I still like blue, what else?

[albamarie]

To be truly independent. I did but at an enormous personal cost. I learned I was as fallible as anyone else.

Portia ~ this is my greatest challenge, to become independent! Financial speaking, I am nowhere!

Just knowing that your fallible makes you very strong! I know I'm fallible, not sure about the strength. I resent that I am under him as a SAHM, I at least worked as a realtor, and now that is even not an option in this market.

I could make a decision today to at least walk away from him and start fresh somewhere else. That is very strong in me, I want to leave him, be alone, do for me, and decide on that D word from the other side. It's to weird while I'm in the thick of it here everyday w him.

thanks for reading, here's to wisdom and strength!

[nero]

hiya - i have to write and say i sure agree with all you've said. and feel what you feel. it's a sorry lesson isn't it-

oh well- i'm glad to hear someone also echo what dawn and i pretty much agree usually- that when the time is right- you'll know.

is this the sitting quietly and awaiting wisdom? this girl's still sitting quietly- getting noisy in the head tho-

oh well-

xxoo

[albamarie]

Here's what I think I did Sat night when H was patiently listening to me talk. I think I may have unconsciously sabotaged the good standing I was having w H. Lets see if this makes any sense: the last few weeks H has been nice, forthcoming, sharing, attentive, physical, aware, and sensitive to my needs. To me, it was becoming a little nauseating, and at one point when he left for work I was happy he was gone, and not to thrilled when he had returned.

I was reaching a point were it felt as if he was getting too happy, at one point he said I’m happy right now, and I believe I was getting resentful. Resentful, because I felt like a science experiment, like he was trying me, and my family, and our home on for size.

All the while he was still talking to crazy EA and trying to make plans to take on her eviction problems by almost signing for an new apt for her. Luckily he didn’t, but he did try to take on getting her a truck and moving her stuff to storage, and luckily that all didn’t happen either.

My point is he’s enjoying getting close to me, his dep was at bay, and he was making plans again for the house, while all the time I was feeling like there is no verbal commitment here, so wtf?

He can’t just try his life to see if it fits again and not put forth the effort to heal the wounds he created. Can he? Is this how it starts and that comes later? Or, should he be somewhat trying on accountability as much as he’s trying on the comforts of home.

It felt like he was accepting status quo, “I acted the way I did, so what, now I’m calm and you “need” my love anyway, so pass the ice cream and what movies playing.

When I spoke to him Sat, his calmness was unnerving, damit I’m not going to be just taken off a shelf and lets start were we left off. I told him what I want out of life now and he said, I don’t know if I can give you that, but then he said nothing changed as far as what we had, and our path in life.

Ha! MF! It’s all changed and your dragging a ball and chain w you that you expect me to ignore. I told him I had been thinking about if we were S and how I would move on. He said you don’t want to put another man in your life, why would you? I said that is exactly what “you’’ did and he was shocked to look at it like that, he said, oh, I guess I see your point.

He said you still have your life and future as it was, meaning he’s not leaving.

Sun thru today he has been in a complete backslide, deep dep, not eating, over eating, sleeping on the couch, gone, just gone. He said his spirit left him because he couldn’t help EA even get her stuff out, he’s a big failure here because he’s still not done w the kitchen, work, blah blah.

He said I am the only one who has the ability to drive out his evil spirit that gives him drive and leave him as he is now, I said it’s called dep, not an evil spirit that comes and goes. I said are you blaming me for your dep, he said it’s not you, your not doing or saying anything wrong, it’s when you make me face myself w your words of truth. How can I make you not speak the truth!

I tried to say we could work together on how he looks at his failures and his approach to life’s up and down’s, but all he says is he doesn’t want me in his darkness.

Should I have left him to his fun times or did he need to understand some of my reservations, some of my boundaries, regardless of how “he” chooses to take it. I was just getting a little too smothered here. It didn’t help that he gave EA his backstage credentials and got caught w his name attached the same night he’s trying to tell me life is the same.

This backslide of his, is this normal, he’ll bounce back again, is this part of the whole process?

[nero]

dawn-


HOLY COW- I CANOT believe what i am reading in your post.

My point is he’s enjoying getting close to me, his dep was at bay, and he was making plans again for the house, while all the time I was feeling like there is no verbal commitment here, so wtf?

WTF INDEED????????? I AGREE

He can’t just try his life to see if it fits again and not put forth the effort to heal the wounds he created. Can he? Is this how it starts and that comes later? Or, should he be somewhat trying on accountability as much as he’s trying on the comforts of home.

I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER- THEY APPARENTLY CAN BECAUSE WE ARE WHO WE ARE AND WE'RE TRYING TO DO WHAT WE ARE??? is it that?

THAT was a big part of my message- i don't like lying about this- i AM NOT accepting this as my life hence forth- it is not OKAY and it never will be... (this doesn't bother him a bit- or worth commenting on)....

i get "stung" by his indifference -

i just got off phone with h- he hadn't called on the weekend (for me to ignore - but know he tried) and it was pissing me off. we had a long "chat" - which he calls "yelling at him" but i view more like well, you made your bed - lie in it. take the flack that comes with your decisions. i bite it back soooo much and soooo continually -wtf

so after he told me i'm saying the same old stuff and he didn't need to be "yelled at" (believe me- i did not yell- i did not accuse - i merely said i'm finding it an impossible situation and if he cannot use his words to convey what i am to him in life (something? anything?) and that this sitch is not OKAY

he said if i came down to fla - and i was welcome anytime i wanted to- but know that he would leave from time to time to go be with her. (this makes me want to puke - of course) i merely said i'll have to thnk aobut it.

SHOULD I go and just let him come and go and be uncomfortable or whtever he feels about it????? should i avoid it like the plague????? (ANYONE WITH A COMMENT- I'LL LISTENT TO)

I WONDER if forcing my presence is a good thing or somehow beneficial - or being gone like we are is better - this is where the whole "strategy" thing eludes me. i get the keep yourself to yourself and make him "want" the old you....

i don't know if that applies here. because it's me- it seems "different" - maybe it is the same as everyone else dealing with this mlc insanity??? OR - because of the 2 houses- is it different and i SHOULD be shoving myself into our old life and making my presence felt- how pleasant a living companion i am (my take of course) - see how nutty it feels???

no matter what i say- no matter how calm or outrageous- he does not deny or confirm.

if i ask a specific queston he will answer- when i point out he said "expect all lies" and it's hard to know what i've got in that answer - he doesn't respond.

DAWN- I AM AT THE SAME PLACE AS YOU THIS MORNING - the frustration if killing me- the bs - the impossibility of finding the "bottom line" - mIT'S SOOO DARN CREEPY- i'm sooo darn tired of this junk- i am soo at a loss what to do and what to think and feel -

“I acted the way I did, so what, now I’m calm and you “need” my love anyway, so pass the ice cream and what movies playing.

the notion that we (supposedly) need to COINTINUE "HAVING FAITH" IN SOMETING in the face of these guys- their inability to let go of whatever it is they have with someone else- that hurts us- their "not seeing" what the heck it does to us- or not caring- and somehow somehow we're supposed to be able to deal with that til what? our heads explode- i even had enough sleep- and right now- i think my head will explode.

it's soooo insane- now that i'm off the phone- i want to just run away forever and lick my wounds and be done with it all. i don't feel the same about him- i care on some wierd level- in some wierd way- even if it's a stupid addiction- i thnk it is..... i think this is where you go get brain washed in an expensive clinic and hope it "sticks" and you can go "outside" and kick it on your own.

i know i'm just an average person- i cannot imagine how we "kick" something like this on our own. without some other lover in our life somewhere helping us get beyond - ??? you too????????? I KNOW- I'M LOOKING FOR AN EASY WAY OUT

i like what i thought my life and r was with him- it apparently isn't. it's something (like cigaretts) that is killing me- spiritually and physically- while i'm thinking it's something i NEEEED in my life and something that must give me some lift or boost or something positive(ithink)

it's all i can think. today i'm seeing it as something sooooo desireable (someone to love in my life- a life shared with someone) and yet SOOOO TOXIC (with him) - AND I'M an adult- with a brain- and i see it and yet i am not SAVING MYSELF FROM IT-

i know this is no time to begin bashing myself. i'm the only one between me and him and this poisonous sitch... hence- i get the blame & responsibility

I am actually having a mind to finding that -

left for a minute and can't remember what i was going to find- level of brain dishevelment here-

HEEESSLLLLLLLLLLPPPPPPPPPP....

WISH I could scream it out my windows and have someone come save me- who in the world could save me? nobody huh???

bad feeling that

When I spoke to him Sat, his calmness was unnerving, damit I’m not going to be just taken off a shelf and lets start were we left off. I told him what I want out of life now and he said, I don’t know if I can give you that, but then he said nothing changed as far as what we had, and our path in life.

JEEESUS DAWN - (I am imploring the lord's help here - not being disrespectfull btw) ME TOO this amazing crap and crap attitude EXACTLY..... WHAT is wrong with these guys heads anbd hearts???? how can they be soooo detached & cold?? and self involved.

my h doesn't even want to take me off the shelf - he is perfectly happy being who he is- doing what he's doing- no intention of ever changing one thing- i want to scream- not even cry- scream loudly - somet hing- don't even know what-

Ha! MF! It’s all changed and your dragging a ball and chain w you that you expect me to ignore. I told him I had been thinking about if we were S and how I would move on

my h said he assumes sooner or later i will meet someone else- get a different life and blow him off- he's perfectly good with that , tho he would prefer we know each other still.... wtf dawn???? why would he say it and feel it- why would he wait around - he denies WANTING to force me to run away and end it. he expresses surprise and (what?) hurt that i say he is merely sitting there forcing me to get to hate him (more) - somehow he has some problem with that statement. i say, what does he think he's doing and emotions producing in me????? total rejection & indifference sends the message - i am done here- go away- go find some other life- and yet he doesn't think i should "hate" him....

he criticizes my extreme notion it's got to be love or hate. i point out- it was love- i will not be his sister or friend- i had an r that was one thing and i liked it- I don't want to be just someone casual in his life.

I am so sorry to hear you are in the present sitch feeling as you do and him being how he is.

i can totally relate- perhaps in the universe they are dopplegangers or someting?

i feel your pain- i'm more sorry than you can know to thnk of someone else feeling what i am feeling- i hope you're okay-

when i hear you- i think - you loved someone as nuts as mine. i don't know the answer for us- i see the memories- i feel the attraction (of old life & feelings).

i think, with such sorrow you cannot imagine, that they are killing it all- and nothing can survive this kind of destruction. someday you and i will be a memory to them- and they will have destroyed the best thing in our lives and their own. my h certainly does not see or appreciate this sentiment-

i think it's true.

I tried to say we could work together on how he looks at his failures and his approach to life’s up and down’s, but all he says is he doesn’t want me in his darkness.

i am not welcome in my h's sitch either- it's not his darkness - i think it's his new mind set- i cannot imagine it going away- he is such a stubborn and block-headed person. much like me (my conviction this dope loves me and cannot even (EVER - SADLY) know it for what it is or save it-) i feel (well, confused and i think like you) wtf...

so- he says "it does not amuse him to cause me pain" he sayd "you can live in the nj house til you die- you don't have to be afraid of being homeless". wtf dawn???

DAWN- WE ARE SOOOOOO IN THIS swirling toilet going down - i hope you are in a waaay better place than me- THAT YOU TALKED - that i talked- honestly- i don't think YOU BLIW IT - I DON'T REALLY THINK I BLEW IT- I HONESTLY THINK - it didn't matter. we were a fly buzzing their head- they flicked us away- it is REALLY all about them-

your h can admit he loves you - loved yo- whatever. mine is such a messed up - fearful- repressed mess i think he can never ever ever get to his inside bottom line (maybe ever again) -

today- .

Should I have left him to his fun times or did he need to understand some of my reservations, some of my boundaries, regardless of how “he” chooses to take it. I was just getting a little too smothered here. It didn’t help that he gave EA his backstage credentials and got caught w his name attached the same night he’s trying to tell me life is the same.

i think your h may have more sentiment and "skill" with communication than mine (or more compassion - call it what you wil) your sitch is so same as mine- i hate to think of you squirming there like i am- i sense you are- i am truly sorry i have no answer for either of us.

perhaps - it's like soooo many people say- it will be five years after we're alll long gone out of each other's lives before they realize what they've lost and what they've done.

as long as they sense that we care- that we are "there" - they will play us- they don't even know that is what they are doing (no malice??? - )(hard to imagine that but...) - they cannot get into our hearts and will not take the responsibility to try- it's toooo easy tyo hgratify themselves-

today- no hope for me- but relieved not to be homeless-

i hope you're okay- i can't even bring myself to say hang on-

((( ))) xxoo - do you see some light still or what? i don't know if i'll make it- you sound like you still have the strength and desire to deal with it so yay you- i'll try one more day tho- you're inspiring me a bit ...

[nero]

sorry man- had trouble turning the faucet off... once it got on.

[albamarie]

I know you have no answers, your in this at the same pace as me!

We are seekers of answers, or at least a light shed of understanding! That's why I read....I read a lot and try to imagine its pertaining to my sitch!

H has me in my own limbo weighing out do I want the nice guy who offers nothing else, or the dep guy that offers nothing!

That's why I say I'm done either way! I don't know if it's wrong, it's just easier!

[Portia]

Hey Dawn and Nero,

Dawn - I have absolutely no doubt that you are independent and strong. Not financially yet - but you could be! Anyone who has lived with such a bizarro MLCer can do anything! No wonder you are frustrated - he is putting his survival ON YOU. He is making you feel as if you had some control over his well being and that is absolutely not fair....and not true. The responsibility for him is him. Which is a lesson totally lost on those in MLC. The worst part is that they have to learn it for themselves. We cannot hit them over the head with something, sadly.

Nero, I wish I could give your H a good swift kick. Inviting you to FL and telling you he would go spend time with OW? Next time I saw his suitcase, I douse it with itching power right over his jockey shorts. Having compassion does not mean you can't have a little fun

[nero]

hey portia-

speaking of "fun" i suppose i could always call up his ow- tell her in my best lying earnest fashion that he is dying to marry her and it's only his insecurity and inability to speak that is stopping him. she should really "pour it on" and convince him of something he desperately wants... but is to screwed up to broach-

that could be funny - couldn't it???

i know, - it's soooo awful to think about - these screwed up guys workin really hard to destroy the happiness of perfectly nice women who loved them.. what can one even say?

everyone always says no one has a perfect life- without pain and conflict, etc.

i keep telling me that this is my "turn" for the downside of life. i shudder to think if it had happened when i was alot younger. i'd have been more resilient or marketable maybe- but then i'd have spent more years being icky and suspicious as fallout. no justice.

on good days i wonder what the exciting and adventurous conclusion of our journey will be? five years from now- all of us- any of us - sipping pina colatas with new loves - smelling the roses across the yard - cooking cookies, watching movies- raking the lawn - cold noses - just someone to share day to day little pleasures with- fingers crossed for humanity

thanks for being out there and weighing in-

every little bit of contact and input helps.

i guess we'll all get thru it all - one way or the other- fingers crossed.

xxo

[nero]

one thing-

maybe i failed to tow the line with the DB PHILOSOPHY: so:

I was reaching a point were it felt as if he was getting too happy, at one point he said I’m happy right now, and I believe I was getting resentful. Resentful, because I felt like a science experiment, like he was trying me, and my family, and our home on for size.

All the while he was still talking to crazy EA ...

My point is he’s enjoying getting close to me, his dep was at bay, and he was making plans again for the house, while all the time I was feeling like there is no verbal commitment here, so wtf?

in my own obsessive way- i neglected to say to you - wouldnt mwd and the book and dbing advise that you ( & me) should be riding along with this as best you can- that it was a good thing that he was tentatively approaching you and a return to your normal life?

aren't we "supposed to swallow:" such treasonous feelings in the face of your h's attitude and actions and keep your own feelings quiet - inside and not allow them to sabotage any "progress" he was making? i'm just sayin- i don't want to be guilty of ignoring your query - or not urging you along in what we're both (perhaps still) engaged in. dbing

i'd say if we're dbing- we're both supposed to be takin this junk in stride - not goin nuts and assumng they're still workin their way thru their journey- keep pleasant and detached and neutral.

okay- duty done i think. idk dawn -i'm allover the place. xxoo good luck

[albamarie]

Dawn - No wonder you are frustrated - he is putting his survival ON YOU. He is making you feel as if you had some control over his well being and that is absolutely not fair....and not true. The responsibility for him is him. Which is a lesson totally lost on those in MLC. The worst part is that they have to learn it for themselves. We cannot hit them over the head with something, sadly

I am soo thankful for this note, Poria! I think I have always known this, but for someone to pick up on this just from my writing shows me I am in deep. He thinks of me as some kinda angel who's innocent and always kind, his safe haven! Those are his words!

He want's mommy to let him out to play, pat his head and say, come home when your done, I'll have dinner ready and you will be safe!

He said, you can help me with my journey when I ask, but don't ask why I need your help?

It all too much and for what I say! I pray...I don't criticize...I look at him w doe eyes as he speaks, and I go about my life.

I hope good things are going your way, Portia, you are a very sweet person!

<3 dm