Hello everyone. First time poster. I have been reading Divorce Busting and found my way here. I've read through some of the posts and this looks like a helpful/supportive community. I could use some help getting through this, no matter how it turns out.
Here is a brief background of my situation...
My wife of 10 years has felt I haven't listened to her concerns at times during our marriage. At first, she gave me the benefit of the doubt. More recently, she viewed my actions (or lack of action at times) as hurtful. About 6 months ago she told me ILYBINILWY, but said she wanted to work on it. We tried counseling, but I did everything wrong you could possibly do (I just learned this recently). I cried, pleaded, became a pushover, ask for reassurance, and talked and talked and talked. I became weak and insecure, which is not who I am. I pushed her out the door. She even used those exact words. I cemented every reason she was questioning in her head about leaving.
Two weeks ago she told me it was over and she wanted a divorce. She hasn't filed yet because she was unsure of what to do financially. We cannot afford to rent an apartment. We have both made arrangements to stay with friends off and on while the other stays home with our two children (D9 and S5). She seems more comfortable as to what the future holds, and I believe she will file soon. We are still in the same house for two more weeks because we are waiting until the kids are out of school to tell them.
I do not want my marriage to end. She has said that if she could see us working out, that would be her first choice. But she says she just can't see that possibility anymore. She has seen some changes in me in the last couple weeks (as well as some old/bad actions), but she says its too late. I do notice her being more sad, than upset, that this is happening. The hardest part for me through this is never knowing what I should be doing. Between family, close friends, and the MC, I never knew if what I was doing was right. We have always got along extremely well, and I'm doing my best to play nice. I still care about her very much. It hurts to be know that my actions, even if unintentional, were hurtful to her.
Last night, I finally just asked her questions and listened. I talked, but not nearly as much as I normally do (its something I'm really working on). I over-talk. I asked her questions about how she felt when she thought I was ignoring her feelings. In the past, I would offer solutions and be positive when she was feeling down. I thought I was helping, but she just needed someone to listen. Last night, I tried to just listen. She spoke more than me, which does not happen when we discuss our relationship/marriage. Mostly because I just never shut up. To her, this was controlling. It took me a while to see why. So while trying to just listen, it allowed her to talk. She got emotional which is not common for her. I'm not sure if thats a breakthrough or not. She expressed concerns about needing space from and its hard while we are still in the same house.
What actions give me the best chance of saving my marriage from this point?
Thank your for listening.
M:34 W:36 M:10 T:15 D:9 S:5 BD:12/12 Worked on the M for 6 mo before W saying it was over 5/13.
Welcome on these boards! You are here, I am here and we are here with a lot of other nice and caring people – we are all sorry to be here and at the same time happy that this forum exits!
Start by realizing WHY you are here! Accept the fact that your W is leaving and then:
Sandi2 list Start by reading Sandi2 list - this is important! Read it every day for the next month. You will find it as a sticky in the top of this forum. Follow it!
Read DR It will help you on what you are about to start!
Why did she drop the Bomb. Have you sorted this out? (Don’t ask W!) Mr. Bond already asked you this
180s What are your 180s. What have you changed? Work on you? If you have sorted out the reason for the B you will have an excellent list to start with. Then add all the things you have thought of yourselves over the last years. Things you should have done! Things you would have done, if only…..? Be concrete, prioritize and then do it and keep doing it! Consistence rules above all! (You will find a lot of posting in here saying “Do it for you!” Changes will not last and you will fall through if you do this to win W back!)
Act-as-if. Read DR and get a hold of this concept! If you follow Sandi2s list you will be on the right path!
GAL (Get A Life) You need to get your head of this so start doing things: Exercicze, read, go out with friends…. Do stuff you like!
Keep the hope! It can be done! You will find out as you obtain knowledge! It will be hard!! It will demand all your patience and then some!!! ...but it can be done!
You will find much more on this in these boards and I highly recommend that you start reading up on the concept of the WAW and the ILYBINILWY-statement. I also have a WAW and also ILYBINILWY. Children same age so my sitch is a lot like yours in general. There’s a lot of us in here and you will find it totally crazy how alike this ILYBINILWY-WAW is on a world wide basis.
The list of things you can do could be much longer! You will meet the word DETACHMENT a lot of times in here and it is an extremely important word but DETACHMENT is also very hard and it takes time. The reason I have picked the subjects above and not a lot of other things is that these subjects can be implemented quickly and especially Sandi2s list! So start there and then work you own way from there!
Originally Posted By: ALF
We are still in the same house for two more weeks because we are waiting until the kids are out of school to tell them.
Do the changes NOW so she has a change to see them. Are you certain that you will split up in two weeks or will you in fact have to stay together for some time! ALWAYS prioritize the children so start reading about when and how to inform them! I will have to do this soon so I have read up on this subject and the best way to give a short resume is to refer to 25yearsmls from Papa4life thread: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2342370&page=9
Originally Posted By: ALF
She has seen some changes in me in the last couple weeks (as well as some old/bad actions), but she says its too late.
Too little too late is a WAW standard. It is called script in here! All of us get it and there will be more so don’t worry about that right now!
Worry about you! This is hard to get but it is the center of it all! I am just starting to get it now! Worry about you! Remember consistency! If you want the best shot at this then focus on you, worry about you and let W mind her business! (Never forget the children!)
Originally Posted By: ALF
She spoke more than me, which does not happen when we discuss our relationship/marriage. Mostly because I just never shut up. To her, this was controlling.
This is controlling and it will push her further away. Get a hold of the concept of Validating her feelings! You have to STFU!
Get to it – NOW! Keep posting in here!
All the best!
P.S. Make a signature on your account! This helps people remember you!
(Please keep in mind that I am not a VET (Veteran) in these matters. I am only 10 weeks in!)
Me:44 W:43 D7, D5 (S11 from other R)
T: 8y - not M ILYB: 8. Mar 2013 W moved: 1. Aug 2013 LRT: 20. Aug 2013 _______________________________ Do or do not – there’s no try.
What were her reasons for leaving? Aside from the current needy behaviors (which are perfectly natural by the way). Did you read all of DR?
Her main reason for leaving is that she says she didn't feel "safe" with me as her husband. That I got complacent and settled. We have young kids and we always put them first. I knew our marriage wasn't great at times, but I guess I thought it was "normal" with young kids, and eventually we would be able to dedicate more time to us. We stopped making time to do things together. It was always separate or as a family.
Another issue is she says I stopped listening to her. I tried to fix things when she would tell me what was bothering her, instead of just listening and understanding. This is also where the controlling part comes in. Instead of listening to her, I would try to help and gives solutions or offer help. She just needed me to listen and be there. So she began to disconnect emotionally.
I have not read DR yet. I just picked it up last night. I am part way through DB, and I'm trying to apply the 180 and LRT. Our discussion a couple nights ago was the first time I truly validated her feelings. She opened up more than she has in at least a couple months. She does not open up easily. At times when I knew something was bothering her, and I tried to talk to her, she would always play it off. Saying she was just tired or she didn't like her job. Turns out that wasn't the case. She was questioning our marriage internally.
We have always been great friends. In a way, I think it masked some of our problems. Even now, she is very friendly to me most of the time. Its confusing. She does not yell or get upset, but she is quiet/sad at times. She thinks we can be that happy divorced couple that gets along great.
I saw a MWD video on youtube the other day. She mentioned that a WAW will stay in the marriage until she finds a reason to leave. During that time, it will often appear to the H that things are going well. This is exactly what happened. We seemed to be doing really well. Then my W started a new job in September, and in November, I found out she was texting with a guy from work on a regular basis. Then the BD happened in December. She claims he was just a friend and there was no affair. The MC told her she needed to cut off all outside of work contact with this OM if she wanted the marriage to work. She didn't think it was necessary, but reluctantly agreed. From that point things seemed to improve before stalling out a month or so later. Then I found out she started emailing him after no contact for a month or so. She still said it was not a PA, and even denied it was an EA. She was very sad/scared when I asked her about it. She was apologizing and insisted she would stop. She kept saying I should be so angry with her. I was, but I'm not the yelling type. I let her know I was hurt by it and it needed to stop, now. It was/is a classic EA. She said she would talk to him at work the next day. I told her I wanted to know how that went. After work she doesn't bring it up, so I ask. She did a complete 180 on the topic. She said she was not going to stop talking to this "friend", and that I can't control who her friends are. She said it felt good to stand up for herself. This lead to her saying she couldn't do this anymore and she wanted a divorce. I don't know her what her relationship with the OM is now. I don't ask. I do know her phone goes with her everywhere in the house. She rarely sets it down, and when she does, its face down. She also doesn't let the kids play any games on her phone, which they used to do occasionally.
She told me the other day that it is hard to be in the same house together. Since she isn't angry with me, I think its because it makes her sad that our marriage is over. She has cried (which she doesn't do often) a couple times when talking about that.
One more thing, my W's mom left when she was 2. Her step mom treated her poorly. She learned as a child to just keep things in. It was easier than speaking out and causing problems. So thats what she did in our M. She kept it in until it was too late. The MC believes that when she felt I was letting her down, I got all the unresolved resentment she had towards her mom and step mom. Fair or not, thats what it is. She feels for the first time she is standing up for herself. It turns out her best friend is going through the same thing and ended her marriage about a year ago (I knew about the D, but didn't know why). So for the last 18 months, my W has been her sounding board. Its hard not to think this has influenced my W. She says her friend didn't convince her to leave, but the more they talked over the months, the more she realized she felt the same.
So I think thats most of it...
M:34 W:36 M:10 T:15 D:9 S:5 BD:12/12 Worked on the M for 6 mo before W saying it was over 5/13.
If her main issue is that I didn't listen to her or take her concerns/feelings seriously, do I need to wait for her to bring them up? This is something she has never done. I always had to ask to get her to talk. I even tried waiting for her to tell me in the past. I would wait weeks and she still wouldn't come to me with it. I initiated the conversation a couple nights ago in which I listened and validated for the first time, and she opened up. Should I back off and not initiate those conversations?
M:34 W:36 M:10 T:15 D:9 S:5 BD:12/12 Worked on the M for 6 mo before W saying it was over 5/13.
It takes a while to get my posts approved, so I have been spending time reading through some threads. The more I read, the more I believe its too late. I have done all the things that push the WAW further away.
I pleaded for her to stay. I asked her to think about the kids. I asked for reassurance. I touched/flirted with her. I pressured her. I didn't truly listen to her because I thought it was just a phase. I told her I was reading books. That I am changing. I continued to shoot myself in the foot over and over again.
She feels completely done. She sees no hope for us. She started dressing better, getting into better shape, wearing makeup, etc. And like I suspected, its because another man is showing her attention.
I struggle with finding hope, and then asking myself why I'm still fighting. To not be a fool and just accept its over. Its hard to read thread after thread and not see happy endings. Especially when some of them are very familiar to my own sitch. I hate to be all doom and gloom, but its hard to find hope today.
M:34 W:36 M:10 T:15 D:9 S:5 BD:12/12 Worked on the M for 6 mo before W saying it was over 5/13.
Alright, I'm an idiot. I talked to her again last night, or I should say I listened to her. How she truly feels and why finally hit me like a punch in the stomach. So many times I tried blaming her, her friends, or a certain situation during all of this...instead of myself. I looked at the facts of the sitch (after BD) as they appeared to me, or to a friend or brother I talked to about it. What I didn't do, was looked at it from her side. That was a big mistake.
One of the things the MC asked my W to do was make a list of things she felt resentment towards me for. She never got to share them because at the beginning of the next session she said it was over. She shared that list with me last night. I have to admit, it was kind of hard to read/hear. Almost all of them had to do with me disregarding or not understanding her feelings. I tried to fix the situations, or I blew them off as not a big deal. All because I didn't just listen and be compassionate. This lead to things she felt she couldn't tell me because she knew I would try to tell her otherwise. Shutting up is not a strong suit of mine. I always thought because I didn't yell or get angry that it couldn't be damaging. But what it did was keep me from truly listening. I am the type of person that hears part of what a person says during a conversation that I want to respond to, and then I am just waiting for a chance to interject. Or worse, I interrupt because I think I am helping. <is there a banging head against wall emoticon on here?>
The bad news is I could have prevented a lot of the pain I caused her. She knew my intentions were not to be hurtful, but after so many years she couldn't give me the benefit of the doubt anymore. The one person she trusted her heart too was breaking it. She feels she has no choice but to get away from that (me). She knows I am a loving and caring person, but I hurt her. She feels as though I would always resort back to doing this because I didn't realize I was doing it in the first place.
The good news is I feel like I have a much better understanding of why she feels so hurt and lost trust in me. Yes we both made mistakes, but I can't control her mistakes. I can only work on me.
So here are a few 180s I am trying to implement...
- STFU when she is talking - Ask questions and truly listen - Do not pursue her/Give her space
Does anyone else have any suggestions based on the info I provided?
M:34 W:36 M:10 T:15 D:9 S:5 BD:12/12 Worked on the M for 6 mo before W saying it was over 5/13.
We have decided to wait until after father's day to tell the kids. Its only another week later than we had planned. I'm doing my best to put on a happy face around her everyday, and to truly believe I will be okay. Its hard at times. The mornings are definitely the worst.
Earlier this week I initiated a conversation over messenger late one evening. We were actually in the house, but I was upstairs in bed. This has always been a way for her to feel a little more comfortable opening up. I did my best to validate her feelings. She has told me that she feels dirty/angry/sad that I assumed her "friendship" with OM was something more. It was a clear cut EA at the time, but I don't know what it is now and I don't ask. During our chat, I told her I shouldn't have assumed it was more than that, and that I'm sorry that it made you feel that way. She said she appreciated me telling her that, and she knew I would make assumptions. She said I always turned any situation into how I wanted to see it, instead of listening to her side. Instead of talking to me about it, she hoped that I would just stop doing it (she knows this wasn't right to keep it in, but it happened). She says it made her feel like she was going to "crumble", and she still feels that way being married to me. It makes her angry and sad at the same time. I told her she should be angry, and that my actions were disrespectful and selfish.
Thats the short version. I tried to keep my words to a minimum, but I still think I added a sentence or two too much at times. The hard part came at the end. She says she believes now she was always able to really be herself around everyone, but me. That was really hard to here. I don't know if she meant the last couple years, or ever. To me, it just appeared to happen the last couple years. I'm not sure how she sees it and I didn't ask. I know she is going to speak in absolute negatives at times, so I'm trying to not let that get to me. But it has stuck in my head.
The thing is I love the real her, and I've tried to encourage her to get back to being that person the last couple years. Looking back, I did a poor job of relaying that message. So now she thinks she can't be herself with me, and that I didn't want her to be herself.
Since that conversation earlier this week, she has talked to me more. She talked about a couple people from her new job. A 180 for me is to stop what I'm doing, face her, and listen to everything she is saying. I did this and she talked much more than normal. It felt nice. Yesterday, she called me and was frustrated with her Dad. She felt her Dad has also not truly listened to her, and will manipulate a situation to get what he wants. Well, she was at the grocery store with him and it was happening. While getting him some stuff from the other side of the store, she called me. In the past, I would have told her that he meant well and thats just how he is. You know he loves you. Yesterday, I let her talk and I listened. She stood up to him a little, and I validated that it was the right thing to do. I listened to how she was feeling and I got on her side. She carried on the conversation about that situation longer than normal.
So in the last week I've really learned how if I just listen, she will talk more. The last couple years I've expressed to her that I wish she would talk to me more. Guess she wanted to, but I just wouldn't STFU long enough for her to do that. Then she just gave up.
I have been GALing a little more. I love to fly fish and have been doing more of that. I rarely went for 6 months after BD. Fitness is a big part of my life and I'm back to working out more often with more effort. I have cleaned up my eating habits which had slipped the last couple years. A big thing for me has also been getting things done around the house/yard. This was always something she didn't want to nag me about. She thinks I'm doing for show right now. That may have been why it started, but I found it to be very therapeutic and rewarding. It also keeps me busy when we are both in the house instead of just sitting around together. So I've continued regardless of what she believes.
To update my 180s...
- STFU and listen - Ask open questions and do not anticipate her response - Validate what she is saying - Do not pursue or pressure - Do not let her words get me down
M:34 W:36 M:10 T:15 D:9 S:5 BD:12/12 Worked on the M for 6 mo before W saying it was over 5/13.
I'm looking for some advice. My W says she is sad and angry about our M. In the past, I would try to give her things to focus on that made her happy. I was basically telling her to ignore those feelings, which to her, was me ignoring her feelings (which makes complete sense now). While I started doing a 180 by not doing this, I wonder if I should be asking about those feelings? If she says she is angry, do I ask her why she is angry and then validate? If one of the major issues she says she lost a connection with me is because I didn't listen, and by listening and asking open questions has resulted in her talking more recently, should I apply it to any R talk? Or should I just validate and avoid R talk? Help!
M:34 W:36 M:10 T:15 D:9 S:5 BD:12/12 Worked on the M for 6 mo before W saying it was over 5/13.
