Something I learned from the priest of our church was to write letters to people on sensitive topics. Take your time and do a couple of drafts to get it just right. Give it to them with the caveat of them not responding for a couple of days so they can digest it and fully prepare their response. Then schedule a time to discuss what was said by each side. This will probably take a week to run the course but should be much less confrontational. A really good time to do this is when you aren't going to be around for a while so your S can fully prepare their response.
I started to employ letters when our discussions were becomeing more hostile than productive. I kept thinking "I can't even talk to her anymore". Ah hah, I don't have to, I can e-mail or write a letter. Give it a shot. What do you have to lose? Its not she can't "cut you off" any more than she already has.
FYI, I addressed this issue with my W and it was pretty quiet for a couple of days but then, look out!
Remember to remind your W that you are not a "sex addict", you are just a "man". A "sex addict" would have taken their "show on the road" a long, long time ago. One more thing and then I promise I'll quit. Get to the gym and get buff. If that doesn't work than at least you are ready to "take your show on the road".
I am getting very buff. I am making me over, both emotionally and physically. My goal for the end of this year is to weigh 200 pounds(225 right now), to have about a 34 inch waist, to have 6 pack abs (ripples are SLOWLY starting to show). This is pretty darn good for a 45 year old 6'2'' frame. Heck, when I bike ride outside, I already get whistles from the ladies, and yet my wife is NOT ATTRACTED to me? I am also working on making me happy, and less cynical. In the end, I am going to be one heck of a catch, I want her to catch me, but I will have NO PROBLEM if some other women wants me either. I am not going to wait forever for my wife to get off her fridgid kick. It's eventually going to get down to use it or lose it, baby!
Something else to keep in mind is how you're addressing it.
I know one apparently minor but really big mistake that I made early on was that whenever the topic came up, I would tell my H that I felt unloved and unwanted when he didn't want to make out with me. Later, I learned to tell him that it wasn't just sex I wanted, but that I felt unloved and unfeminine because doing stuff really made me feel connected to and intimate with him. I reached a point where when I had to talk about it, I almost developed an instant response to his unspoken but very heard thoughts that "it's just sex" by explaining that it *wasn't* the sex, it was my need to feel loved by and connected to him, and the sex/intimacy, for good or ill, was a moment I felt that love and connection most fiercely and deeply. I'm pretty sure that through repetition he reached a point where he understood what I was saying a bit better, even though it wasn't how he thought about it naturally. Even after he grasped the thought intellectually, it took time and repetition and patience for it to seep through to real understanding. But when it did, it changed his attitude toward me during those discussions a *lot*.
So I guess the question would be, are you telling her you want more sex, or are you telling her you want to feel loved by and connected to her, and that sex is the best and deepest expression of that to you? I've noticed that in your posts it's usually phrased in terms of the sex and intimacy itself first and foremost, and the emotional connection, while definitely the reason for it, gets expressed directly much less frequently. And it might be something that could help.
And the letter idea might be wonderful, because it lets you express yourself but gives you time to go back and take out the anger that leaks through, rather than having to express yourself *and* not let the anger and bitterness through at the same time.
Either way, good luck with everything, and I hope you find more happiness. *small hug and lots of well-wishes*
I am turning in revolution
these are the scars that silence carved
on me
Great, you saw the part about getting buff and like everyone else in the world, you're "working on it". You better draft that letter right now then so your W can start "working on it" too. I like to "eliminate excuses" to help people see the facts and quit placing blame. Write the letter, be the considerate, caring H that you can be, and get buff. She will no longer have any excuses and you will have done truly all that you can. Until then, it is simply her will against yours and isn't that a great way to live, not.
Poepad, Thanks for the reply. I've read it several times today along with the other posts. I can relate to what Corrie said about being on a pity party. I think that the winter time brings the blues to me. I've been in a semi-blue mood since the first of December.
I am normally an upbeat person but even us happy campers have blue spells!
Quote: Past is the past, it isn't coming back.
I think this is one of the reasons I have been blue. I know that things are changing and I have to adjust to them and be content with what I do have. When he came home today I kept wrapping my arms around him and hugging him close and kissing him. He didn't push me away but he is not that interested in hugging me back other than a quick hug and he moves away. I guess that is what brings me down. Tears in the eyes right now (sniff sniff)I don't want anyone else - but it would feel so nice to have him make the effort to reach out and touch me and hold me.
Quote: So I understand what you mean. That is why dates and overnights are real important.
I asked him in the early part of the the week if he would like to go on one of those last minute cruises to Mexico. We don't live to far from the port and it would not be hard to arrange. As always he says no - can't get off work, etc. I had said it would be my Valentine to him - I got a nice end of the year bonus - and it was my treat. It made me think of what you said about pressuring him. I don't want him to feel pressured - but on the same token he has told me NOT to quit asking - that right now he needs to be reminded.
I have got to where I don't ask - I don't remind him - because the answer is always the same.
I am just on my very own pity party - I don't know who I am sadder for - me or him. I have'nt been able to sleep for the last few nights and that just makes it worse.
Quote: You misunderstood, as they age, they will be there less and less, and you and H are staring at each other with nothing to do.
I don't think we will have nothing to do...we get along better than we ever have outside the bedroom. We have many of the same interests and we are looking forward to being able to travel when the kids are no longer in the house. My "extra child" lives in the Grand Caymans and we hope to visit her more often. So I am not worried about not having anything in common when the kids are gone.
Quote: Now you sound like a HD guy, you see the sensitivity comes from lack of testosterone, and that is why I am saying sex or sensitivity . If he gets more test, then he will be less sensitive.
I am certainly glad he is more sensitive because in the past he could be shall we say DIFFICULT. I used to think this man absolutely hated me at times. My mom used to say that he hated himself and hated me for loving him. He was very complex and I certainly like this new sensitive person he has become.
I have told him that I almost feel like the people in the "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" (showing my age here - that movie is 3 days older than dirt!) got him. He looks the same but he doesn't act the same. In some ways it has been great - but in one thing not so great.
Quote: Neicie, you may be unconsciously pressuring him, have you work on using the LOVE BANK CONCEPT.
If I am not mistaken (I have read the idea behind it but have not purchased a book) the love bank concept is that you put in "deposits" in your "love bank". I feel that I have deposited tons of $$ in the love bank. According to him I make him feel loved and desired - maybe too much so. So which do I do? Do I totally back off? Do I not hug and kiss him when he comes home? Should I stop all of the pampering or keep that up? I do it because I want to - I like spoiling him but is that making him feel pressured? Would it be better not to fuss over him? That would be very hard for me to do! Any advice is appreciated.
Have you tried breaking down your requests for more affection into smaller, very specific requests? And putting some 'space' between the requests?
You both know there is a problem, right? So if you said to him, "I've told you I would like to have more intimacy and affection with you, and I see how hard you are trying. One of the things you could do, if it hasn't occured to you, is hug me at least ___ times a day. I love to hug, and they mean a lot to me. Hugs that are kind of like this (and show him). Can you do that for me, please?"
Do not forget to ask him to do that for you. Dropping hints does not cut it. I used to wait for my H to notice or understand my needs -- and he would, from his POV. And I'd appreciate his efforts, but it wasn't what I really wanted.
So now, yes, I spell it out for him, and like I said above, sometimes it takes me a little while to figure out specifically what I want, and how it is he can give that to me, then I ask for it, non-confrontationally, and I don't let him off the hook if he says it's something he thinks he can do.
This may be way too simplistic for your situation, but who knows...
Quote: When he came home today I kept wrapping my arms around him and hugging him close and kissing him. He didn't push me away but he is not that interested in hugging me back other than a quick hug and he moves away. I guess that is what brings me down. Tears in the eyes right now (sniff sniff)I don't want anyone else - but it would feel so nice to have him make the effort to reach out and touch me and hold me.
Okay, even though I am more sensitive, I still feel uncomfortable hugging, I never know how long to hug. It just does not feel natural. As said elsewhere a habit can change.
Quote: I asked him in the early part of the week if he would like to go on one of those last minute cruises to Mexico. We don't live to far from the port and it would not be hard to arrange. As always he says no - can't get off work, etc. I had said it would be my Valentine to him - I got a nice end of the year bonus - and it was my treat. It made me think of what you said about pressuring him. I don't want him to feel pressured - but on the same token he has told me NOT to quit asking - that right now he needs to be reminded.I have got to where I don't ask - I don't remind him - because the answer is always the same.
DATTING, you are trying to eat the whole mountain in one bite. The rule is, one date a week, one overnight every 3 months, and a one-week vacation with no kids once a year. Work on 1 date a week, and use the http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html The Policy of Joint Agreement.
Quote: ????????????Now you sound like a HD guy, you see the sensitivity comes from lack of testosterone, and that is why I am saying sex or sensitivity . If he gets more test, then he will be less sensitive. ????????????I am certainly glad he is more sensitive because in the past he could be shall we say DIFFICULT….He was very complex and I certainly like this new sensitive person he has become….I have told him that I almost feel like the people in the "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" got him. He looks the same but he doesn't act the same. In some ways it has been great - but in one thing not so great.
You still don’t get it, because he has less testosterone, he is more sensitive, and if you put on a medicine that gives him more testosterone he will be less sensitive. So which do you want more??
Quote: ????????????Neicie, you may be unconsciously pressuring him, have you work on using the LOVE BANK CONCEPT. ???????????? If I am not mistaken (I have read the idea behind it but have not purchased a book) the love bank concept is that you put in "deposits" in your "love bank". I feel that I have deposited tons of $$ in the love bank. …..Should I stop all of the pampering or keep that up? I do it because I want to - I like spoiling him but is that making him feel pressured? Would it be better not to fuss over him? That would be very hard for me to do! Any advice is appreciated.
Corrie, Thanks for the suggestions. Sometimes one is so close to the situation that one can't see the forest for the trees, so to speak.
I have tried in the past to ask for hugs/kisses, etc but sometimes it gets old to have to ask for basic affection. Last night we actually went to bed at the same time. We had had a very nice evening - we attended a school fun night for our daughter and participated in the events so everyone was a happy camper.
When we got in bed I ask him to come lay close to me. I did not ask to ML or cuddle. Just come lay close to me. A very basic request. It was not hot in the bedroom - in fact it was downright cold - so getting too hot was not a problem. Of course he says, "I'm right here" which is really over there and I said something to the effect that it won't hurt to come lay by me. He finally moved over by me in the middle of the bed. I lay there for a second and thought "hey - maybe I am putting pressure on him that he doesn't want or maybe I don't want to lay by someone who is so not interested in laying by me". So I moved over to my side of the bed.
That is when we had a very interesting exchange. He asked me why I moved over and I said, "Because it always feels like it is a strain for you to lay by me and quite frankly, I don't want to put you out." That is when he got somewhat annoyed with the "oh here we go again". He said he was just teasing me and that he'd done that all of our married life and it was just a game.
I said, "Did it ever occur to you that I don't like to play that game? It make me feel less than wonderful so I find NO pleasure in your game."
He said that we are both very different people and that we react differently to things. I said that I was well aware of that but that his actions brought unpleasant feelings to me.
It went back and forth with a you did this and I did that kind of dialog. At one point he said that I had always said that he made me feel like I had always come up short of pleasing him (not sexually but in everything else) and that he felt the same way - that he felt like he came up short in the affection department with me.
I told him that I felt I gave him 110% in the affection area and he gave me maybe 10%. I said it is ironic that you maybe need 5% to get by I and I need at least 75% to get by. You have way more than you are even interested in and I am starving for your affection.
I told him that he had no conception of what it is like to have me turn away from him when he wanted to hug or kiss me. I said how would you have felt all these years if I turned away from you? He said he would not have liked it or put up with it. (Isn't that special?) He also said, You just turned away from me now!
What an epiphany! I said, "so you didn't like that? It didn't feel so good?" I said that it wasn't even something he wanted at the time yet he didn't like me turning away when he finally decided to move closer. I said I felt like I was letting him off the hook but he said he didn't like it at all.
We talked for a long time and he said that he loved me very much - that is always nice to hear and that he was the luckiest guy in the world - also nice to hear.
I told him that when he is reluctant to come lay by me that I take it as personal rejection - that sometimes I've just had a bad day and that I want to be close to him and that it wasn't even about sex - it was just about being close to each other.
He said out of the blue that even though the Rx that he took this week, Cialis, kinda upset his stomach that he was going to take it again, that he had enjoyed our LM last week very much and it was kinda like jalapano peppers! I had to LOL at that! He loves jalapano peppers and eats them even though he KNOWS they are not good for his condition! He said that he just wanted to throw that information in. We were not discussing that at all! He said it had been very pleasureable to him. (Yea for me!)
That did give me some glimmer of hope. I think possibly in some ways he has got out the "habit" of ML and that last weekend reminded him of the passion we used to share.
I told him last night that I loved him very much and that I loved to feel his entire body next to mine whether we were making love or not.
Quote: Do not forget to ask him to do that for you. Dropping hints does not cut it. I used to wait for my H to notice or understand my needs -- and he would, from his POV. And I'd appreciate his efforts, but it wasn't what I really wanted.
I hope that I was clear. Dropping hints doesn't really work - I've tried that too! Often their POV and their reality is different than ours!
Thanks for the advice. I am going to try to be more specific with him. Hopefully it is starting to sink in!
As for the blues - there are still there but not so bad today.
I don't think he feels uncomfortable hugging - it is just not something he wants to spend a lot of time doing. He is not real demonstrative but I would not say it makes him uncomfortable. He comes from a family that hugs each other everytime they meet.
Quote: The rule is, one date a week, one overnight every 3 months, and a one-week vacation with no kids once a year.
We haven't really been alone since we went on vacation last year in April. (That was the first one in several years too! In fact, really the first one other than business trips he took with me.) I think we have had maybe one night alone here at home since then without the kids so a little 3 day trip would not be too much - part of it is he is a semi - tightwad as I am myself! He is looking at taxes and paying off Christmas quickly. We do generally go out together once a week and have for the last year and a half. Tonight I did cook at home but we went to Starbucks for a latte and a lemon square! Does that count as a date? LOL
Quote: You still don't get it, because he has less testosterone, he is more sensitive, and if you put on a medicine that gives him more testosterone he will be less sensitive. So which do you want more??
Does it have to be either/or? Isn't there some sort of happy medium? Last night one of the things we discussed was the importance of this to me. I think it is finally sinking into him that this is very important to me and that the health of our marriage is at stake. As I have said, I have no intention of leaving him - sex or no sex. I love him too much to walk away - but I expect him to love me enough to work on this with me.
Quote: LOVE BANK- You are mistaken, go to the website and read it yourself
I went out and read it. The trick is getting him to read it. He has not even read the SSM that I bought. I have suggested it but he has so far showed no interest in reading it. I am sure that he understands the principle. Most reasonable people should. Lets face it - when you are a jerk to your spouse or others they are not going to feel real friendly towards you - but when you are a pleasant person - a loving person - you can expect people to act positively. To me that is just good common marriage sense.
Thanks for the help - I need all I can get! Neicie
Quote: I said, "Did it ever occur to you that I don't like to play that game? It make me feel less than wonderful so I find NO pleasure in your game."He said that we are both very different people and that we react differently to things. I said that I was well aware of that but that his actions brought unpleasant feelings to me.
If you had read M/V as you said, you would know to use I FEEL statements. Talking and justifying are all cheeseless tunnels. Please reread the area about this.
Quote: He said out of the blue that even though the Rx that he took this week, Cialis, kinda upset his stomach that he was going to take it again, that he had enjoyed our LM last week very much and it was kinda like jalapano peppers!... He said that he just wanted to throw that information in. We were not discussing that at all! He said it had been very pleasureable to him. (Yea for me!)That did give me some glimmer of hope. I think possibly in some ways he has got out the "habit" of ML and that last weekend reminded him of the passion we used to share.I told him last night that I loved him very much and that I loved to feel his entire body next to mine whether we were making love or not.
2 things here, did you check out herbs instead of the medicine. And he has to clearly know that laying beside you does not mean he wants sex. I also did not realize the agony my XW was going through by my rejecting her.
DATES: One note on dates, dates should be face and talk time, movies don’t count, neither bowling, etc.. We all make this mistake, in that we do a date with spouse and realized we never talked the whole time.
I have a good thing happen to me, XW unblocked my email to her, I was being an ass last sept, and she blocked it.
