that we need to have. I never felt like we "argued" I was never angry....never mad....never really even defensive - that is a first.
I just don't get it I guess. Parenting was going better, S was/is adjusting and is good having ONE set of house rules, she was happy he was in a place where he could cry and scream and not p*ss off the neighbors. We were doing well adjusting to working as a team with regard to parenting. Sex was coming along nicely - neither forced nor awkward....it was actually better.
She noticed and spoke of changes....yet still took a big step backwards today. I felt as though slow, steady progress was being made. I just don't know what made her run today.
There were days when I knew that putting it all back together would be hard, but sometimes I felt as though she believed it would or should be easy. Often I felt as though if something became difficult she read it as being "forced" - she would often say she didn't feel a "flow" between us. I would think about it for awhile and then say that I thought it was because we were re-establishing exactly what that "flow" is.
I am trying to fall back on the notion that there is no linear progress in this process - and hope that she isn't slamming the door closed - but there is nothing I can do if she is.
You are right, she may be ill-equipped to make it through this with the skills that we have. We even talked about how a lack of some skills doomed us. Maybe she does need help - but how do you communicate that to someone in a manner that doesn't offend? How do I do that without making her feel like "the bad guy"? I always say "we" not "you"....I try not to put her on an island of "wrong" all by herself since I know that we both contributed to this.
I already miss my son and our bedtime routine tonight. Just gonna be a bad night I guess. That is the worst. I don't want to go back to part-time dad again, it would break my heart again after getting to enjoy it for the last 2.5 months. Not seeing that little face and getting those hugs and kisses again would be brutal.
Guess this is my first venting post since the piecing phase.....almost three months in, not a bad run I suppose.
Crim - based upon what you wrote it sounds like your Ex is scared and with the ending of her lease on the condo, her last place of escape is going to disappear. This is what seems to be spooking her.
Perhaps you could alleviate her anxiety by extending the lease for 6 months. Think about the message that would send to her in terms of you really showing that you are putting her feelings ahead of your own. I know covering for two households has got to be a drag on the finances, but if it helps you advance things, then it might be worth it.
As has been suggested, I really think you ought to discuss Retrouvaille with your Ex. You can bring it up in the context of you both needing new tools to help improve the relationship. Instead of being concerned about how she might perceive things, perhaps you should just be open with her and tell her how you are feeling about even broaching the topic because you don't want to come off as pushy. The honesty has got to count for something. Don't you think?
Meanwhile, keep working on the validation. I'm no expert but from what you write, it seems like you spend too much time explaining and not enough time listening, actively.
There is a humorous video out that to my mind illustrates exactly what women need in terms of validation. If you google "it's not about the nail" you will see the link to the short video.
Give it a shot. Good luck and hang in there!
Me51 W53 S17 S14 M22 T25 Bomb-9/11; A-11/11; I move out 11/11
It's easy to find our bottom, it is our top that requires cultivation.
Every rough spot adds to our emotional constitution. -Barney Fife
That's brutal, Crimson. I am sorry. From the sound of your story, she seemed to kind of just go off without reason. Perhaps she just isn't feeling the "feelings" that she was expecting, at least not fully or quickly enough. That could be scaring her I guess......I hope this is just a simple speed bump in the road. Keep up your great work, keep cool, keep calm and be supportive. You're a better man than you were before. She would be a fool to leave you now.
