What about passion

[poepad]

We stopped at a restaurant and he said that he was doing this for me and to have the Rx filled the next day (that disturbs me kinda - shouldn't it be for him too?...I was stunned. I know that I am super sensitive to stuff like this but I was none too happy when he said that! I don't remember everything that was said - not too much at that moment - but I said a few minutes later that it was very important to me and didn't seem to be to him and he got quiet annoyed and said "here we go again with that cr*p."

Hmm, he is doing for you. Rem we only need 1 minute, the rest we do for you.

This Rx is supposed to be effective for 36 hours. Saturday morning he woke me up to ML. We ML 3 times Saturday and once Sunday morning. The sex was techically good - it almost always is - but it seems/feels to me that while he said it was great - it is not real passion like I used to get from him...It didn't really feel like duty sex but like he was doing it just for me - not something he was doing for himself

After the first one it was duty sex, in my case if I ML middle of the day, I got sore anchors.

Does that make sense to ya'll? Sunday morning he said "Is sex all you think about?" I told him I still felt like I was 20 years old and my sex drive had not changed.

Really, what about when the kids were small, and all the other activities that suck quality time. My X had a upswing from MD to HD in her early 40's.

How can I explain this to ya'll? I guess the difference was when HE felt passion for me I knew it. He couldn't keep his hands off of me before - now we ML but I felt like he was doing it for me - not for the sheer pleasure of ML. I do know that he enjoyed it - I made sure that I did all of the things that I know that HE likes but I just felt like his heart wasn't in it..... I guess my point is that you can take the Rx and get the physical response that it is designed to do but if the passion is not there there is an important element missing. I think that is where the testosterone comes it. I want him to WANT me like I want him - like he used to want me. The "I can't wait to get you alone" kind of want me.

2 thoughts here, one the testostorone and being alone.

TESTOSTORONE-I know my drive has drop, but as you have mentioned he seems a lot more sensitive to you. I feel emotions a lot stronger, and more aware of body languages and notice interactions of others.

EMPTY NEST-We all of a sudden had time by ourselves and found we did not have a lot in common any more. My low drive and her wanting to make out when we now had time went badly when I rejected her.

If I could give him an Rx that would bring back the passion I would give any amount of money for that...Poe, help me out here. Am I expecting too much too soon?..Neicie

AnitaSue's OM, took a herbal supplement daily and he was a sex maniac. Should be cheaper than an Rx. She loved it at first and then became tired of just sex.



My 2 cents, learn together by getting the audios, LOVE LANGUAGES, LOVE BANK CONCEPT, MUTUAL COMPROMISE, M/V on a date, and WHAT WOMEN WANT MEN TO KNOW by Barbara DeAngelo.

These gave me the most insight, of course the board filled in the gaps as to others who were in my same sith. Your sith closely matched my own, and gave me a clear understanding of how she felt. I completely understand why she left, and how she felt. I thank you for coming here, and if your H is willing this can be work out

Question, you want more sex or sensitivity????

[Lina]

You are continuing to do what so many other LDrs tend to do which is reduce the need for sex to the need to be appreciated, respected, acknowledged, etc....it is far FAR more complex and deep that the comparison you are trying to make. I realize that, on the surface, they may seem similar but they are really completely different.

*sighs* Sorry to go back, but this really did sort of clarify for me what someone else said earlier... I guess it was sort of a revelation of sorts...

I guess it would be fair to say that Meat, there, was doing what most HDers seem to do - assume that because they (we?) receive love best through sexual efforts, that the desire to be acknowledged, appreciated, and understood is so much less complex and deep a way to receive love.

I tend to be a mildly obsessive person. When I find something I want to do, I throw myself into it, heart and soul and time and energy, and can tune almost anything else out. When I reach a point of success in whatever it is I'm doing, it gives me a deep-seated, soul-pleasing, day-making sense of triumph. I've done something well and reached a point worthy of note in something I'm really, really into. Even in my little successes, I take joy. It's something that, while not as life-changing as it sometimes seems in that moment, is tied to a desire deep within me to do well at whatever I do.

I don't have a career I have to work on projects for, but I know that my mini-obsessions, those moments of "Yes! I did it!" tie in with my own personal sense of self-worth, or at least boost it.

And when I've done something, there are a lot of times I have to go find my H and tell him about it, to share those feelings because I'm just so excited I have to tell someone or burst and have them supported. He's always great and responsive and listens to what I say and shows interest, which reinforces my sense of accomplishment, lets me know he's willing to invest some interest in the things that are part of my days, and when he gets really excited and involved lets me feel like he's really interacting and taking part, at least emotionally, in something that touches on so many sides of my sense of self. (Usually those feelings lead me to sexual excitement and the desire to feel even closer, which is even more frustrating because he *did* already interact and take part...)

(HD perspective side of this thought:) If I tried to seduce him once and he wasn't interested, I'd be fine - as long as he followed up later. The problem is that he doesn't - that he doesn't get passionate about ML to me, and interacting with me sexually even though he knows that I do. The reason it's a problem isn't because he lacks interest once, but that he does so on a continuous basis, with little to no initiating himself.

(Other side...) And if I was telling him about my latest accomlishment in *insert activity here*, excited and happy, and he was tired or uninterested once, no problem. I'd deal. (Or I'd find a friend who'd share my enthusiasm.) But if he repeatedly and over a long-term period showed a lack of interest in the *other* things that I get passionate about, then yeah... I would feel unwanted, like he wasn't willing to invest his time and energy into me and what I want, that he didn't care about what was going on in my life, and eventually that he felt that the things I got passionate about were trivial and unworthy of attention. Since those things DO tie in with at least some of my sense of self-accomplishment and -esteem, that would disappoint me and hurt me on a very deep, personal level.

Part of my connection with my husband is that we both DO feel acknowledged, and loved, and special, and cared for, and interacted with, and appreciated by the other. (At least, I know I do, and put a lot of effort into making sure he does.) There wouldn't be a sexual connection between us if we didn't have all of that, and the whole HD/LD thing wouldn't be an issue at all, because there wouldn't be the initial connection to bring us together emotionally.

Now, usually with my little projects and hobbies, it *is* something that most would consider trivial and unimportant - just hit a very emotional, deep, or surprising point in a book I've read, finally beat the uber-boss in a video game that killed me several times in a row - and I recognize that. Nothing I have there is life-altering or has any effect whatsoever on our day-to-day lives.

HOWEVER, even those little things mean a lot to me. They're things that add to my day, and what they mean to ME is different from what they mean to anybody else. And even if it were an insect collection I was getting excited about, having him, over the long-term, trivialize that... dismiss something I was passionate about like it sometimes seems he would with our sex life... it could seriously affect the connection I feel with him. And if it were something tied in with work, with something that could affect both of us... *shakes her head*

So really, it's not fair to trivialize what someone else gets passionate about. If that's what they need to feel loved and appreciated, then... well, that's the same need. Deep and complex, whether he understands how excited and passionate I get about his body or not, and whether I understand how excited and passionate he gets about his little electronic gadgets or not. *shrugs*

I'm sorry for this being such a long ramble, and I'm sure for the most part I'm just repeating others, here, but... I don't know. For some reason this is sitting on the top of my mind like a golden egg, and I can't figure out exactly why. I feel like I've just gleaned something vital, but at the same time I thought I understood it before... *frowns* I dunno. Maybe it's more just a greater understanding of the chasm between two people with extremely different passions... *frowns again* I dunno, though.

[Neicie144]

Poe,
Thanks for the post. I am trying to keep myself open to all possiblities and solutions!

Hmm, he is doing for you. Rem we only need 1 minute, the rest we do for you

I want him to do it for him also! I know that sometimes he is interested in only him and that is fine occassionally. In the past we would spend hours making love. He never was a quickie type guy on a regular basis. He sometimes wants a quickie now and like I said occassionally is ok but if it is the only sex I am going to have for 2 or 3 weeks I am not interested in a quickie - I want the whole enchilada.

After the first one it was duty sex, in my case if I ML middle of the day, I got sore anchors.

Like I said, it didn't feel like duty sex - just not the passion that I was used to. I've got duty sex before from my ex - what a nightmare - I'd rather not have sex if duty sex was the best he could come up with. He has said that ML is better for him during the daylight hours. He said at night now that he is wiped out by bedtime and when he takes his medications it is all over but the shouting. Daylight sex is hard to come by when you have 2 teenagers and one grown son in the house - we have an fairly large home but our bedroom is on the same side of the house as their rooms. What exactly is sore anchors? Hate to be dumb but that one threw me.

I think it could be the testosterone levels. I am going to see if he will have it checked. He always had a high sex drive up until about 4 years ago and it gradually has diminished.

We are a LONG way from an empty nest. Our youngest just turned 13 so it will be at least 5 years before she would go off to college and we don't really want her to go too far away!

Question, you want more sex or sensitivity????

I always want more sex!! LOL...he has actually become pretty sensitive these days. He has truly come a long way and I am very glad for that. I do hope that I can get him to understand that I want that special closeness with him that I get from ML with him - to become one with him. We have know each other right at 25 years and I still find him wildly attractive - he has always been like a magnet to me and I have not been able to turn off the sexual attraction in the least.

I do not want this to come between us and I feel that I have let it overrule everything else. By the same token though, I want him to realize how important intimacy is to me - I am not a neutered cat and don't even want to pretend that I am.

I love my H with all of my heart and can't imagine life without him. He is who I want to go to sleep with and wake up with each and every day - sex or no sex. Outside of the LD problem we get along 10x better than we did even when we were dating! We do spend quality time together each week and enjoy each other's company.

In some ways I feel I am the one who will have to change and accept that this is just the way it is and get over it. It is just been hard to accept gracefully when sex is still at the top of my list of life's greatest pleasures!

Neicie

[madcow]

Hi there. I ws referred to this post since my topic is similar. I am an LD W and I would like to give you my two cents worth (probably all it's worth!) and tell you something about this LD.

tI adore my H. When we were first married we were insane for each other. Over ime, there came the inevitable hurts--the cracks about my being overweight (which I am working on!), my H reading my journal from years ago and quoting personal stuff to me from it (about sex with other men before him, etc), and the inevitable comments about my unacceptably low level of partcipation during sex.

I have been CRITIQUED (in a "loving" and "caring" way, of course!) about my performance in quality, quantity, lack of appropriate noises, and what a prude I am (not true, as he should have read in my journal!) Over months and years of this, I have come to believe that I cannot put my trust with something this delicate in his hands, since he acts like a cretin. When I do not feel safe, I cannot possibly perform.

I really loved sex, always have, although my husband would disagree with this! But now I just can't. I felt hurt when I read some of the posts about how the LD should suck it up and realize how important sex is to the HD and make them the center of their universe. I have become too emotionally crippled and resentful to make someone else the center of my universe. A loving spouse is not supposed to make you feel ashamed, and low, and treat you so poorly that they can't be trusted. Sometimes the LD is created, not inborn. At least in my case.

Now, because of all the LD stuff, I am denied even the basic affection or even kindness that is extended to strangers. This is my punishment. He doesn't get, then neither do I. I was volunteering at my husband's job last week, (trying to be the loving wife),and he treated his female co-worker (who he has a crush on and adores!) like a queen, while treating me like Cinderella before the ball right in front of her. He even let a door slam in my face, but held it for her. All this over something as minimal as sex??? If sex is the only glue that holds a marriage together, and everything else counts for nothing, then screw it. Maybe I SHOULD focus on me, and forget this center of the universe stuff. Maybe Corri is right.

Just MHO, not meant to start any fights. But isn't there an HD out there somewhere that can walk a mile in our shoes?

[msm]

HI,

I haven't posted for a long time, but a few things you said reflex what I have found out about my relationship with my husband.

Just to tell you a bit about my situation: I am the HD spouse and my H is LD. We have been married for almost 3 years, and been having mayor sexual problems for the past 2 years, where the frequency lately is once every 4 months or so. Before that, it was about once a week, which was not enough for me, which, is what started everything. Now, I look at those times as "the good old times"

Now that you know about me, I can tell you that when you said that even though you love your H dearly, you just don't feel secure and loved by him; that his way of treating you, being mean and just hateful breaks your heart and makes you even more LD, all of those statements are what I feel my H is going through.

I have been so bad, so mean and hateful toward him that I feel ashamed. The only excuse, if there is any, is that to me his continuous rejection hurted so very badly that all I wanted was for him to hurt too. I did not realized this desired to hurt him until just a very short time ago, since it was such an instinctive reaction on my part. All I can say is that in every occation I acted in such a despicable way, I was reacting to this almost physical hurt by lashing out at him(believe me, many times it felt like a physical blow that left me breathless), I, in my very unconcious and immature way, was defending myself, not understanding that I was making our situation worse and my dear H's life a living hell every time I felt hurt.

I have understood, in a concious way (finally!)what I was doing, and, even though I cannot say I am completely "cured" from my bad behavior, since every time I feel hurt , I have to recite my mantra " he loves me..he doesn't do it to hurt me" over and over in my head so I won't say anything mean, I can say I have redirected my energies toward being constructive and appreciative. Our relationship is so much better and I have so much more love for him now that I realized how much he put up with. I hope your H gains this sort of appreciation for you.

One piece of advice on the SSM book that I have taken to heart is the one that said that you have to put your hurt aside and be good to your spouse, and not think " I will be good to him/her when he/she starts treating me well". It is a vicious cycle, since the other person also feels the same way. . The good relationship starts from you, not the other person.

I hope this story helps you a bit. I know that the last thing you want to do is to be the "giver" one more time, but , and this is a BIG but, IF YOU WANT to work on your marriage and have not given up, take heart and be the bigger person, do what the other person needs you to do to feel loved and if your Husband loves you, which I am sure he does, he will come around, he will responde with kindness and give you what you need.

I am so bless that I have seen my bad ways and I can correct them, before they drove my once loving husband away, that I will not stop giving him what he needs to feel secure in our relationship. In the end , we both win.

Take heart, and good luck

[NOPkins]

Hi, madcow.

Interesting post.

I find myself withdrawing from my wifes emotional needs when mine go unmet for so long. I think that is normal. In fact, I spent years trying to give her what she needed, all the while ignoring my own needs. I think it was very bad for our relationship.

Yesterday, she storms in from work, enraged at me because I am not meeting her needs. I asked her what her problem was and she told me that I had been acting so weird that she was tired of it.

Do you not see something amiss here?

I have not ignored her, or treated her badly, but it is my fault - according to her.

It is not my fault that she has a low sex drive. Slice it anyway you want, it isn't my fault. It isn't her fault that I have a high sex drive is it?

It is both our faults for not figuring this out a couple decades ago and doing something about it then.

She stormed in to get my attention - she really already had it, just not in the way she was accustomed to. It isn't some power game, but Mr. Stability has gone away. What's left isn't angry, just empty. That's my problem, and I will fill the void. Her problem is that it might not be with something she likes.

Like others have mentioned here, you can't find your happiness in someone else. She looks to me for all her happiness but is unprepared to add her part to the equation. This is bad news from two obvious perspectives.

Many times, I have tried to encourage her to find things that she is interested in. I have helped her be more self-assured. I have helped her develop talents in the technical fields. I have done what I could to improve her independence. Even if I could be her happiness, what the hell will she do when I am gone.

You can't find your sexdrive in your husband. If you want it back, then get aggressive and take it back. If he has robbed from you, then tell him and find an equitable solution. Whatever you do, don't wallow about and blame him. Take your life back then approach the problem between you.

All the best,
-NOPkins-

[Corri]

Madcow --

I think the only critical thing you need to acknowledge is that sex is anything but 'minimal' to an HD spouse.

Having said that, I understand your pain and I know first-hand what that feels like. I think NOPkins point is that the two of you are stuck in the 'blame game,' and that doesn't get anyone anywhere.

If you have not done so, I think you should go out and get the Sex Starved Marriage, and ask your H if you can read it together. The first half of the book is about the HD perspective, and he is going to gloat, so be prepared. Don't worry though, the second half of the book will explain the LD perspective, and you get to do a bit of smiling of your own.

What is critical for you and your H to admit is that BOTH of you have caused the problem together, and it is going to take BOTH of you to fix it. He must, MUST understand how his digs and cruel verbal jabs at you are slowly killing you inside, just as you need to understand that he is slowly dying inside from lack of intimacy.

If the two of you can get on the same page with this at least, I think the two of you will feel more hope and love than you have in a very long, long time.

Understand that I am not minimizing your pain, because I do so understand it. But what I had to learn the hard way is that I had to learn to stick up for myself, draw boundaries with my H, and do whatever I had to do to get through his head that his hurting me HAD TO STOP. This you must do as well.

Please keep posting. There are a lot of great people here who can really help you along your journey.

Corri

[cac4]

But isn't there an HD out there somewhere that can walk a mile in our shoes?

No. there isn't. Ok, I'm teasing a little, but that is sort of the point. HDs want it, no matter what. In fact, reading through the book, I found a whole bunch of reasons, really good reasons, why I might be LD. But I'm just not. I want it anyway.

I'm certainly no expert, but I'm willing to bet that these things are seldomly one-sided. You've got some perfectly legitimate beefs about your relationship. You're certainly entitled to be treated w/ respect and kindness. I will not even attempt to defend the other side in this situation. However, one thing about your post really struck me:

All this over something as minimal as sex???

Its not "minimal". (or "trivial", if that's what you meant). it is H U G E to the HD person. I don't think it is possible to hurt an HD more deeply than to not desire them.
But I do think that the "sucking it up" part only applies to those LDs who's other issues have not yet been addressed or resolved. Its not supposed to be a one way street. I guess there are such people, who's needs are all being met, and still have LD; these are the one's that need to suck it up, and acknowledge the fact that sex is not trivial to the HD person.

As far as being denied "basic affection", I think I've been guilty of this myself, and I have an explanation. To us HDs, sex IS "basic affection", and the lack of it is a terribly hurtful rejection. When we are in the midst of a dry spell, I know that I am far less affectionate physically, and the reason is that any physical contact is an instant reminder of the situation that I'm desperately trying to block out. It is a defense mechanism against further rejection.

Just wanted to throw those thoughts out there...I hope you are able to solve your differences.

-Chuck

[poepad]

I want him to do it for him also! I know that sometimes he is interested in only him and that is fine occasionally. In the past we would spend hours making love.

Past is the past, it isn’t coming back.

He never was a quickie type guy on a regular basis. He sometimes wants a quickie now and like I said occasionally is ok but if it is the only sex I am going to have for 2 or 3 weeks I am not interested in a quickie - I want the whole enchilada.

I WANT, interesting.

. Daylight sex is hard to come by when you have 2 teenagers and one grown son in the house - we have a fairly large home but our bedroom is on the same side of the house as their rooms.

That was a problem with us, sort of, on sat she would get up early to go shopping or so other thing that was more important than staying in bed. So that left Sunday, now if all the planets line up, and I was feeling okay, we would ML and have a really nice day. So I understand what you mean. That is why dates and overnights are real important.

What exactly is sore anchors? Hate to be dumb but that one threw me.
“sore anchors” Do I need to get technical, let’s see, they use to call it blue balls.

I think it could be the testosterone levels. I am going to see if he will have it checked. He always had a high sex drive up until about 4 years ago and it gradually has diminished.

Sounds about right, natures way of making sure, only the 25yr old get more action. Ie better sperm.

We are a LONG way from an empty nest. Our youngest just turned 13 so it will be at least 5 years before she would go off to college and we don't really want her to go too far away!

You misunderstood, as they age, they will be there less and less, and you and H are staring at each other with nothing to do.

always want more sex!! LOL...he has actually become pretty sensitive these days. He has truly come a long way and I am very glad for that. I do hope that I can get him to understand that I want that special closeness with him that I get from ML with him - to become one with him.

Now you sound like a HD guy, you see the sensitivity comes from lack of testosterone, and that is why I am saying sex or sensitivity . If he gets more test, then he will be less sensitive.

In some ways I feel I am the one who will have to change and accept that this is just the way it is and get over it. It is just been hard to accept gracefully when sex is still at the top of my list of life's greatest pleasures!

Neicie, you may be unconsciously pressuring him, have you work on using the LOVE BANK CONCEPT.

[CeMar]

madcow:

It was hard to tell, but it sounds like LD came before many of your problems. I am a HD husband and I bet my ND wife feels much like you. My wife also feels sex is very unimportant. HD males want only one thing in their lives, a lover. They will do anything to get it. They will give up EVERYTHING, including family and wives to get it. To HD men, SEX=LOVE. So your lack of interest in SEX will always be seen as NO LOVE by your husband. For your husband to be happy, he must be making love to someone that wants to make love to him just as badly. You may show him love in YOUR ways, but if you are not giving him FULLFILLING sex with PASSION, then you will FAIL, PERIOD. I know, this sounds really bad. To a LD spouse, sex is an act, and a "Minimal" one at that. To a HD spouse, SEX is an EMOTION. And to a HD man, darn near 100% of his emotional well being is wrapped up in sex. So deny him sex, and you literally mess up his mind so badly, he will eventually start looking for ANY way to fix it. Thus comes the office romance, the affair, the Mid Life Crisis (virtually every MLC I have read about is really a SSM). Boy, this sounds really heavy!

Now to fix the situation, it requires YOU to change. The LD spouse is in complete control of the destiny of the marriage. I have read a bunch of books, and in ALL cases the solution to this problem is only achieved when YOU change. It is far harder for the solution to originate from the man, since his only options are to make himself into the world greatest husband, voice his needs to the wife, and then sit back and pray that something changes, which of course usually does not happen. He has little control over the destiny of the marriage. So YOU are in complete control of your marriage. You need become a sexual dynamo(and this is very hard to do for you I am sure), and give your husband MIND BLOWING sex at least 2-3 times a week. You must put 100% effort into it, or your husband will know it is duty sex, and that does not help. Afer you have been giving him great sex for several weeks, then gradually work in some of YOUR requests. Usually, if a guy is getting GREAT sex, he will not want to lose it, so he will go to hell and back to NOT lose it.

Can a HD male walk in a LD womans shoes, sorry to say, no! I can not understand a feeling that does not exist in my universe. I am guessing that for you, it is work to just even have a sexual thought come into your head. For me, sex is like a screen saver, if the mind goes idle for even a second, the sex screen saver kicks in. It is always there. Us HD guys just have to be able to show empathy for a problem that we can not even comprehend.