things went south

[lovethehub]

I can't say what the "norm" is but I, personally, recommitted to my M while two of my friends, one my BESTIE, were having A's.

[labug]

With the rate of divorce being what it is in this country, it would be difficult to be in any social or family circle and not find someone who is getting a divorce, just got a divorce or is divorced, male and female.

[BC39]

A sincere thanks to everyone who posted over the weekend.

Bond. Man, I can't even tell you how much I appreciate your advice. I was just about to get home Friday night and W was about to leave for her sisters when I read your reply on my phone at the side of the road. I've been so emotional the last few days I couldn't think straight and your reply helped more than you know going into the convo with my wife when I got home.

I understand and agree with every point you made.

"Then we got that text Monday night from OMW and W reverts back to "things aren't going well, I'm still not attracted to you". Its almost like she's running away because of possible guilt and fear."

It's a little of that AND the fact that you confronted her about it. You seem to pass it off like it wasn't a big deal, when it's big to her. She's still in the phase of not knowing what she wants. So she's trying any option EXCEPT one that includes you. You are going to have to hold off on accusing her or confronting her about anything because that's when her guard shoots back up again.

I agree completely. My reaction was due to an unfortunate miss understanding with OMW . To clarify; OMW initial message gave me the impression that W sent OM a topless picture of herself. My W promised after BD last year that she didn't do anything like that. So after I received that text from OMW I went into that convo with W wondering what else she hasn't told the truth about leading up until now. It turns out after speaking to OMW further later that evening that it wasn't a topless picture, she was fully clothed.

W and I resolved this ^^^^over the weekend.

We had a long talk. It's was probably the most honest and forthcoming talk we've had in a very long time. We both still want to work on the M. I will post all the details shortly.

[BC39]

I'll do my best to recall the main points of our conversation.

I told her text I got from OMW last week was a mistake from last year and it wasn't her fault that it had to come up again now. She said she appreciated that but understood fully why it made me upset and apologized I had to deal with it again. I told her I wanted to move on and not let that (EA) effect us moving forward.
She seemed to appreciate that.

W still isn't feeling the attractiveness for me. She figured its been a couple years. She feels like were best friends, but can't help but look at other couples that have "that spark" and be jealous. She thought it had never come natural to us and its possible we've never had it.
I validated and said she could be right, but said tomorrow's a new day and I want the same thing.

I said I thought it would be easier to try to find what we wanted in each other rather trying to find someone new.
She agreed.

I explained that she'd been waiting for feelings to come back she hadn't really worked on them. I told her she needs to communicate what she needs out of this marriage so I can try to fulfill them.
She agreed.

I explained I thought we'd always had too much surface conversation. We never talk about the important things. Ie What do you want in your life? What's your vision of happiness? How would you explain your ideal partner? We never talk about stuff like this.
She agreed.

I told her I thought one of the reasons her feelings changed was because of my anxiety/panic disorder. Over the years its made me passive and its effected some of my confidence. I was never like that before. I said I've recognized that more recently and I understood how she could have lost some respect for me, but I'm looking to change it. I said please don't mistake my passiveness for a lack of self respect.
She didn't agree or disagree, but I could tell she agreed.

We talked about her EA. I said I was worried she's still thinking about the feeling she got from that. She said she fully understood.

I said I still believe in the woman I fell in love with and the couple we can be, even though neither of us have been at our best. I said tomorrow's promised to no one. I said I used to think that abut us and I think that was one of the reasons I got complacent and took her for granted at times.

We got interrupted by S5, but afterward W came over, gave me a long hug and said "thanks, I feel really great about that talk"

[BC39]

I just sent W the 5 Love Languages quiz. She texted me and said "I got the link you sent me :)". "Do I answer the questions with how I feel now or what my ideal would be?"

I thought her ideal would be what we wanted and then maybe we could talk about how her answer would have differed to what she's feeling now to see where we need to get to.

"Words of affirmation" was first (9) followed closely by quality time (8).

I used to be terrible at words of affirmation. Its only been since BD I realized how bad it was.

I think "Quality Time" is what she was referring to when she said "should I be answering how I feel now, or what my ideal would be". Because quality time right now is obviously an issue for us because of the way she's feeling.

I'm going to suggest she read the 5 LL book as well.

Any other books one would suggest to try to regain an emotional connection and attraction to a marriage to a spuse who isn't sure they can get it back?

[MrBond]

"To clarify; OMW initial message gave me the impression"

See? Gave you the "impression". No. YOU came up with an assumption on your own which turned out to be wrong.

"I told her text I got from OMW last week was a mistake from last year and it wasn't her fault that it had to come up again now."

You shouldn't tell her that it wasn't her fault that it came up again. She has to own up to what she did. You can say that you're sorry it came up again, but don't ever say it's not her fault.

"I told her I wanted to move on and not let that (EA) effect us moving forward.
She seemed to appreciate that."

Of course. Because she didn't have to accept any responsibility for it. Don't be so quick to say you forgive her about things.

"W still isn't feeling the attractiveness for me. She figured its been a couple years. She feels like were best friends, but can't help but look at other couples that have "that spark" and be jealous."

That shows how naive your W's thinking is. Even the couples that "appear" happy don't get to that point without work. You will get out of it what you put into it.

"She thought it had never come natural to us and its possible we've never had it.
I validated and said she could be right,"

I can't stress this enough...DON'T EVER VALIDATE THE IDEA THAT SHE HAS THAT YOU WERE NEVER IN LOVE. You can validate her feelings, but don't justify her behavior. That's all part of the script.

"I said I thought it would be easier to try to find what we wanted in each other rather trying to find someone new."

Don't say something like this again. It makes it sound like she's the "easy" option.

"I explained that she'd been waiting for feelings to come back she hadn't really worked on them. I told her she needs to communicate what she needs out of this marriage so I can try to fulfill them."

No. See you're feeding into the things that SHE wants. Again, the problem is that YOU can't make her happy. She has to be happy with herself in the relationship. It's not your responsibility to "make" her happy. The more she believes this, the harder it's going to be to reconcile because she's going to keep looking at you to make her happy rather than her being happy herself and want to be there for you. The minute she feels you don't "make her" feel happy, she'll leave you again.

"She agreed."

Of course she's going to agree to this because you shifted all the responsibility back onto yourself.

"I told her I thought one of the reasons her feelings changed was because of my anxiety/panic disorder. Over the years its made me passive and its effected some of my confidence. I was never like that before. I said I've recognized that more recently and I understood how she could have lost some respect for me, but I'm looking to change it. I said please don't mistake my passiveness for a lack of self respect.
She didn't agree or disagree, but I could tell she agreed."

You're mindreading again. She told you before that it wasn't a reason, but you keep insisting that you "know" what she's thinking. You don't. Let her be the one to open up to you by creating a safe environment. If she starts opening up a little at a time, then she'll tell you what she's insecure about.

"I said I still believe in the woman I fell in love with and the couple we can be, even though neither of us have been at our best."

There you go again. You're talking about the both of you. She might think that she was always at her best. Don't speak for her.

"I said tomorrow's promised to no one. I said I used to think that abut us and I think that was one of the reasons I got complacent and took her for granted at times."

Taking her for granted is the main reason.

"We got interrupted by S5, but afterward W came over, gave me a long hug and said "thanks, I feel really great about that talk""

It's a start, but don't enable her.

[BC39]

Thanks Bond, I've gone over each reply ^^^^ numerous times so the messages sink into my head.

[BC39]

Found this on another thread. Having points broken down like this is very helpful to me.

Most important skills:
1) Validating a person's feelings rather than their actions
2) Making change that makes YOU a better person rather than doing it as a ploy to get the other person back.
3) GAL so you are a stronger and more interesting person
4) Learning about the dynamics of men and women relationships
5) Patience

On a side note...in regards to #4. Amongst many other things over the last year I recently read "Married Man Sex Life Primer" by Athol Kay. Are you aware or know much about this book? It has interesting points of the Alpha/Beta dynamic in a relationship, which I believe I need to be cognoscente of in my sitch. But I think it pushes the boundaries of being an ***hole, and it certainly has some contrasting opinions to DB.

Anyone have any thoughts on this book?

[AnotherStander]

Are you aware or know much about this book?

It does get discussed here from time to time. It's usually abbreviated here as MMSLP.

It has interesting points of the Alpha/Beta dynamic in a relationship, which I believe I need to be cognoscente of in my sitch. But I think it pushes the boundaries of being an ***hole, and it certainly has some contrasting opinions to DB.

Exactly right. Keep in mind the writer is just an average Joe that blogs about the subject, he is not a professional counselor or anything. He does make some interesting points and offers some good tips, but there's some garbage mixed in there as well.

[MrBond]

"Amongst many other things over the last year I recently read "Married Man Sex Life Primer" by Athol Kay."

You do understand that he isn't a professional and that he says that he is in a great marriage and hasn't had to deal with an MLC or PA or anything like that. I would read things like "Ten Stupid Things Couples Do to Mess Up Their Relationships", "Project Happily Ever After", Love Languages, His Needs/Her Needs among others.