A plan of action...vet advice needed

[jp787]

[quote]

I believe it's the "timing" of the WAW and LBH that is so off. By the time she's done and ready to walk away from the M, he gets his wakeup call. Her interest & energy is tanked, while his just starts.

So, it's not that she was never interested in working on the M, but she was interested when you weren't. Now, you are interested while she's not.

Again, This is dead on and I can see it all so clearly now.

I say this in all seriousness, Sandi... You have the gift to write well and a deep knowledge of this subject, I think if you were to write a book, even an ebook it would not only sell, but help so many people before and after the fact.

Just sayin...

[SemperFi00]

Sandi2, love the perspective, time and wisdom that you graciously share with all here on the board.

Even though at times I am sure individuals are frustrated (and maybe not ready to hear the comments). Myself included in that....

I am sure one of the questions on everyone's minds at this point is....

"Ok, I have admitted what my faults were in this M and continue to work on making myself the best option that I can be...... If my W still seems to be somewhere in the WAW/MLC journey, what else could possibly create a change of heart......"

Thanks again for all you do for those at this board....

[lovethehub]

"Ok, I have admitted what my faults were in this M and continue to work on making myself the best option that I can be...... If my W still seems to be somewhere in the WAW/MLC journey, what else could possibly create a change of heart......"

Time.

It took almost 2 years before I was back in. I don't know the dynamics of your M but here some things my H did that I believe prolonged my lack of interest in truly restoring our M:

- Blamed me for everything, all conversations started at my A, never anything that happened prior

- Ignored me for years and suddenly wanted to bring me coffee, go out with me, give me hugs. Everything I had asked for over the course of our M but was no longer interested in

- Wanted to go to MC when I had asked for years and he wouldn't go

- Prior to A, never wanted to talk about anything. After A, wanted to talk about EVERYTHING. I couldn't stand it.

This is why DBing works so well. You apologize and then you give them the space they need to work through their feelings. Your spouse is very hurt from whatever has happened in your M (I will catch up on your story tonight). She most likely feels "why now?" and "too late". It doesn't mean it is.

Apologize for your part, let her know that you understand what you did wrong and why you believe she feels the way she does. That you wish you had understood prior and, when she is ready, you would like to show her that you truly get it. Let her know you want the M to work and you are ready to talk when she is.

Then give her space.

[SFC_Swede]

But a WAW does not seem to have the drive to save the M, where the LBS does.

I will get back to Swede in a minute, but wanted to inject this while it was fresh on the brain. As a WAW myself, I felt that I had worked very hard over the years to improve my M. In fact, I often felt I was the only one who was. I would always be the one to start a R talk (or talk about anything of any depth much), and I would try to tell my H what was lacking in the M and what I needed. But after so many years of not seeing any changes from him, I just started giving up (in a sense). I was depressed and lonely. My energy for the MR was pretty much shot.

I believe it's the "timing" of the WAW and LBH that is so off. By the time she's done and ready to walk away from the M, he gets his wakeup call. Her interest & energy is tanked, while his just starts.

So, it's not that she was never interested in working on the M, but she was interested when you weren't. Now, you are interested while she's not.

I too see this vividly clear now. Because the one thing she harped on me about, I disappointed her time and again. And everytime I broke that trust, I lost a piece of her until it finally snapped in April.

Then of course, I broke rules 1 through 16 and just made things worse. It took a month just for her to start talking to me again. I just get mixed signals...like when she invited me to go to the movies the other night...but otherwise, completely shut out emotionally and physically.

Thank you all agin for following my thread.

[PatientMan]

Probably the hardest thing to do is "act" happy, and upbeat around her. She is looking amazing...and working out like she has a prize fight in two weeks. So its hard to see her, and not feel depressed.

I'm sure it must be very difficult for you, but please understand that a WAW is a different creature from the girl you M. The girl you M was in love with you. Your WAW no longer feels in love with you. Your bride wanted you to fill her up emotionally. The woman you have now feels emotionally dead to you. You used to be all she thought about and she wanted to please you. Somewhere, that faded away. She wanted you to compliment her when you thought she looked great. Now, it kind of irks her to hear it from you. She admired and respected you as a man, But she has neither for you now. She wanted to be with you sexually. But now she no longer desires you.

Even when PT is not the primary LL, people in love still want to be touched by their S. People who have a high drive may still have sex with their S, but the in-love feelings aren't there. People on the board have different opinions about having sex with a WAS. If there was always a healthy sex life in the M......who knows? But if she wasn't the one who usually initiated, IMHO I would have to say she isn't interested. "Most" WAW's feel completely "done" with the M. Once done.....she feels that's it. Can't go any further with it, and won't try.

She doesn't get to that point overnight. The WAW feels very unhappy, neglected, and lonely for a long time. The H may say it's not true, but it's her feelings and it's how she remembers it (right or wrong). She feels "empty" and then she begins to feel "dead" inside.

When she feels dead, she's in an extremely vulnerable position. B/c the first male who says just the right words to make her feels special, makes her feel pretty, or young & sexy.....she is in danger of stepping into an emotional realm that will thrive on her emotions. The more ego food she gets, the stronger the emotional fantasy.....and pretty soon, you've got a monster who has replaced the girl you M.

Yes, she will start looking really good! She'll work out, dress in younger looking clothes, change her hair, wear more make-up, and some start hitting the party life. (That's why I personally think she has another man's attention....or is looking.) I mean, you have to ask yourself why is she suddenly doing this (especially when she's so obviously disinterested in her H). And if there isn't a "why", then you have to ask yourself who. It is usually a who that sets off the ego spark in a woman (who has felt dead for a long time). Once she feels that little spark, she sees there's life after death, and she's not about to give it up.

Now, your nature will want to do all those things you should have done a long time ago. But you see, she doesn't want you to do it now. In fact, if you try to do it now, it will backfire and make her pull away quicker than ever. That brings me back to the touching. Some DB coaches have advised certain folks to do a little touch to see the response. Depending on that particular stitch. But it sure doesn't happen in all cases! B/c the WAW is no longer attracted to her H, and she no longer desires his attention, compliments, or touches. In fact, she goes to the extreme the other direction from her old self. It seems anything he does simply turns her off, and that's why anything that resembles romantic intentions will get you bad results. And each time a LBH tries that route, she has to show him that she's serious about ending the M, b/c she thinks you aren't accepting it.

Get as much information as you can about the WAW, otherwise you will be completely defenseless.

Btw, I was once a WAW. This board saved my M. The DBing program is really designed for the S who wants to save the M. I was an exception b/c I really didn't have the desire to save it when I first came here, but I knew I was in trouble and needed guidance.

So, there is hope for you. Don't give up. You will have to learn to think differently about your R with your W, if you want go save this M. So, listen carefully to the advice given on the board. Also, don't try to pick and choose from various programs b/c it will be very confusing.

Sandi2, I was a WAW and I could have written that (if I were as articulate as everyone on here is!), it is so true.

I was dead inside, someone gave me attention and I had an A. I was actually pi**ed when my H wanted to work things out because I thought "Seriously, I tried for years and you had no interest and now that I am finally happy again you want to work it out?" I didn't want to give up the happiness I had found and every thing he did repulsed me. I couldn't stand when he touched me, sex was something I suffered through and everything he did to be nice seemed fake. Even the things that seemed genuine made me think "Why now? Why didn't you do this when I asked you to? TOO LATE BUDDY"

Be careful how you deal with your WAW, by trying to show her what you know now you should have been doing all along, you may drive her away permanently.

Thank you both. You probably don't realize how much it helps to hear your perspective.

-PM

[sandi2]

Swede, if you have digested yesterday's post, then you are probably wondering what to do now. Unfortunately, I can tell you more of what not to do, but I'll try to help if I can.

When a H finds himself in this stitch, he wants to be proactive in getting the M back on track. Most of what you will hear from the board will sound as if we are discouraging the LBS from doing that completely. But the truth is that you have to take a different plan from what your natural self tells you to do.

I suggest you start here with this plan of "action". First, do a lot of soul searching and evaluating yourself in the mirror. Take note of how you have changed since she M you. It will be tempting to argue how much she has changed also, but you must not look at her. After your self evaluation, list the ways you could change to improve. Granted, we can't be exactly like we once were in youth, beauty, etc., but we can do a lot to get that person back again. If that guy showed up tonight, would she recognize him? I bet she would.
I know that would be a tall order for many people who've been M for a while, so you may need to set some personal goals to help your improvement.

Perhaps this is not what you want to hear, and I'm sure it wasn't what you expected when you first came here. However, to be very blunt....she isn't in love with who you are now. She may fall back in love with the man you once were, or if you become even better....but that's the only hope you have in saving your M.

There is one factor you must bear in mind at all times about your WAW. She does not respect you. If she did, she wouldn't want to leave you. She cannot feel in love with you if she doesn't respect you as a man. We women are just wired that way!

The second factor to remember as you go through this journey....do not have ANY expectations! You will, and may not realize it, until somebody points it out. That happens when the LBS is getting too obsessed or out of balance in his quest to bust the D. I guess that sounds pretty crazy, but you'll see what I mean as you go along. Just try not to have expectations of her. B/c you can't control her (which you'll hear often on here), and b/c she won't respond to you like she once did. Therefore, if you say anything or do anything in order to receive certain expectations....you will more than likely be disappointed. I tell LBH's they set themselves up for disappointment by having any degree of expectations of the WAW. You are the only one that can handle it.

One thing that might help is to not look for the old wife to show up. Don't do or say things thinking you'll snap her out of her fog, b/c you won't. I know you're going to, everyone does, but eventually you see it doesn't work. The more you try, the more pain you will have b/c it's another form of expectations.

The "plan" is to be "cool". No pressure on her whatsoever. Which is very difficult to H's b/c almost everything from him is pressure to her. Therefore, you make the decision that you're going to be happy in life with or without her. Then you proceed. Yes, it's hard. But again, it's the only way.

Being cool is not being mad. It's not pouting or feeling sorry for yourself. That's why a lot of H's have problems understanding giving the W space. They confuse it with being angry, in a bad mood, etc. But you're the guy who is too cool to act that way. Remember how cool acting you had to be back in the days of dating (or wanting to date... a particular girl? Cool guys don't smother, persist, chase, beg, whine, and act pitiful. Remember what the other lady said about how she could find her H repulsive? You don't want to give your W reason to agree with that statement!

A cool guy is oozing with confidence! Gosh, that's attractive to a woman! Does your self confidence need some update? Maybe your appearance needs a little update as well, IDK, but it doesn't hurt to check.

Notice how a cool guy has a certain charm? Almost like he's having fun with everything he does and with everyone he's around. People like being around that type of person. He's fun and causes them to feel good being around him. He makes it seem so easy, doesn't he.....as if he didn't have a worry in the world. As hard as it may seem, you really need to practice being as much that way as possible during these dark days. Now, I'll warn you, she may think you are not taking her seriously, and try to reinforce what she's already said, but in the long run of things, it's still the better route to take than the alternative.

A few more tips in your daily family stuff is to keep things as "light" as possible when you are with the W and son. Avoid any bait that will trap you into a R talk or fight....with either one of them. Not knowing their personalities, if you can play and have a good time, then great, and if not then have it by yourself. Listen to happy or inspirational music,but none of those downers that will having you crying in your soup. When watching movies, don't watch stuff that's sad or about romance b/c that's just asking for awkwardness and probably more pain for you. When having the opportunity for family outings, make the most & enjoy them. Heck, maybe you can even create some good times. However, since there are no small children (which are often a good excuse for some events), it may be more difficult not to appear as pushing.

When with friends and relatives, if you start getting hung up on what others may know or what they may be thinking....you won't enjoy anything when around them. Which leads me to something else. Don't share this with any of them. Don't pull them in on the stitch.

I'm not a fan of FB b/c it has been a tool in hurting a lot of M's. I know it's the people that uses it, right? Still, I would encourage you to try to stay off your W's FB b/c it will be like a knife cutting you every time you check it out. People sound like they are back in junior high school when talking about their S's FB.

Don't start trying to do all the household chores, cook all the meals, etc., thinking it helps your cause. It doesn't. It will just make her mad b/c she'll see right through it. And please don't be one of these men who declare they are doing it "because they want to", or doing it for themselves. A lot of men tackle projects their W's have tried to get them to do for years (like painting the garage, or something), but just bear in mind that it doesn't get you any brownie points with her. That's another one of those "why now" she'll ask herself.

Many men suddenly find that they don't want to GAL b/c they just want to be around the WAW. They pass it off as just being homebodies or loving to be with the kids, when they didn't have any problems working and being gone before. Gee, I'm coming across as sounding terrible, but I'm really trying to get you to see something......(and btw, this is not an intended put-down to any particular man)..........that if I can see through it with a person I don't even know, then the woman that is M to you will certainly tell when you are trying to make points with her. In the past it could have worked, but not now.

Getting a social life has been reported as being one of the best of the best things a LBS can do to really make a difference. You won't believe it, so you better prove it, okay? Kind of funny the affect it seems to have on the WAS, too.

I'm not going to add anymore "don'ts" right now b/c it must sound terribly discouraging to you. Again, it's not all these things you "do" to win her back. It is about who you become. You work on being the best man you can possibly be....and makes you happy. Then once you're happy with that guy, she may decide she wants to be with him too. Who knows, you may even decide to let her.

[PatientMan]

Thanks again, sandi2.

-PM

[SFC_Swede]

Sandi2...I am completely honored that you spent so much time focused on my thread, and passed along such valuable advice. Because I journal and keep my thread bumped, hopefully other WAS's will see this.

I sincerely appreciate everything you said, and WILL take it to heart more so than I have already. I started GAL'ing big time...and have been out of the home for the past week until she has gone to bed...but she hasnt inquired about my whereabouts either.

[SemperFi00]

Swede, thanks for sharing your story. Nothing to add to the "expert" advice you are receiving here. Keep working on you and stay strong!

LTH and Sandi2, thanks so much for sharing your perspectives. It is incredibly helpful in beginning to have some understanding of what the other side is experiencing.

[SFC_Swede]

Sandi2, LTH, or anyone else....what the heck is going on here???

So my W comes home from work early...I am doing work around the yard and house. She then proceeds to get into a very small bikini and lay out by the pool

Now your saying, "so what". Well, so what is I can count on one hand how many times my W has put a bikini on in our 16 yr R...and I had to beg her, and comfort her to put it on each time. So I am sitting here asking myself what the heck this is all about???

I told her that she was killing me...and her response was "dont look". Yeah right!

Seriously...what is this all about???