I have always had passion, about almost everything. I have no idea how I would generate passion about something I was not interested in though.
Sometimes I think my passion has been a hindrance to my wife finding her niche in life. I don't know of anything she is passionate about, except maybe gardening plants and flowers.
The wife and I are still struggling. It's been five days since we last had sex. She tries to do all the right things and have a good attitude about it. I know that must be very difficult for her. The underlying mechanics of her actions, and the ease at which she can "fall from grace" are still very visible.
That visibility is killing my desire to continue trying (again). My level of desire hasn't changed, but I honestly can't keep asking her to try and be something that she can't be. It really isn't even hurting my feelings not to be desired, rather I find myself hurting for her.
We exchanged emails a few weeks ago. I told her I thought we were about done. She said we were just trying to get each other into our respective 'boxes', and that we were not beyond repair. I didn't agree. A week long valiant effort ensued (as expected) and petered out into nothing (as expected). If you think that expectation killed any chance of success, it didn't. I have been the route of positive thinking too - same result.
So, folks, I still believe there is hope, but I believe even more strongly than before, that waiting to deal with sexual inequity is akin to playing russian roulette with your relationship. Don't wait decades to deal with your spouse. Do it while there is still a spark in the relationship and a chance for recovery.
I am pulling for Corri. I hope she can kindle a spark in herself that will ignite passion in her relationship, but Corri, if things don't go well, don't feel like you have to keep up a good face. Come talk to your buds here. We can all fall on our face occasionally.
Personally, I am hoping that plastic surgery can correct all the skid marks on my face :-)
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Wow, NOP, you know how to throw out the tough questions, don't you?
I find your empathy and your compassion for your W's struggles to be astoundingly touching. I'm sure the immediate thought that may come to your mind is, 'yeah, I feel these things for her, but it's not getting ME anywhere.'
If my H were to say something like that to me (which he has), I would tell him how wonderful that made me feel, and then he would respond to me like the above sentence. It kind of takes the 'wonderful' out of things, but I have to recognize that that is just him.
I don't know how one generates passion where none exists. It's not like I'm not 'passionate' about sex, but I wouldn't ever say I'm as passionate about it as my H, and I seriously doubt I ever will be. Conversely, he is not nearly as passionate about my projects as I am, and I doubt he ever will be. Does that hurt? It can, if I let it. Or, I can respect the fact that he just isn't passionate about some of the things I am, and let that be okay.
He once asked me why I couldn't be as passionate about him as I am about my work and research projects. I asked him why he couldn't be as passionate in his interest of my projects as he is about sex.
You can see where this could very quickly degrade into a 'what came first, the chicken or the egg' fight.
Last night, he got really mad at me because I didn't cook dinner, and I had asked him to pick something up for he and the boys. I had a project I had to finish up for a client. He said 'we eat out too much,' (which I think is debatable) and that it was MY JOB to cook him dinner.
That made me so sad. Whether I think it's my job or not, the demand, and him placing that JOB on me robs me of any passion I might have for the deed for him, if I allow it.
He has said to me before that he can't even 'say the things I want to say to you, in the manner I want to say them, or it blows up in my face.' I say to him, that he can say whaterver it is he wants to say, whenever he wants to say it, but that doesn't mean he's going to get the response he wants.
It's like what Michele said on LDWife's thread about real giving. Real giving is not giving to someone what WE like to receive, real giving is finding it within ourselves to give to the other person what THEY like to receive. The above scenarios fit into my H giving to me what HE likes to receive, and I think it's pretty obvious why it doesn't get him anywhere. I do that as well, so I'm not heaping the blame all on his head.
My point in all of this is, I think the challenge to good relationships is ALWAYS paying attention. And both parties must do it, or at least always do the best they can.
In your wife's case, I think she is trying the best she can. If it isn't enough for you, I'm not sure what to say. I wonder if there are other things that she does for you that no one else on the planet could do like her... and she just does them so well, you don't even think to notice. And I'm wondering if you left to find the perfect sexual mate, if those little things your wife used to do for you would all of a sudden take on much more significant meaning... but you just wouldn't miss them until they were gone.
Lord knows I've spent enough time here to get a handle on understanding the HD person, and I think I'm getting there. I understand to the extent that I am able, all that you say. My heart truly goes out to you because I've watched you in this struggle for some time. I wish I had an answer for you, NOPkins.
Maybe some day if you find a passion for your wife's efforts that is equal to your passion for sex, you might find your answer. I don't say that as a criticism, but just as a goal that I try to aspire to as well. I find that when I get passionate about my H's efforts to show me his love in the ways he knows how, in the most gracious and loving manner I can, the rest tends to take care of itself. And THAT's what I am working so hard to get better at.
I know that LD women put sex way down their list of things to do. I understand that you find other things more exciting, like your job and projects. My wife is the same way, she packs a lot into her days. I would guess that my wife would place intimacy with me as about 10th of things to do everyday, and unfortunately she only gets down to about #5 on the list most days. It bothers us HD guys though, we feel UNDESIREABLE when our LD wives value OTHER things so much more then US. Heck, I am jealous of my own children now, since they get the attention, I don't. I don't put anything ahead of my wife on a regular basis, but she ALWAYS puts other things ahead of me in importance.
Your husband does not have passion for sex, he has passion for YOU. If it was just about sex, then he could get it from any hooker. But that is not fulfilling. He wants sex with a hot passionate CORRI, someone who WANTS to be with him. He wants to know that he is the center of your universe like you hopefully are the center of his. It is his way of communicating, since many men are not so good with the verbal skills. It's his way of being EMOTIONAL, many guys resort to sex to convey emotions that they can not express. It's his RELEASE valve and security blanket all rolled into one. It's how he maintins his emotional health. We HD guys are not so sophisticated, we are not verbally skilled, we have trouble with expressing emotions, we have trouble in MOST all relationship skills, and that is one reason that sex plays such a big role in our lives, it keeps connected to our wives in ways that we can NEVER achieve outside the bedroom. If we are not successful in our sexual relationship with our wives, we feel like failures in ALL aspects of our lives. We are not like women that have many options for happiness, we are so limited to what can actually make us happy, we truly are simple creatures.
You are sweet to care, thank you. But please don't misundertand my post. I DO understand his needs, his need for passion, and what that does for him. And because I DO love him, and I passionately want him to feel loved by me, I think I am doing my very best to give that to him because it is what HE needs. Again, like Michele says, I give to him the way he needs for me to give, not the way *I'd* prefer to give.
I will not EVER apologize for being who I am. I don't think I'm a flawed human, or that I should be more like him (I know you didn't say that I was). What I DO resent, however, is when he says I SHOULD be more like him, that I SHOULD want to have sex as much as him because that would prove to him that he is indeed the center of my world.
All that would do is make me the female version of him, and that's not who I am. I have my own needs, my own wants, my own passions, and I don't think I should ever have to give that up for anyone. The challenge for both he and I is making room and making time for EVERYONE'S passions because we are valued and loved for the individuals we are.
Before my H and I met, he was involved with a woman for five years who was a sexual dynamo. Built like a brick sh!thouse, sexy, attractive, and she LOVED to have sex. On that score, I don't think you could have found a female on the planet who was more sexually suited for my H.
If your theories hold true, CeMar, since my H was getting all the lovin' he could possibly want with the passion thrown in to boot, those two should have been the match made in heaven.
But that relationship fell apart (before I came into the picture if you are wondering) because there were so many other incompatibilities. Believe it or not, you DO have other emotional needs that need to be met, and they are just as important as the physcial/emotional needs from your partner. I think that the lack of physcial love for you is sticking out like a sore thumb right now because you are starved. But to say that 'passion, and him being the center of my world,' is the glue that holds it all together, I think is inaccurate. He HAD that. One of the reasons the relationship fell apart is because SHE DID want to be the center of his world, to the exclusion of all else, and I'm sorry, no matter who you are, no matter if you are LD or HD, that is simply not realistic.
My H has a passion for having sex with me, yes, I agree. But were you to say he has a passion for ME, then everything I did, everything I said, he would feel 'passionate' about, because those things are part of who I am. But he doesn't. He gets annoyed when things I feel passionate about interfere with his time. There are things I am passionate about that are just painfully hard for HIM to be passionate about. Now, I could sit here and say that because he is NOT passionate about everything I am passionate about, the things that make me feel really, really good about myself, then that must mean he doesn't really love me.
Does that sound healthy to you?
Part of what you are dealing with is that your wife is completely ignorant of what your needs really mean to you, and how not having those needs met is ripping you apart. Because she says it's not important to her, it shouldn't be important to you.... and that is every bit as hurtful and every bit as destructive as my H saying to me that it should be as important to me as it is to him. It is equally unfair.
Valid points and very well put by both of you. Unfortunately, it's unsolvable. What comes first, the chicken or the egg? Meet her needs then she'll meet yours. No, her first. Meet his needs then he'll meet yours. No, him first. Unless you are a "daring" spouse and you have an appreciative and reciprocal spouse it ain't gonna happen. At least you can say you tried.
You missed the critical sentence in my above diatribe.
Quote: The challenge for both he and I is making room and making time for EVERYONE'S passions because we are valued and loved for the individuals we are.
I think this is the challenge of any marriage, and if you get into the 'you go first, no, you go first,' then you've introduced a 'control' issue that quickly consumes EVERYONE'S needs.
I think the biggest, BIGGEST issue confronting most LDs is the fact that they either ignore, or truly do not understand everything that CeMar explained above about HDs.
I think the biggest, BIGGEST issue confronting most HDs is accepting the fact their spouse does not derive the same emotional/physical fulfillment from passionate physical encounters, regardless of the form, as they do.
These are opposite ends of the spectrum.
But you need a weight on each end to achieve balance. The trick is moving those weights as close to the middle as you can, and still maintain balance. This involves moving toward the center, together, with the same relative speed. Any fluctuation in movement or speed is going to throw the balance one way or the other.
You can argue til the cows come home... 'you're going too fast, no, you're moving too slow!!' But that does not erase the fact that, in order to meet in the middle with the least amount of resistance or seasawing, you have to do it together, and at the same relative speed.
In this scenario, if balance is the goal (i.e, having a good marriage), it doesn't matter who the hell is right or wrong, good or bad, whatever, you WILL NOT achieve balance unless you do it together. And THAT is the biggest hurdle of all, hm?
Wow, Corri, you really put that well. I think I'll print that out.
What you are describing is what the books say is the state of a mature marriage -- an acceptance of each other the way you are, an appreciation for your differences, a holding-on to oneself. Love in action. Thanks.
Hi guys, I haven't been able to read or post in a few days. It has been a rollercoaster here. I need some feedback please.
I've told ya'll that my H has Crohn's and it has changed the sex dymamics of our relationship over the past several years. It used to be great and now is not.
I had to work 3 hours away from home Wednesday and he had a Dr. appointment and I met him at the Dr. that afternoon. He is doing ok and they decided to not take Prednisone anymore. I had shopped with him the weekend before and he purchased a Medium size shirt where he had always wore a large size shirt. I told his dr. that I was concerned about him "shrinking". (If it wasn't me I would be LOL but it isn't that funny when its me!)
I told the Dr. that I had read that Testosterone levels could cause a man to lose strength and size and that I was concerned for his health. Bless my H's little heart he took it from there and ask the Dr. about sexual side effects of the Rx's he takes and for Crohn's patients in general. The dr. said of course that was a natural part of Crohns and aging. My H just turned 49 so he certainly isn't old. Anyway the dr. suggested he try a new drug that is like Viagra - it starts with a C and I saw it advertised on TV today - just can't remember the name right now. He wrote out a Rx for it. We traveled back to our hometown in seperate vehicles because I had been at work so we did not discuss this right away.
We stopped at a restaurant and he said that he was doing this for me and to have the Rx filled the next day (that disturbs me kinda - shouldn't it be for him too?.
I filled the Rx the next day on Thursday. When he got home we were actually alone - both of our younger children were still at school for basketball games that we were about to go to. I showed him the RX and he said that it was too much money (not covered by insurance)and that we would not be filling that again!
I was stunned. I know that I am super sensitive to stuff like this but I was none too happy when he said that! I don't remember everything that was said - not too much at that moment - but I said a few minutes later that it was very important to me and didn't seem to be to him and he got quiet annoyed and said "here we go again with that cr*p."
I just shut up then. I was ready to boil over and thought to myself "Reel in Sister!"
He came in the kitchen a little later and then asked me "what do I do with this Rx? How do I take it?"
He usually does that after he sees that he has given me the reds - acts like nothing was said or happened.
I said, "Figure it out for yourself. I don't care at this point. I am sick to death of worrying about this, being pissed off over this, begging for you to make love to me - heck, I don't care if we ever have sex again - we will both be like neutered cats up in this house!"
I kinda went over the deep end and I was pretty upset. He said he was just kidding with me and he was the one that asked the Dr. for it and called to ask if I had filled the Rx. I told him that I have known him for years I that he didn't seem to be teasing and I didn't think it was too funny - there was nothing funny about it to me.
We went to our daughters game and talked on the way there. He said that I needed to cut him some slack that he did not choose to be this way. I told him that I did cut him lots of slack but I didn't feel like he was cutting me slack on something he knows I am very sensitive about.
When we went to the next game he did tease me about it in a way that I KNEW he was teasing - such as he had never paid for it before and now he was having to pay for it and we teased about it.
We didn't discuss when he would take the medication but Friday night he said he was taking it. I had traveled 3 hours away that day too and was kinda tired after driving for 6 hours and working that day.
This Rx is supposed to be effective for 36 hours. Saturday morning he woke me up to ML. We ML 3 times Saturday and once Sunday morning. The sex was techically good - it almost always is - but it seems/feels to me that while he said it was great - it is not real passion like I used to get from him.
It didn't really feel like duty sex but like he was doing it just for me - not something he was doing for himself.
Does that make sense to ya'll? Sunday morning he said "Is sex all you think about?" I told him I still felt like I was 20 years old and my sex drive had not changed.
How can I explain this to ya'll? I guess the difference was when HE felt passion for me I knew it. He couldn't keep his hands off of me before - now we ML but I felt like he was doing it for me - not for the sheer pleasure of ML. I do know that he enjoyed it - I made sure that I did all of the things that I know that HE likes but I just felt like his heart wasn't in it.
I didn't get the feeling that he thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread and that he wanted to run out and get a 1000 of those little yellow pills. (I did!)
I know I must sound like a witch - that is the last thing I want to be. I miss the passion that we used to share - I miss the sexual games and tension that used to be between us.
I enjoyed ML to him and let him know. I told my son yesterday in front of his father that I was having a GREAT day and that nothing could upset me Saturday. I later told him that I felt like we were on our honeymoon. I tried to say and do all the things I could to let him know how much I love him and appreciate his willingness to try this Rx.
I guess I am afraid that he will not want to repeat this weekend. There are 4 more little yellow pills in the bottle but I will not ask him to take them.
When we had the angry words last Thursday I later told him after we had calmed down that if he did not want to take thim that I would understand. I left that up to him and I will not ask him about it.
I guess my point is that you can take the Rx and get the physical response that it is designed to do but if the passion is not there there is an important element missing. I think that is where the testosterone comes it. I want him to WANT me like I want him - like he used to want me. The "I can't wait to get you alone" kind of want me.
If I could give him an Rx that would bring back the passion I would give any amount of money for that.
Poe, help me out here. Am I expecting too much too soon?
Neicie, Has he had his testosterone checked? Is low T a possibility? I am surprised that the doc would jump right to erection pills without doing a blood test to see if there is something else going on too.
Cause like you said, you can make a person physically capable of marathon sex, but if the desire is still absent what in the world is the point??
Also, I had one other thought...maybe he was not fully "there" because he was nervous. You know, thinking "If I have these pills, she will be expecting this of me all the time." Some people just don't want to want, and it is a mystery why not.
